Episode 209: Name, Image, Likeness Jamboree
In this episode, Jessica Luther, Amira Rose Davis and Brenda Elsey break-down what is happening in the wake of college athletes finally being able to use their own name, image and likeness (NIL). They discuss what the new NIL rules have meant on the ground, what guidance (or lack thereof) academic institutions and the NCAA have provided and how racism, sexism and capitalism are already impacting who gets what. They also share their favorite NIL partnerships and who Burn It All Down would like to sponsor.
Then, they preview Amira's interview with Dr. Courtney Cox about recent events impacting Black women in media, academia and sport. Next, they torch all that needs to be burned from this week. After the flames, the torchbearers rise, including Torchbearer of the Week Zaila Avant-garde, the 2021 Scripps Spelling Bee champion and Guinness World Records holder for various basketball tricks. They wrap up the show with what's good in their lives and what they are watching in sports this week.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Links
NCAA name, image and likeness FAQ: What the rule changes mean for the athletes, schools and more: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31740112/rule-changes-mean-athletes-schools-more/
The endless argument at the center of college football: https://www.bannersociety.com/2019/10/4/18716003/college-football-amateurism-history/
International student-athletes face an NIL conundrum, and no one seems to have an answer: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31575978/international-student-athletes-face-nil-conundrum-seems-answer/
Women are being left behind amid NIL Senate Committee hearings and it’s ‘a slap in face of Title IX’ https://theathletic.com/2655834/2021/06/17/jennings-women-are-being-left-behind-amid-nil-senate-committee-hearings-and-its-a-slap-in-face-of-title-ix
How female athletes and women’s sports can benefit from NIL: https://www.tampabay.com/sports/gators/2021/07/06/how-female-athletes-and-womens-sports-can-benefit-from-nil
Blackhawks’ investigation into sexual-assault allegations raises questions of credibility and transparency: https://theathletic.com/2680415/2021/06/29/blackhawks-pick-for-investigating-sexual-assault-allegations-raises-questions-of-credibility-and-transparency
Transcript
Jessica: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. I'm Jessica, and today I'm joined by Amira and Brenda. On this week's show, we're going to talk about name, image, and likeness for collegiate athletes in the United States. Then we'll burn things that deserve to be burned, highlight the torchbearers who are giving us hope, let you know what's good in our worlds, and tell you what we're watching this week. But first, before we get into all of that, we are right smack in the middle of summer, and I want to know your favorite song to listen to in the summer – or maybe the song that reminds you best of summer, however you define your favorite summer song. Or maybe just tell me your song of this summer. However you want to do it. Brenda.
Brenda: I think very few people will know this, but for those rare niche fellow Ween lovers out there, it's called Don't Laugh (I Love You). And it just reminds me of summer, of laying in the grass and maybe doing psychedelics in college – or not. [laughs] And it's so fun! So if you don't know it, get out there and try it out.
Jessica: I will be searching that as soon as we were finished here.
Brenda: It's so fun.
Jessica: Amira.
Amira: Yeah, like any cookout song that you play at a cookout – there’s actually a Spotify playlist called The Cookout, but last year it became The Cook-In. So, Before I Let Go is like a quintessential Black cookout song or really like Black function song. It’s Maze, Frankie Beverly, and Beyoncé did a remix to it – that was very contentious, but I am in the camp of amazing. Mostly it's not really even her, it's Tay Keith, because he does this breakdown where he does the instrumental of Candy in Before I Let Go, and it's just like two Black summer anthems combined. It’s genius, and it reminds me of like a good plate of food and some spades and the sun. And I'm ready for all of that. Yes.
Jessica: Yes. So, mine for the last few years, it's been Carly Rae Jepsen’s Cut To The Feeling, which was my song of the summer in 2017. It just makes me think of light and warmth. There's just something about that song, and that it's just summer to me, it's so hard to describe, but there is just something about certain sounds where you're like, this is summer. I'll listen to it in the winter because it makes me feel warmer. You know what I mean?
Jessica: At 12:00am on July 1st, college athletes in the United States were finally able – for the first time – to do whatever they wanted with their name, image and likeness, which for some means signing endorsement deals with companies, but for others it means having a monetized YouTube channel or making money by giving guitar lessons or having GoFundMes to support people in their lives. It is wild to think about what student athletes in the US could not do before. We've talked a lot about so-called amateurism, or shamateurism as we called it way back in episode 48 in 2018. I definitely think if you want a full picture of how we got to this precise moment, your best option is to go back and listen to episode 200. But I've got two historians with me, so I cannot resist to get into our talk about this brave new world of NIL. Let's go back, Brenda. What's the quick and dirty version of how we got here?
Brenda: I guess what I want to emphasize is that it really hadn't always been this way at all. The NCAA never started out as a purely amateur organization or one to discipline or regulate monetary benefits of college athletics. Amateurism began to be used to denounce better teams like the Carlisle Indian industrial school that Jim Thorpe played with by Ivys, basically. So despite the fact that Ivy League players had enormous economic advantages over other student athletes, there was still this idea that they were going to “level the playing field,” which I would like to say just meant give advantage to schools that were already really advantaged.
And in 1906, when the NCAA was founded, it was because of deaths in college football. The whole enterprise was being criticized as too violent. So it was there to set rules and supposedly to protect players. But still, lots of colleges were paying athletes through the 1950s in various ways. And so it's very linked to desegregation, very linked to patrolling and policing and keeping college athletics as enormously profitable for the wealthy white men that ran them. And there's just, I mean, I can go through the details of different types of, you know…Like you said, episode 200, of different court cases and different ways in which this is about breaking labor. But that's kind of the quick and dirty of it.
Jessica: And Amira, what's happened over the last, I don't know, 10 years?
Amira: Basically what we've seen is mounting challenges, legally, and then in the kind of court of public opinion, about the idea of amateurism itself. Whether we're talking about Ed O'Bannon, where people are saying, hey, you're making video games, and those people look exactly like us, but we're not profiting. And so this has been a foundation that has been building, building, building, and then we've kind of broke it open in the last year and a half. And so what really got the ball moving on where we are exactly right now is legislation in California they passed in September of 2019 that basically said this is about to be legal, name, image, and likeness. And this is what really puts the NCAA on notice, that this was going to be a threat. And what we've seen for the last year and a half is more and more states passed similar legislation, and the NCAA, it's like they were stopping the dam of water–
Jessica: With their finger!
Amira: With their finger. [laughs] Right. They're trying to plug up each little spot where it was breaking open – until July 1, which is basically when they conceded that it had gone through enough states that there was no way for them to stop the inevitable, that this was going to be nationwide, individual states allowing people to cash in on name, image, and likeness. And they had a deadline to pass it on July 1st before it was going to be a free for all. And so they kind of put out these last minute regulations, which as we'll discuss are evolving. It's a gray area. It's a little bit of chaos. But that has really brought us to where we are.
Jessica: Yeah. And now here we are, finally. NIL, right? Before we move on to talk about what this all means in practice, friend of the show Tammi Gaw, a licensed attorney and an athletic trainer who has long advocated for the rights of college athletes, gives us a rundown of these NIL changes.
Tammi: Everyone talking about NIL needs to stop saying that it is now “legal" for college athletes to monetize their NIL. It was never “illegal.” And that language matters. It was previously against NCAA rules for college athletes to make money on NIL, but it had nothing to do with legality or laws, and using carceral language like legal or illegal is not only problematic when we discuss these issues, but it continues the paternalistic trend of the way that we talk about what college athletes do and do not deserve. Every other student demographic has been able to enjoy this basic economic right, and to say that it is now “legal” for athletes misstates the arbitrary restrictions that the NCAA has put on college athletes for decades.
Jessica: In practice, college athletes can make money off of their name, image, and likeness without worrying about the NCAA punishing them or their schools. They're just like all other students now in this regard! [laughs] But there are some wrinkles here when it comes to how this will actually work in practice on the ground. For example, international students who are also collegiate athletes are not in the clear, it seems, to cash in. Student visas to the US do not allow international students to work for more than 20 hours per month. Robert Seiger, a lawyer who specializes in immigration in sports, told Insider, “When legislation establishing payment for student athletes is passed, it changes a foreign athlete’s visa classification from student to paid employee. This creates huge potential for conflict between students, schools, and the federal government.”
And this is significant because nearly 13% of Division I athletes and 7% of Division II athletes were international students in 2020. So we're talking about students who, if they run afoul of the US government, could be deported. Visa laws could be rewritten, but until then international students in particular have to be really careful how they navigate this at this point. Brenda, what are other on the ground issues that you're thinking about?
Brenda: I know a lot of other people have written about this, but I just keep wondering how this is gonna basically screw women athletes over. I'm just sure that are going to find a way [laughs] in terms of Title IX and distribution and if it's going to end up…I know on the surface it seems like it shouldn’t, right? It's name, image and likeness.
Jessica: Yeah. It just seems like each individual has their own relationship to it.
Brenda: Yeah. I feel as though there's going to be some way in which universities will use this to chip away at equity in terms of funding college athletics.
Jessica: Ahh. Like, they're going to argue that women are getting money in some other way or something? I wouldn't put it past them.
Brenda: Right. Well, no, not only do I not put it past them, I'm sure that their legal minds are churning with the possibilities of how they can [laughs] give less money to women. I'm just sure of it. And so I guess I’m anticipating that we're going to see some arguments, that once these floodgates open that “Title IX is not necessary.” In terms of athletics, I'm sure they're going to take things like, oh, it was never meant to be about sports anyway. I'm also interested in how Div II and III works. I mean, they don't have scholarships. Is it going to be a way in which we see some sports that haven't been in the mainstream highlighted? Are there opportunities there for really focusing on support for special abilities athletes? Are there ways in which smaller schools can benefit from this? I don't know. I mean, I see that as kind of exciting. So those are the things kind of just pinballing around in my brain.
Jessica: So Amira, as you mentioned, the NCAA is basically absent on guidance at this point, because of course, when are they ever actually worthwhile and doing their job? There's no federal laws yet on this. So, part of the issue to how this works in practice with NIL rules is that they're not the same in every state, right?
Amira: Precisely. And there's two levels on this. One, they're not the same in every state. And so part of what the NCAA was tasked with, if you know, like, right, if they ever did their jobs, was like trying to make some uniform thing in advance of it being passed in all these states, because it was going to be harder to manage. And so now here we are where you have legislation moving through 27 states at this point, right? Handfuls that are passed, others that are getting ready to pass their own things with their own stipulations about what that looks like. And the thing that has been ridiculous about the NCAA's arguments in front of the Supreme court for a range of issues, including their most recent defeat there, is that they're always like, “this is going to threaten our whole business structure.” Right, because you're not paying people. And the response to you is, “this is a monopoly because you're trying to standardize everything.”
And what everybody's always telling the NCAA is each school, each conference, they're going to be able to still structure their own things. And that's what we're seeing is happening, and I actually think maybe what we should think about, at least in the back of our minds, is the way that this moment is not just a threat to the NCAA because it troubles their business model or their bottom line, but really it's usefulness, because if you're not doing anything at this point and other people have been able to shape this going forward, then you're just being exposed for the old, outdated power hungry hag that you are as an organization.
Brenda: I have a question for you, Amira, being at a really big athletics university. When the NCAA says, okay, if there's not state legislation we're going to devolve this issue to university policy. What do you think that could mean?
Amira: Well, we’re already seeing it kind of work in a few different ways. Ironically, those first states like California that were on the ball with name, image and likeness legislation, actually now have more restrictions because they've already had frameworks in place, and the schools and the athletes in states that weren't in the process or had legislation still moving through, because there's not any guidance right now, they actually are seeing less restrictions to what happened as soon as July 1 hit. And we're seeing that on a school by school basis as well. So, BYU for instance–
Jessica: Everyone found out they were Mormon this week, it felt like. [laughter]
Amira: Listen, exactly. But BYU very clearly, very loudly, said to their athletes that all of their name, image and likeness deals have to still adhere to the BYU honor code, which we know prohibits many things. And so just a taste of what that might mean if you were an athlete at BYU: no companies that have alcohol or tobacco or gambling, certainly not anything about sex and god forbid homosexual at all, coffee–
Jessica: Yeah.
Brenda: Coffee?! [laughs] Oh my god.
Amira: Yeah.
Jessica: Caffeine, yeah. Isn't it a caffeine thing?
Brenda: What about energy drinks?
Jessica: They have to be careful.
Amira: I think that is a really slippery slope for them. I think that they probably would not be able to do that.
Brenda: Oh my…
Amira: And so that is something that we've seen, right? Is schools saying, well, just a reminder, here's actually what this still means, because we do have our university policy. And so I think that that's what part of the kind of gray area has been, is that it's been both this opportunity of opening the floodgates and then…I’m trying to picture this, something like you open it and then people kind of chasing behind, like, trying to cordon people off and organize something that's already happening.
Jessica: This makes me nervous for the students. I feel like the way we're going to learn where the lines are, are the students who step over them.
Brenda: Absolutely
Jessica: You explaining that, I was like, oh shit. I'm nervous for the students who do something not understanding that they're going to break either university policy, state policy, NCAA policy. And as we know with the NCAA and universities and whatever, they'll throw certain student athletes under a bus if they need to.
Amira: And I think that's such an important point because what we've seen now is compliance offices being like, “Don't forget to check with compliance.” And so I think that what we have seen is certain schools try to get ahead of it with programs and compliance offices and stuff like that, and a lot of schools that are kind of like, uhh, still plugging the water, still plugging the water. And in the meantime, that gray area, like you said, it can prove lucrative for some people, but it's also going to set some people up for some really nasty, I think, cases.
Jessica: I do want to think about this guidance maybe in a more concrete way, like what it could look like. And it's really great and useful to have two university professors with me, that think about this all the time, work with student athletes. And I'd like to get your thoughts and what kind of guidance you'd like to see, or maybe what kind of guidance you have seen so far that you like. Amira.
Amira: What I've seen here at Penn State – and they were very prepared for this – they actually announced the creation of a new program called STATEment. If you picture the wording, STATE is like completely capital because you know, Penn State, huh? Anyways. So, it's a program that's about building impact, and it's on entrepreneurship and education. And so it's partnering with alumni and the business school and an app for student athletics. It's actually not so different from what is available to most Penn State students in terms of marketing and the alumni network and whatever, but usually student athletes were precluded from this, right? And so this is not only opening access in terms of these kinds of job preparation stuff, but it's specifically looking at college athletes and saying what alumni networks is most useful for them. And so this is going to build on life skills, education. And part of the education focus will provide classes and workshops on brand-building, social media presence and responsibility, financial literacy, media training, values and interest assessments, DEI work, industry and alumni relationships.
The thing that I like about this program is that it also is connecting to local resources. So, we have something down here called like the LaunchBox, which is like an entrepreneurial space where people with ideas get to go downtown State College, and you are tied to other people with resources and it's like an incubator for ideas and opportunities. It's good to see, at least here at Penn State, that what they're rolling out for college athletes is extending a lot of the services that were already applicable and available to non-athletes, and to see it now applicable and available and accessible and all of that stuff to college athletes and really tailored to them and their experience and what could benefit them in the long run, is heartening.
Jessica: I like that. That's good. All right. Bren, what are you thinking as far as guidance at this point?
Brenda: I am looking at what happens at places like Rutgers, when the faculties step in and when faculty governance is enforced made me feel like this is really the only way to go. When it comes with contingent labor of students, of professors, period. I trust faculty's investment in a university. I trust faculty governance to help out in terms of creating guidelines that are equitable and good for students. And I don't believe that that's going to happen anywhere. I think this is run by donors and pipe dreams of micro-financing the university and micro-financing programs – and I know that's a little abstract probably for our listeners, but y'all got Google. The way that this has been is way too corporate to begin with, and I just…I’m an abolitionist about it. I don't care anymore about college athletics as something to preserve or save. I would like it to go away, period. I don't think it's good for students. I don't think it's real.
Jessica: Well, when you say that, they're definitely not going to let faculty participate. [laughter]
Brenda: Yeah. Right, right. I mean, I was on the faculty committee to get rid of football at Hofstra and make a medical school instead because we want to better brains and not hurt them. I don't have any faith that universities that are more and more driven by corporate dreams and vocational programs and business schools are places where we build democratic practices and knowledge and society. And that's the mission of the university. And it's not this. So, I’m glad they're getting paid, of course I'm glad they're getting paid. [laughs] Of course I want students to be able to unionize, to be able to exercise their labor rights. But when it comes right down to it, I don't want it at the university at all.
Jessica: Yeah.
Brenda: Those facilities should be for all students. They're paying with their fees for giant locker rooms, and they're claiming, “no, they're paid by donors!” Well, bullshit. And like, all the loans and all the money for that are paid by state taxes, are paid by student fees, and I just…I’m done.
Jessica: That's a nice transition into the warts. [Brenda laughs] And I do think that we do need to cover, like, even if and when there's clear guidance in some form, there are bigger forces that we know too well that are going to shape how a lot of this works – namely, capitalism, racism, sexism – which tend to win in the end in this society. Amira, will you talk to us about some of this underbelly that we're already seeing?
Amira: Yeah. In many ways the modern university has already been kind of leaning into some of this stuff in ways that are just…Blah. Like, I don't know if you've ever read anything about like the Baylor influencer twins – please read Anne Helen Petersen on them. I'm fascinated by them. But they were basically YouTube sensations, twins, that fit the model of…You know, capitalism loves them: blonde, blue eyed, et cetera, right? And so they started a YouTube channel when they were in high school and as they went through their college decisions, went to Baylor, and if you look on their Instagram posts you'll see that it literally says, you know, “paid for by Baylor University.” They are literally influencer twins.
And from a range of things that they do, whether they're walking on the quad or…I mean, one of the things that we've seen right away is that those very familiar market forces shaped by all those things Jessica said are right there raring to go at 12:01. One of the biggest first deal signs were by the twins from Fresno state – blonde hair, blue eyes, all that – signed a huge deal with Boost mobile, like that. And it’s like vultures…Some of them may be friendly vultures, but people circling, ready to then profit off of these people, right? How can we then book people? And when we're talking about this, it's like, yeah, we're giving you an opportunity to earn stuff, but it's because they're still extracting profit. It may not just be the NCAA now, it might be other people, but that's what's happening here.
And so I was really kind of tickled to see that Florida State's McKenzie Milton and D’Eriq king at Miami became co-founders of a platform called Dreamfield, and it's designed to organize booking live events for college athletes, whether they're doing autographs or meet and greets or speaking engagements. And then of course they also indicated that they were going to get into NFTs, which I still don't really understand, even though we did a whole episode about it. But it was kind of heartening to see that people were kind of prepared for knowing what was coming in terms of how the market works and that capitalism does not solve things. And so this is a labor win, but that doesn't mean that labor is then equitably compensated, et cetera.
And I think the place that I see this the most, and that probably pains me the most, is what our friend Joel Anderson called the Sharapova effect, which is that we know that the marketability and the logics of that – are you doing “gender appropriate” sports? Are you blonde or feminine or attractive conventionally, right? Like, what does that look like? Those are the places where you're going to see the most funding opportunities. This is why Sharapova dwarfed Serena in terms of endorsement deals, right? I talked to some Black women college athletes who called to say that it was really disheartening to watch the long thread of Barstool signees. Like, our excellence in our sport is not necessarily going to translate to those same abilities because capitalism, racism, sexism, all of that is still the foundation and the framework for what we're seeing.
Brenda: So just to your point Amira, one of the things that struck me when I was camped out with the Argentine national team in 2018, is that that was just the moment at which, because they had gone on strike, because they were so underfunded, but they were becoming kind of social media savvy and gaining some interest from the public, Nike had reached out to them and made these deals where, you know, basically they post their workouts on Instagram and in Nike gear, and then they get a certain amount of money. And it was pretty heartbreaking.
I mean, many of them were what you would think of as kind of classic butch lesbians, aesthetically. They loved the way they looked. They loved that particular aesthetic, and they told me just very forthrightly, “We have to change the way we look. I have to grow my hair out. I have to look a certain way when I'm working out to appeal to men.” And they’re in these very low cut shirts, you know – “I can't wear a sports bra. I have to wear a push-up bra when I'm training, because then I get more likes on Instagram.” And so, you know, social media perpetuates that all the time. And in terms of you saying that, it's just a concrete example of, you know, we know it's going to happen.
Jessica: Yeah. And I just want to mention when we're talking about underbellies and markets and forces that shape all of this; the NIL rights, obviously we're in favor of these students finally being able to function in this way, like every other student, but they don't actually affect university athletic departments and how they get their money and to whom they pay their money, right? Which means that the racial disparity between mainly white coaches, trainers, athletic directors, pocketing huge, enormous paychecks while a whole lot of Black athletes who do a vast majority of the labor of competing are still paid nothing, that just continues as it always has, right? That's a particular force that we still need to rectify. So, before we leave this topic, I want to do two short roundtables to round this all out. First, I want you all to give me your favorite NIL so far that you have seen. Bren?
Brenda: Trey Knox, the Arkansas receiver who made a deal with PetSmart because of his love of his dog, Blue. [Jessica laughs] This came from Jessica–
Jessica: It’s the sweetest! [laughs]
Brenda: So, I hat tip back to you, but I know, like…I don't want to perpetuate the whole you gotta be wholesome thing, but it’s–
Jessica: It’s real wholesome. [laughs]
Brenda: It’s wholesome and adorable. [laughs]
Jessica: Amira.
Amira: There is a football player at Marshall, who is a musician, who's been playing music since he was eight, and he does shows, but when he does shows he can't perform under his own name.
Jessica: Oh yeah, that's right!
Amira: Yeah. So he's been using the alias Lucky Bill. And so my favorite thing was the day after this passed, he tweeted and said, "I will be playing live shows this year as Will Ulmer,” which is his name. [Brenda laughs] Like, that announcement was my favorite kind of little thing.
Brenda: That’s a good one.
Jessica: That is really good. Lucky Bill. Mine is that an Arkansas barbecue franchise called Rights Barbecue has sponsored the entire Arkansas Razorbacks O-line, and I just loved how Ryan McGee, the ESPN reporter, put it on Twitter: “An Arkansas BBQ joint sponsoring the Hogs O-line is everything I dreamed NIL would be.” And I do just…The idea of all the smart, creative ways that these things are going to come together will be fun.
All right. And finally, if this little podcast here, Burn It All Down, had the means to sponsor a collegiate athlete, who should we get to wear our gear? And I'm going to go first. I don't have his particular person, but I was thinking I would want to do something like the tallest women's volleyball player, because, you know, shout out to the talls. Or maybe like sponsor the goalie of the Wisconsin hockey team because they're just so incredible, that team. I don't know. It's so fun to think about though. Amira?
Amira: All right. If we are going with somebody, I would go with a college athlete who's also a mom or otherwise parenting.
Jessica: Yes!
Amira: I think about people like Sarah Gordon. I think about the Iowa track runner and think about Mikalia at University of Houston who just actually completed the Olympic trials with her daughter in tow. But what is required of them to parent and work second jobs to pay for daycare and to do all these things while competing at the collegiate level and sometimes beyond that, it seems like that to me would be right on track of something that would feel like it does some good and goes a long way to help people who are already doing amazing things. So I would say college moms who are athletes would it be my ideal kind of sponsorship person to see, you know, if we could ease the load a little bit.
Jessica: Oh gosh, we're going to have to do this now. Brenda? [laughs]
Brenda: I want to do that. I want to do that so much. So, it's funny how we all kind of picked extensions of ourselves in some ways. [Amira laughs] Talls, college moms. Mine, as the oldest member of this podcast, would be someone like – and this was a few years ago – Joe Thomas, also a parent actually, a parent of Green Bay Packers linebacker, Joe Thomas Jr., was the oldest football player, I think athlete, in D1. A 55 year old, South Carolina State University running back. He went back to school, got his degree, lovely stories. So, talls, moms, olds. I feel like we can find something that encapsulates all three. [laughs]
Amira: A tall college mom, returning, a seasoned person at an HBCU.
Brenda: Yes! [claps]
Amira: If you're out there, BIAD…
Jessica: Yeah! Get in touch! [laughs]
Brenda: Totally.
Jessica: On Thursday's episode, Amira talks to Dr. Courtney Cox about being sick and tired of being sick and tired, and the week that was for Black women in sports, in both sports media and the academy.
Dr. Courtney Cox: And so for me, I'm sitting in holding a lot of space for all the feelings I could have of both victories, the small or big victories when we see Black women, non-binary athletes crushing it, or we see those entering into journalism or academia finding wins. I think that we can hold space for those while also saying that because these places were never built for us, we are always read in opposition to them. And so once we're right in opposition, then we have to then operate from that space. And so some of us…I don't think we even realize when we're doing it, because we always have to be on guard.
Jessica: Now it's time for everyone's favorite segment that we like to call the burn pile, where we pile up all the things we've hated this week in sports and set them aflame. Brenda, what is on your burn pile this week?
Brenda: The Mexican football federation is on my burn pile. Last month, the men's national team played a friendly against Iceland and also in the League of Nations against Costa Rica. In those games, the homophobic p-chant, which is akin to the F word – and I'm sorry to say it like that, but we can't normalize those words – was shouted. It happens every time an opposing goalkeeper touches the ball. The Mexican federation has been warned about this from FIFA for many, many years, at least 10. And what happened was the federation was actually finally given a real punishment. Now, this isn't the first or only punishment. Chile, in the lead up to 2018 for example, received very similar punishments for their crowd’s homophobic chants. And so they received 60,000 Swiss francs in fines, and then two qualifying matches that they could not play in front of a public, which is very important for the Mexican men's national team. Their fan base is probably the most dogged and beloved in the world, perhaps, and they really feel as though that helps them win.
This past week the Mexican federation inquired to FIFA if it was possible that their women's team could play with no fans, their qualifying match in September, as a way for the men to get out of their punishment. The Mexican women's team had a pretty poor showing against the United States the other week. They had a bad game, a tough game. They've been underfunded. It's ridiculous. These people are sin vergüenza. They are without shame. They are shameless. And to ask women to foot the punishment of men…Like, I don't know what to say other than burn.
All: Burn.
Jessica: Amira. What do you want to torch?
Amira: I don't know. Could it just be like a–
Jessica: Yes. It can be. [Brenda laughs]
Amira: Like, little kindlings. Okay. So first and foremost, I know that last week you did a full episode on these pandemic games, but just to see that spectators aren't going to be allowed, to see a state of emergency go into effect, to see people like Michael Andrew, who's not vaccinated, just admit, again, “No, I'm not going to be vaccinated. I'm not going vaccinated,” at a time where all of this is happening, and the Delta variants on the rise. Like, all of those things I want to add up. And then of course you have Sha’carri and the ongoing kind of fallout of her drug use, which a lot of people were hoping that they would still put her on the 4 x 100 team because the way that it works is that the result that was invalidated was her hundred meter race, which means that she wasn't qualified for that event to go. But there's nothing stopping them from putting her in the pool for the relay, and her suspension would be over by that time.
But they made a statement that they basically said that they were not going to include her in the relay, and while they want to help her and support her and help her get help and all this stuff, that they thought that everybody was under the same rules and that they would be treating her somehow they would be unfair to other athletes to include her. And that's why they were leaving her off. And the response to that is simply okay, cite the law that you are changing. Cite the rule that you were bending to accommodate her on the team. There's not an answer to that. It wasn't actually equal treatment, right? Like, you wouldn't have been doing anything for her that wasn't already there, which is that she's in the pool. And so actually it feels like your refusal to select her is that you want to continue to send a message and continue to discipline her, even though there's nothing preventing you from letting her race.
It was just like another kind of unfortunate layer that feels frustrating, certainly, about it. Just feel like there's all these little things that continue to happen for themes that we keep talking about. And it's like, I don't know how many more ways you can say, like, you know, this is dangerous to have a pandemic games, or like, stop treating Black women like crap, or like, fix your damn weed policies. Like, all of these things, I'm almost hoarse from screaming, you know, metaphorically about this shit. So, all these little kindlings, throw them together. I mean, this is what we do every week anyways, and it turns into bonfires. But that's where I am this week. It's not even one thing, but it's like death by a million cuts, and I want to just fucking burn it.
Jessica: All right. I’m up. A content note for our listeners, I'm going to be discussing sexual assault, so feel free to fast forward three minutes or so past this if you aren't up for that right now. And I'll just say that this whole story makes me really emotional, so that’s a good barometer for you. Last month, TSN’s Rick Westhead reported that in 2010 the Chicago NHL team's senior management refuse to file a police report against the team's video coach after two players came forward to say the coach had sexually assaulted them and requested the team’s executives to contact the sex crimes division of the Chicago police about this coach. One of those two players has now sued the organization, saying the team ignored their reports and requests. According to Westhead, the player says that the video coach Brad Aldrich sent him inappropriate text messages and threatened him physically, financially and emotionally if he did not engage in sexual activity. The Athletic corroborated this a week later. According to Mark Lazerus, Katie Strang and Scott Powers, another former teammate told them, “Every guy on the team knew about it. Every single guy on the team knew.”
Aldrich left the team after that 2010 season. In 2012, Aldrich abruptly left his job at Miami University in Ohio after only four months because he was “under suspicion of unwanted touching of an adult male.” WBEZ in Chicago has confirmed that two people reported Aldrich for sexual assault while he was at Miami. Aldrich then moved to a boys high school team in Houghton, Michigan. From The Athletic, “In December, 2013, after his second stint as a volunteer assistant coach there, he pleaded guilty to charges of criminal sexual conduct with a teenager. Aldrich was sentenced to nine months in a Houghton county jail. A second lawsuit was filed last month by Aldrich’s victim in Houghton alleging that the Chicago NHL team gave Aldrich positive references when he left the team and failed to report the allegations of abuse from 2010.”
WBEZ notes that in conjunction with this case, police actually investigated multiple sexual assault misconduct claims against Aldrich, including claims of child sexual abuse. WBEZ says there are now seven people who say Aldrich harmed them. Back to the NHL team – they’re going to pay for their own investigation into what happened, though what exactly they need to investigate seems unclear, because what happened seems really straightforward here. The attorney for the former player who is suing the team told Rick Westhead atTSN, “The team has been lying all along, denying in court documents that the sexual misconduct even took place. So why would we have any faith now in an investigation that has been paid for by the team? Also, there was no assurance from anyone, not at the team, not at the NHL, that the results of the team's investigation will be made public.”
Here's my takeaway: this should be a bigger story. People in lots of places should lose their jobs. We, as a society, need to stop pretending that we care at all about this type of violence, and instead actually do the hard work to show that we care. Everyone likes to imagine that they would do the right thing if they heard someone was a victim of sexual violence, despite all the evidence that exists to indicate that most people do the easiest thing, which is nothing. The systems around this are set up to allow for that to be the easiest choice, and so people make it, over and over again. There are no systems of accountability, not even moral ones in this society. It’s all talk and bravado, and all evidence shows that there is no action to back it up. I feel so terrible for all of these victims. Shame on the Chicago NHL team and everyone after that who did the least when they found out about Aldrich. I just want to burn this whole thing down. Burn.
All: Burn.
Jessica: Now to highlight people carrying the torch and changing sports culture. First up, we have some champions we want to recognize.
Brenda: The Argentine national men’s soccer team, who won the Copa America by beating Brazil in a nail biting 1-0 final at Maracana stadium, making it the first time since 1993 that Argentina has won the Copa America, and Lionel Messi's first major senior tournament victory. It'd be hard to overstate how happy I am.
Amira: Okay. May I just say that this celebratory moment of torchbearers of the week is really a moment to celebrate and love on our favorite football professors? Both our own Brenda Elsey and her celebration of Argentina and Messi, but also our friend, professor Peter Alegi at Michigan State, who finally got to watch it Italy bring it home, bring it back to Rome. And so Italy did win the Euros. They defeated England 3-2 on PKs after being tied 1-1 through extra time. Of course now the shadow that hangs over this match has to be named, which is Rashy and Sancho and Saka all missed critical PKs and predictably as ever were subject and are still being subject to a torrent of racist abuse to all the Black players in England. From us at Burn It All Down, we stand with y'all. We are wrapping our arms around you. And also congratulations to Italy, and we're going to hold space for both things.
Jessica: Ash Barty, the reigning number one tennis player in the world, won her first Wimbledon championship and her second grand slam title, defeating Karolina Pliskova in three sets. Brenda, who is our veteran of the week?
Brenda: Formiga, who was called up for her seventh Olympics for the Brazilian women's national team. That is every iteration of the tournament, which began in 1996.
Jessica: Formiga is Olympic soccer, [laughter] is what I think you're saying to us.
Brenda: I am.
Jessica: Our prodigy of the week is 15 year old Olivia Moultrie, who became the youngest player in NWSL history after making her regular season debut for the Portland Thorns this past week. Amira, who is our comeback of the week?
Amira: Yeah. Aleia Hobbs, who was named to the 4 x 100 US relay team. Hobbs, who had run the third fastest time among US sprinters, this year was disqualified during the semis of the hundred trials after the judges controversially said she'd false-started. If you remember this clip, there was barely movement, and then there was no warning given before she was taken off the track. She was sobbing. It was awful. They let her run in the final, but on the furthest line. It wasn't a good race. She didn't make the team – until now. She will go to Tokyo after all, as a member of the relay team.
Jessica: Can I get a drum roll, please? Our torchbearer this week is, well, you know what? This week I'm going to let her introduce herself.
Zaila Avant-garde: My name is Zaila Avante-garde, and I'm 14 years old, so I have a Guinness World Record for the most bounce juggles in one minute with four basketballs. I don't remember the number, but it's a lot. Then I have one for most dribbles in 30 seconds with four basketballs. The main one I have is just like the crowning achievement of all basketball Guinness World Records is the most basketballs dribbled in one minute simultaneously, which is 6 balls.
Jessica: Zaila is from Harvey, Louisiana, a top basketball prospect. Please go watch her videos. All of her handles are @basketballasart. A fan of astronaut Mae Jemison, and now the first ever Black American to win the famed Scripps Spelling Bee. Here is that winning moment from Thursday night.
Spelling Bee host: …flowers with imbricated petals: Murraya.
Zaila Avant-garde: Murraya. Does this word contain the English name, Murray, which could be the name of a comedian, or just the English name in general?
Spelling Bee host: [laughs] I don't see that here.
Second host: Bill Murray made the spelling bee. [laughs]
Zaila Avant-garde: Murraya. M-U-R-R-A-Y-A.
Moderator: That is correct!
Jessica: We’re so excited about Zaila and everything she has in front of her, be it a job at NASA or a collegiate and/or WNBA career or whatever else she decides to do. Congratulations Zaila Avant-garde.
Amira: I literally love the little girl so much. [Jessica laughs] Everybody go watch Akeelah and the Bee, because it just gives me…I’m going to watch that and bask in the beautiful Black girl magic of spelling when I can't even spell the word “and” right on text messages.
Jessica: All right, what's good with y’all? Brenda, what’s good with you?
Brenda: The Copa America is good with me, and this is really snarky…It’s been a wonderful tournament. I love that Amira texted me in terms of moral support during Messi's bloody sock game versus Columbia. I'm happy to see these two teams. It's the way it was organized. It was orchestrated. It was probably dirty, whatever. I'm still happy. [laughter] They’re the best two teams, Brazil and Argentina. They should be playing each other. But my snarky what's good is how well Neymar's played because Alexi Lalas and all the stupid commentators in English – which I don’t even listen to, but I was forced to watch snippets of – love to talk about him diving. Neymar is 145 pounds. I just want to put that out there. Do you know what it’s like when those defenders are running full speed at Neymar?
He really does…I understand he dives on occasion, that's part of his game. If he beats you at it, ha ha ha, that's the way the game works. Alexi Lalas up there on his high horse morally philosophizing in some third grade way is so aggravating for me, and so to see Neymar play s well…Again, as soon as Lalas is like, "He's a joke!” he then scores this beautiful goal, and it’s happened repeatedly.
Amira: Can we note that this was absolutely Brenda’s second choice for a burn pile that we’re now getting a mini burn disguised as a what's good?
Brenda: Correct. Correct. Now it's being twisted into my what’s good, [laughter] because the better he plays the dumber those people look. And that's my what’s good.
Jessica: We're all here for that. That is good.
Brenda: I’ll just say, I’ve wept through most of this episode, I’m feeling really emotional. So, my what's bad I’m trying to turn into what's good.
Jessica: Okay. Okay, good.
Brenda: You see that process? [Jessica laughs]
Amira: I have enjoyed for years, Brenda, watching you in what’s good really exercise optimism, [Brenda laughs] and it's a muscle that you have been conditioning, and I like that you're on a transformation, a journey – not a fully journey, but like for 30 seconds at the end of each episode trying to be and find and name a good, and I just want to recognize your progress because you are getting very good at finding goodness.
Brenda: Thank you, Amira. That’s gonna make me cry again. [laughter]
Jessica: Amira, what's your what's good?
Amira: Well now I’m going to cry.
Jessica: We’re all crying today.
Amira: In three days we’re moving, and it's here.
Jessica: This is my what’s good.
Amira: [laughs] And it hasn’t felt real because it's been chaotic, but they came with our little packing pod and our stuff is on our way to Austin–
Jessica: That’s where I am.
Amira: That’s where Jessica is. I have immediately hit the ground running and pre-planned a million things and if you haven’t seen my Instagram I’m full on the Austin FC board. We have gear, I'm part of Los Verdes, I'm in the supporters group, the boys have all their stuff. I tried to get Samari a pride jersey because it's so cute, and she was like, “Just because I like that wouldn’t mean that I like sports." So, we’re working on that. [Jessica laughs] But by and large, we are on our way to Texas and it's been hard to say goodbye. I have attachment issues, so saying bye to my friends here has been definitely difficult. But knowing going to a space that there's such warm, open and welcome, inviting arms from friends and family waiting for us in Austin and in Texas as a whole, it feels like…Agh. I put my away message up – that’s my other what’s good – for the year.
Brenda: Hell yeah.
Amira: And then also an away message til mid-July that I was like, maybe I should just chill a little bit because I’m trying to move across the country with three kids and a dog. And I finished my last physical therapy session! Not that I’m fully healed, but I'm just done right now. But I'm cleared to basically be back at it. So, these are the things that are happening. After this I'm going to go take an In the Heights ride and sob while I do it, and just kind of channel my Brenda and get all my tears out. But mostly my what's good is that we’re heading home.
Brenda: No me digas. [Amira laughs]
Jessica: Well, my what's good is that Amira is coming here. There was some point last week where it hit me and I texted her, “Oh my god,” like, you're moving here for real! [Amira laughs] Like, in a week! I’m so excited. I feel like our children are gonna get along because one thing that’s good for me is Aaron and I keep going to the Austin FC matches but we leave our kid at home because he wants nothing to do with it. [Amira laughs] This week we went to the first home loss against LAFC, but we did sit six rows up from the pitch behind one of the goals, so that was super fun even if we lost. I love it. The other thing that's good for me this week: Aaron and I have returned to the swimming pool to do laps, and I just love it. It’s like meditation. I was telling Aaron last night, like, I focus on the breathing, I can’t really hold thoughts while I’m swimming other than focusing on getting my elbow up and my hand in and turning my body and all that sort of stuff, like, it’s exactly what meditation is supposed to be that I can never do. And it works when I'm swimming. So, that has been very good for me.
So, this week we are watching the NBA finals: game four is Wednesday night, game five if necessary would be Saturday. The WNBA All Star game is Wednesday night at 7pm eastern. It will feature WNBA All Stars versus the USA Basketball women's national team. Legends Lisa Leslie and Tina Thompson will serve as co-head coaches of team WNBA. In the US the game will air on ESPN. Then the W is on an Olympics break until Sunday, August 15th, so get your fix on Wednesday night. The NWSL has games this weekend including the Houston Dash facing off against the North Carolina Courage at 7pm eastern on Saturday on Paramount Plus, and the Orlando Pride visiting the Portland Thorns on Sunday at 10:30pm eastern on Twitch – which reminds me, you need to go watch Sydney Leroux’s stoppage goal from the last Orlando Pride game, thanks you. And for our soccer fans who want more tournaments after watching the Copa and the Euros, catch the Gold Cup, which is now in group stage.
That’s it for this episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. Follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Listen, subscribe and rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn, wherever you listen to podcasts. For show links and transcripts, check out our website, burnitalldownpod.com. You can also find a link to our merch on our Bonfire store on our website. And thank you to our patrons – your support means the world. If you want to become a sustaining donor to the show, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. Burn on, and not out.