Episode 252: EQUAL PAY!!!
In this episode, Lindsay Gibbs, Shireen Ahmed and Brenda Elsey discuss the historic equal pay CBA for the USWNT and USMNT. But first, they hold space for the victims of the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas.
Then, the team recaps why the new collective bargaining agreement between the US Soccer Federation and the US Women's National Team and US Men's National Team is so historic and how they got to this agreement. They discuss USSF's new relationship with the NWSL and MLS, new distribution of prize money and how the US is now contributing to a global ripple effect of equal pay that has both made so much progress and has to much more to go. They also discuss other soccer news, including the incredible UEFA Women's Champs League final viewership numbers and the horrible sexual abuse and harassment of referees and minor players all over the world.
Following this discussion, you'll hear a preview of Brenda's interview with Beth Paretta who is building a historic racing team full of women at Paretta Autosport.
Next, they burn the worst of sports this week on the Burn Pile. Then, they celebrate those making sports better including Torchbearers of the Week, the University of North Carolina women’s lacrosse team who completed an undefeated season with national title. They wrap up the show with What's Good in their in their lives and What We're Watching in sports this week.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Links
It feels like not much matters in the wake of another massacre at a U.S. school: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/texas-shooting-opinion-shireen-ahmed-1.6464967
U.S. Soccer Announces Historic CBA Agreement, Equal Pay Between USMNT, USWNT: https://www.si.com/soccer/2022/05/18/us-soccer-cba-equal-pay-uswnt-usmnt-world-cup-prize-money
Despite giving up guaranteed contracts, USWNT stand to make more from new CBA: https://equalizersoccer.com/2022/05/18/despite-giving-up-guaranteed-contracts-uswnt-stand-to-make-more-from-new-cba
How the USWNT and USMNT reached a historic benchmark: https://theathletic.com/3318371/2022/05/18/uswnt-usmnt-equal-pay
Details of USMNT and USWNT’s Equal Pay Deal With U.S. Soccer: https://www.si.com/soccer/2022/05/18/us-soccer-equal-pay-cba-usmnt-uswnt-details
Transcript
Lindsay: Welcome to Burn It All Down. Lindsay here. I'm going to be leading the way for today's episode, and I'm so excited to be joined by Brenda and Shireen. Hi, friends.
Brenda: Hey, Linz.
Lindsay: Look, later in the show we're going to be mainly talking about women's soccer, going over this equal pay deal, and of course, taking a bigger picture look at everything, like we always do. There'll be a burn pile. There'll be torchbearers, the usual. But at the top, we just kind of want to hold space. It's been an excruciating week, even more excruciating than all the other excruciating weeks that we've had lately, with the shooting in Uvalde, Texas, at the elementary school, killing 19 children, two teachers. And I just kind of want to check in with my co-hosts and kind of hold space for…I don't know, for everything right now. It’s been weird. Like, as somebody who's not a parent, there's been so much of like, oh, parents, this hits especially hard. And I'm like, I don't know that you have to be a parent for this to feel bad. Yet I sit here and I want to ask like, Brenda, you had to send your kids to school this week. You both have. And so how are you doing?
Brenda: I feel like there's two things for me personally, just about being a parent in this, which is, yes, the school, right? Sending them to school. Putting them on a bus, feeling guilty, sad, not…You know, this kind of feeling of like, oh, it's so wonderful that I'm not in the same situation as the parents of Uvalde, and also feeling like, oh my gosh, why should I even have to think about that? And then the second part is just explaining it to the kids. And they just look at me, you know, they're also Chilean and Mexican and they know it doesn't happen in other countries. And they just look at me, like, why did you decide to have us here? Why are grownups such failures? You know, my oldest is savvy enough that she's like, you know, the Democrats are primarying for a pro-NRA candidate in Texas right now. Did you know that, mom? Did you know that ICE was there? You know? So it ranges from like the very basic, like, heartbreaking, my 8 year old is scared, to my 15 year old is pissed. And that also encompasses every way I feel about it too. And I'm glad that you don't have to be a parent to care. Thank goodness.
Shireen: Yeah, I think part of the reason a lot of these problems happen is because people silo in thinking you only have to be a certain way. You only have to care about racism if you're racialized, you only have to care about women if you identify as one, like, that’s not how this operates. And like, I sit in a country that has very different gun laws, but is also no stranger to attacks and terrorist attacks. We’re coming up on one year of London, Ontario, of, you know, it wasn't a gun that was used, but like that hate and that racialized violence. And I don't want to take away from that, like, this specificity of the way that racialized, marginalized communities are targeted as terrifying, you know? It was difficult to focus on anything else. My children are older. I did write a column about it, and we'll put it in the show notes, which was very different than I started off doing in an editorial meeting with my editor. We had planned out the next couple of weeks, and then when I sat down to write, I was like, I can't fucking pretend to care about the Flames and the Oilers right now. Like, how can anyone focus on anything else? Parent or not. And what makes me so moved is the way that people are pleading for safety. There was demonstrations outside of Houston, outside an NRA conference, like, these things matter. And I guess you could say I was heartened to see that, to see that movement and those youth that have been so fucking brave in a way that they don't have to.
Lindsay: Yeah. I think, you know, the initial news was excruciating, and then I experienced something, which…It’s like every bit of news that came out about actually what went on within that building and how long, how unprotected they were, and the horrendousness of the police response just was like worse and worse and worse. It was a very real situation, but I mean, I just couldn’t help but feel like there was something metaphoric about it, right? About like these people trapped in this room and the people outside having ability to help and like choosing not to, like making whatever decision to choose not to. And it feels sometimes like what we're doing on a regular basis, just screaming, like for the people in power to like fucking do something. Like, use your power, stop overthinking things and making all these calculated decisions and do something. Open the damn door, open the damn door. I’ll leave you with a clip from Washington Mystics point guard, Natasha Cloud, who's been very outspoken about this, and she's particularly called out the Washington Nationals and the Washington Capitals to be much more outspoken.
Natasha Cloud: We have an issue in this country. Not only white supremacy. We also have a gun violence issue. And this is us using our platform, right? This game doesn't matter. The 18 lives – and the number’s going up by the minute – 18 lives that were lost today from senseless gun violence in Texas at an elementary school. We’re talking about our kids not being safe to go to school. And our government is still not implementing sensible gun laws. This isn't about taking people's rights away from bearing arms. This is about putting sensible gun laws in so that this doesn't happen again. We cannot continue to make the same mistakes. We cannot continue to allow these things to happen in our country, and nothing is being done with it, for money, for profit. So I'm calling on everyone: please put this out, post it. Write to your not only local representatives but your federal representatives and tell them you are tired. Tell them that we are tired of lives being lost in this country. It is time to implement gun laws and stop caring about profit and money over people and lives.
Lindsay: There's no easy way to make this transition. You know, we hold multitudes at once, and we've been following this equal pay fight for the US women's national team since the beginning here at Burn It All Down. And this is our first time really having a chance to sit down and discuss it. We gotta give the win some space as well. So, take a deep breath and pivot with us, if you will, for a second, friends. A couple of weeks ago, we got the news that the US women's national team and the US men's national team have signed collective bargaining agreements with US Soccer.
Brenda: Yay!
Lindsay: Per game and per training camp bonuses are all equaled out. They have equaled out FIFA prize money, and agreed to pool together their bonuses. We're going to break down exactly how that works. But wow. It's been a long time coming. Bren, first of all, what kind of stood out to you the most about this agreement?
Brenda: Well, then it happened, period. [Lindsay laughs] I mean, just after, you know, Carlos Cordeiro, the former USSF president, coming close, even in the room to winning again, which was harrowing. I really thought that that might cause people to, you know, the CBA to have more of a difficult journey or road, or maybe indicated more resistance to it. So, I guess I'm really very, very just pleased for once about the fact that this got through. The prize money in particular, I mean, the US of course is not the only nor the first place to have equal pay. This has happened in a number of countries for years, including some powerhouses like Australia and also Brazil already has equal pay. We can go into the specifics of that. It's not as good of a deal as the US got. Which is amazing, and a model, but it's huge. I mean, the prize money is one of those things that even the countries with the equal pay haven't been able to get. So, that was really surprising for me, I guess. And we can talk about the withdrawal of support for NWSL player salaries from the US Soccer Federation, which happened back in December.
Lindsay: I think when breaking down how we got to this point, that was step one, right? To even be able to start thinking about structuring the CBA in a different way, right? Can you refresh people on why the US women's soccer team, their contract, used to be structured so differently from the men’s? And why that was able to change this time.
Brenda: So, in December, in part because of a lot of criticisms from a lot of different corners, Cindy Parlow Cone and the board decided with NWSL to stop…The USSF subsidized some of the national women's team players in NWSL. That had been a very long time coming to try to help NWSL and to recognize the fact that a women's professional league helps a women's national team, right? It makes perfect sense. They use the training facilities, they stay in shape, they do a lot of things that contribute to the women's national team being as good as it is. However, as the league grew, it obviously is better for everyone that they are separate entities. In most of global football, the federation is not also paying the professional league to handle its PR. Well, that was the case. So it wasn't just for the women. Part of this was also the US Soccer Federation will not pay any longer MLS and their marketing arm to market the Gold Cup.
So this is about starting to separate and organize in an independent and coherent way, this federation. And so by telling the women we're not subsidizing these salaries anymore, you know, we're not going to subsidize MLS in different ways. Both of this came together. It allowed for them to also not have the clause of the no strike so that they could negotiate the CBA in a way that it didn't get mucked up with this. It didn't have different tiers of players. And it's also a statement, hopefully, that the NWSL is strong enough to thrive on its own. Now, I still have my reservations in the sense that tons has been invested in men's sports. And I like investing more in women's sports, even by the USSF. But I do like to see its independence too. So, you know, that's kind of the main outline, I think.
Lindsay: So essentially it used to be, I think it was around 150,000 or something around that ballpark, which was like the yearly salary that the players who were selected as the 23 on the women's roster would get paid. And that was their playing for the US and for the National Women's Soccer League. They would not sign contracts directly with NWSL owners. And now they sign contracts directly with the NWSL owners, most of which for the players of that tier are now above what they were getting as their US Soccer salaries. And now they can go to getting higher bonuses à la the men's team for the games that they're actually playing, you know, when they are called up to play for the national team. Shireen, what was the other huge part of this? Can you break down this prize money split?
Shireen: Yeah, this is really exciting. So y'all know I don't really do numbers, because math and me is not a thing, but this…It was fairly easy, and I'm happy to do it. So I did look around, and one of the easiest ones that broke it down was an article in Sports Illustrated, which I've included in the show notes. So you can check it out there. So specifically about prize money, and if you want to read more there's Olympics breakdown, CONCACAF breakdown, et cetera, et cetera. But the pivotal piece here, and I think where the big bags of money are, are definitely with FIFA. So both unions agreed to pool FIFA's World Cup payments for this year's men's World Cup and next year's women's World Cup. So, US Soccer will take 10% of the money awarded to each team then split the rest among the two teams – that's 46 players. So, 23 men, 23 women. For the '26 and '27 tournaments, the USSF will take 20% and split the rest in a similar manner. Now, you're probably like, why will they take more in 2026? Also, don't forget the United States is co-hosting the men's World Cup in 2026 with Canada and Mexico. So they're going to be like, oh, we need more money for, I don't know, logistics and hot dogs. I don't know why I said hot dogs. I don't know. [laughter]
Brenda: America.
Lindsay: When you think of US Soccer, you think hot dogs. [laughs]
Brenda: Kinda, though. Kinda!
Shireen: I don’t know.
Brenda: Not wrong.
Shireen: More flags, more bald eagle mascots. I don't know what y'all do. And for qualifiers for World Cup or another tournament, each player actually gets $10,000 in game plus base pay plus 14,000 for a win and 4,000 for a draw. So, FIFA had earmarked 400 million – listen to these numbers – in 2018 for the men's tournament, including 38 million to champion France, 30 million for the 2019 tournament, and 4 million to champion the United States. That's the difference in the numbers. So FIFA has increased the total for 440 million for the 2022 men's World Cup, and Gianni Infantino, who we've talked about on the show, proposed FIFA to double the women's prize to 60 million for the 2023 women's World Cup, which will be held in Australia and New Zealand. And FIFA is increasing the teams to 32. So at the same time, you're probably like, what does FIFA get out of this? Because they're never going to do anything for the goodwill of women and increasing the women's game. What's happening? It's also increased revenue. And at this point it's literally criminal for them not to pay women what they’re remunerated and what they’re due. So that's a bit of the breakdown of the numbers.
Lindsay: Woo! Shireen, our stats.
Shireen: I'm just an actuary.
Lindsay: [laughs] Put that your title. I love it. A couple other things I just want to mention, first of all, there's been a lot of, wow, so the US men are basically giving the women's team charity – whatever you can imagine Brenda's eye-roll was, it was even stronger when I just said that. [laughs] But that has been the talk, and I think it's super important to note that the men decided this was in their best interest as well because US Soccer was pitting the two teams against each other. The men had been stuck with their old CBA since 2018. Why? US Soccer was not going to give the men more money, these higher bonuses, these higher payouts, because the women were suing them for equal pay. So they're not going to then bump up the men's even more and make things even more unequal. That was really a wake up call for the men of, oh fuck, we need labor solidarity because this is hurting us. We've got to the point where they're not giving us more money. They're not giving us more things because they don't want to give it to the women. [laughs] So maybe we can come together.
And the truth is, like, there are years where this would have benefited the men more than the women, you know? The last cycle, when the men did not make the World Cup and the women won it all, for example, right? [laughs] Like, even though the women got so much less because of FIFA, that's still money that would've gone into the men's pocket, right? You get $0 if you don't even make the damn tournament. [Shireen laughs] And so ultimately I think it’s just very important that the men did not do this because they are these benevolent allies and supporters of women's sports. I'm not saying it's not good what they did, but I'm saying they realized that labor solidarity is going to be a benefit for them as well. And a few things: the federation, they were able to fight for the federation to set up 401k plans for all players on both teams. That's something the men did not have before. The men also now are getting childcare during all training camps and match windows, which is like another thing that's really cool. And of course, game day bonuses and roster bonuses increased for everyone across the board.
We want to also kind of look at the big picture, and this is why I'm so glad that we have Shireen and Brenda here. I just want to make clear, once again, the men are not these heroes. And also, this is not equal pay across the board in the US. The NWSL still pays way, way, way less than MLS for equivalent star players. And the NWSL has a much higher status in the global game than MLS does. So while this is equal pay for the national teams only, this is not the end of the fight for pay equity in women's soccer, even here in the United States. Shireen, can you tell me what's happening in Canada?
Shireen: I think one of the things about the United States is that it sets a precedent – the US women's national team specifically, I want to say that specifically, not the United States men's team has inspired everybody. Like, that's not what I'm trying to say here. [Lindsay laughs] Briana Scurry actually was interviewed by CBC Sports and said very specifically that this should be something that Canada should aspire to. I've been on CBC with Diana Matheson, former captain of the Canadian women's national team, and we've talked about it regularly, repeatedly, and she been on the show talking about it, how important it is to get a domestic league, but also to have equal pay. You know, Canada, I'm not sure what they have to do. You can't even buy a fucking jersey here with the women's names on it. It's pitiful. So Canada Soccer is not stepping up to it. And I think that this is a point in which…And I love that Diana did this recently, and again, we'll put it in the show notes. She did an interview with The Current, which is one of Canada's most popular radio programs, news programs, is talking about why this is so important and why we can't lose momentum here.
And as we celebrate the United States women, we need to say, this is awesome, let's do it here. Because we've won gold. We've medalled at the Olympics several times. We're ranked top 10 FIFA, definitely. Like, what else needs to happen here? And, you know, the fact that Briana Scurry said something made me go mm-hmm, because she's played alongside and with Canadian athletes as well her whole career. And she knows, because Canadian women don't actually have anywhere to play in Canada. So she knows this. But I found that that was extremely poignant, and not just Canada, like, in other football worlds. And I'll just step in the global context here, because that's what I do, including Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, even Libya, civil instability and safety concerns are a priority, right? So when we're talking about equal pay, it is fair to say that some of those places aren't ready for that conversation yet, because they're still trying to like, not die when they play football, or get like a stable women's league or tournaments. Forget about a league, let's start with tournaments, which a lot of these places do to test the infrastructure and test the support of the federation and association.
Pakistan was under suspension and riddled with corruption. Nigeria had to commit to a sit in, in order to get paid in the first place. Again, we talked about it on the show. Other federations are reeling from abuse and trauma of players, and it's a fucking mess because men are the fucking worst. But new leagues are getting their footing. So I do want to highlight that. One in Saudi Arabia, for example. They're a long way from equal pay. But honestly, seeing this agreement ratified does give them hope. And we interviewed a player about the new Saudi Arabian league, and they mentioned feeling inspired by the US women's national team, and that vision matters a lot. And I do not want to take away from that. Also, FIFA has appointed 6 women officials for Qatar, three refs and three assistant refs – a first. I'm not mad at this. Brenda might be, obviously, but I'm just saying. A total of 36 referees, 69 assistant referees, 24 video match officials for the tournament, and 6 out of that are women. So the bar is so low, but you know me, I'm half glass full. Shireen Half-Glass-Full Ahmed. So, here I am bringing you some snippets of positivity.
Lindsay: Bren, you mentioned there already were agreements elsewhere. So where does this kind of fit into the ripple effect pushing for equality, and kind of what’s next?
Brenda: So, let me say, because I'm gonna be real negative about CONCACAF and lots of stuff, but this is fantastic. The US is benefiting from other countries doing this in some way. Like, I feel like it is a movement of solidarity, of feminist solidarity across women's football. So, Denmark, Norway, Australia, Brazil, you know, and now the US is contributing to that wave. We have never seen the male allyship that we did in Denmark and Norway, which is incredibly disappointing. You know, the Danish men willingly giving up their salary to get equal pay and pushing their federation. But this is a great beginning. It's like you said, whether they mean it from their heart or it's just strategic, labor solidarity is fantastic to see. And so of course, you know, World Cup championships, they're super important. I will say, look out though, NWSL, because the Europeans have exponentially grown that league, and they are just clobbering the NWSL in terms of attendance. And I don't love to see that. So I do have part of me kind of be like, hmm, you know what I mean? Like, you're seeing Catarina Macario leave and not play for NWSL? I don't love that as like a sign. So I think you're right, like, build on the momentum. Don't stop. Recognize this, and keep…You know, I'd love to see the US Federation and the US women keep their status in many ways as the vanguard of this process, because there is nothing I hate more than the Premier League and everyone knows it. [laughs] I want to see that, really.
So I think I'm really happy. I also just have to say, between the federation and FIFA, we have to remember, whether it's Afghanistan or these other parts of the world, there are confederations that can do things. And CONCACAF, speaking of Canada, is just completely absent. And there's jokes, you know, that goes around like, “You’ve been CONCACAF’d,” as a way to say, like, you know, you've been stymied by a ridiculous and useless labyrinthine structure of governance. That's a verb, you know, that we use in soccer. And it's funny, except when it isn’t. And in the case of women, it really isn’t. Those Canadian women…It’s such bullshit that they don't get this. This is all bullshit. And it's such bullshit that the Mexican women don't get it. How is CONCACAF not looking at this? So I really hope that these federations are just going to push, and they shouldn't have to. The confederation that slide in between…I mean, the state of soccer in Central America is abysmal for women, abysmal. And we'll talk later about this corruption and the bad side, but here we have a great opportunity. So anyway, I'm psyched about it and I'm also like, let's keep going, you know, I want more.
Lindsay: My hope is right that like we don't want this gap in prize money to stay this massive, right? The point is let's equal this out. I don't know what's going to make FIFA do it, but if men, if their paycheck is on the line based on how small the women's prize money is, right? We're going to have more men pushing FIFA to up those women’s purses, and that’s gonna help, right? Like, that pressure can help. I think it was 2019 for that World Cup when FIFA was making this huge deal, like, “We doubled the women's prize money!” And it was like from 15 to 30 one year, and then 30 million to 60 million the other year. And at the same time, they increased the men's by over 40 million, so like, the gap between the two got wider, [laughs] because the men's went from 400 to 440, where the women's went from 30 to 60. So the overall gap got even bigger while they were trying to take a victory lap for doubling the women’s, right? And what the labor solidarity does to me is more men pushing for the women to get more money because it impacts their paycheck is good.
All right. Let's kind of get quickly into what else is going on around the world. Of course we're into the NWSL season. Expansion teams are doing well. It's a lot of fun, a lot of chaos. And I think one of the exciting news is definitely Angel City, which is of course the new team in LA, it partnered with Tigres Femenil for the first NWSL partnership with Liga MX. I think we love that, love seeing more competition between the club teams. We're seeing more investment in women's club teams around the world, which is, I mean, yeah, we want the NWSL to step up their game. Once again, they're not going to do it just because it's the nice thing to do. They're going to do it because they're losing talented players and falling behind in the global market competition. Hell yeah. Bren, there's something else going on in women's soccer in the US?
Brenda: Oh, the USLW with Amanda Vandervort, who used to work for FIFPRO, is now heading this up. You know, in my fantasy, it's USL becoming a relegation situation in the US. That's my fantasy to fight the Ponzi schemes.
Lindsay: So it is, just to clarify for people, it is another women's soccer league that's just technically a level below NWSL.
Brenda: Yes, yes. As the USL. It’s the same structure.
Lindsay: Gotcha.
Brenda: And it's very healthy, because you're looking at going from grassroots kind of girls soccer…What's between that and the NWSL? And here in the US we tend to think colleges and universities, but that doesn't really work with global soccer. It hasn't really worked because you can't set up a relegation system to go to like, oh, okay, you're relegated to UNC, right? [laughs] Like, it doesn't work. So this is a really good…USL has really grown in the men's leagues and really filled and occupied a certain space. And there's great supporters groups, and it's a great way to build soccer culture, I think, in a progressive and inclusive way. And so I'm really excited about women having this middle tier. I think it's actually really an important step, though it hasn't been getting a ton of fanfare.
Lindsay: Shireen?
Shireen: Yeah. Again with some fun news, fun news! Jazz hands are up. Viewers of the UEFA Women's Champions League went up 56%. Now, I've got this via the extremely emphatic and enthusiastic PR people at DAZN, which is in this case really important. A total live viewership for May 21, the final we saw between Lyon and Barcelona, a cumulative viewership of 3.6 million globally across DAZN’s women's Champs League YouTube channel and the free to air channels in Europe. And this is a 56 percent increase in audience compared to last season. And that's really important. And for the entire season, 64+ million views across those same channels. And notably, Canada was the fifth highest market driving the UWCL viewership on DAZN this season. And that is important because a lot of people automatically figure that Canada doesn't have that much of an interest or a vested interest in this kind of thing. But the point is, if you show it, we will watch.
Lindsay: Yes! Bren, you want to take us to…We’re going to end on a down note here, to some not fun news.
Brenda: Yeah, I don't want to do that, but I do think it reinforces how important the independence of the federation right now from the professional leagues can be, and kind of reinforces our other points about what progress looks like, is just, if you've been following, the Guardian has had some good coverage, and particularly there is a reporter Romain Molina, who's been reporting on different cases of egregious behavior, of sexual harassment and assault throughout women's soccer and men's soccer. And once again, we've seen the “ethics” committee – and I put that in giant air quotes – come up useless. In this case, the same as Argentina. It took them a year to respond to the Argentine women’s complaint that they had been sexually harassed by a coach. There was at least five players that we know of, at least 30 witnesses. The ethics committee came back and said there's not enough here to go on. Three men made that decision, men that…I’m not going to say would be implicated in similar things, but let's say their own federations have closets to clean.
And when you take a look at what's happened in Haiti and Colombia, it's very important to stay vigilant because we've seen how the NWSL might grow and be wonderful. And then we're like, oh shit, this has been a totally toxic work culture for six years. We don't want these things happening again and repeated again. And so governance is important. And I just want to throw out that those cases are here. They're ongoing. Please, you know, if you see people tweeting at FIFA, if you see…They operate because nobody wants to pay attention to the details, but the devil is right there in those details, and it is fucking boring, but get on a FIFA ethics site and get to know your soccer. Why isn't this being investigated? Because of that stuff. You know, and this is where the harassment takes place.
Shireen: Yeah. I just wanted to jump in here and say, even this morning, as we were talking about this, after we prepped, Romain Molina, the reporter whom we've talked about on the show as well, who does a lot of this reporting, he messaged me to tell me he had a new story out about Didier Ollé-Nicolle, who is a coach of Paris Saint-Germain Fémenine. One of the teams was accused of sexual harassment of an underaged player. And now he is temporarily suspended, but the ways in which PSG contorts themselves to avoid any kind of accountability or pretending like it didn't happen. And all those things are part of the system of violence. Whether you ignore it, brush it under the rug or transfer him somewhere else, or anything like that. Ignore the calls and demands of players and of survivors to check into it. Like, it's horrible. And again, we thank Romain is a friend of the show. And the point of doing this isn't to say that the glass is half empty, it's to say this is what we need to do to get it full.
Lindsay: This week in our interview, Brenda talks with Beth Paretta of Paretta Autosport about her racing team that features women drivers and engineers.
Beth Paretta: I think a lot of people have that experience that are in, you know, historically male businesses, male dominated things. And we all have that story of like, oh, you know, at first you kind of think like, wow, look at me, I've made it. And then you realize there should be more of us. [laughs] And then you make that pivot and realize, oh god, let me like pull people up the ladder.
Lindsay: We're going to go into our burn pile. Bren, I think it's a good segue from our main discussion today. [laughter] Get us going.
Brenda: Yeah. This is both hilarious though. I mean, it's everything we've been talking about. So, in the midst of all of these ethics committee filings and reporting and investigations, and…I’m just going to say it once again. I know I'm a broken record, but I didn't break myself. [Lindsay laughs] The most corrupt federations are the most sexist. They are the ones that embezzle the development money. They're the ones that are able to treat women as they do, with impunity. And two of the most corrupt organizations – UEFA – has up who has handed you the World Cup in Qatar in 2022 and put Kissinger on the organizing committee of 2026, has partnered with CONMEBOL, responsible for most of the 2016 FIFA arrests, to have a conference in Venezuela of all places called Fútbol Para Mujeres, Women In Football. Don't really look for it to be well-publicized because it certainly wasn't. Don't look for major women athletes to be there, because they certainly weren’t invited. But there were a lot of men invited. Men that needed to learn and lead in women's football, didn't they? No, of course I'm being sarcastic. This is stupid and bullshit.
There's just bunches of pictures of dudes sitting around and talking about women's football without any of the grassroots activists, or players, or anybody of importance. And yet this is just UEFA and CONMEBOL wasting development money that could go to women, particularly when we know that Venezuela has struggled with civil struggles and violence for the last 10 years, that women have been totally marginalized. But you don't want to have, who was once FIFA player of the year, Deyna Castellanos, come as the Venezuelan star? No, because she knows better, because she knows that this is just window dressing on an incredibly corrupt and misogynist institution. So if you want to laugh, go and look at the Venezuela federation and the pictures of men sitting around the tables really wringing their hands over how to, I think, embezzle more money from women's football, because that's what this conference was about. I want to burn it. Burn.
All: Burn.
Lindsay: I'm gonna go to another standard on our burn pile, which is everything surrounding the Larry Nassar case. So this week, the justice department announced it was closing its review of two former FBI agents who botched the investigation into Larry Nassar, who of course was the USA Gymnastics and Michigan State doctor who sexually assaulted dozens of patients, mostly girls and women, including of course some of our most prominent gymnasts. US gymnasts first reported Nassar's abuse to the FBI in 2015. He was not arrested until 2016 and he went on to abuse more women and girls at his job at Michigan State. So, it's just absolutely a mind boggling decision. The justice department and says in their quote, “While the justice department's office of inspector general has outlined serious concerns about the former agents’ conduct during the Nassar investigation, and also described how evidence shows that, during interviews in the years after the events in question, both former agents appear to have provided inaccurate or incomplete information to investigators, the principle of federal prosecution requires more to bring a federal criminal case. This does not in any way reflect a view that the investigation of Nassar was handled as it should have been, nor in any way reflects approval or disregard of the conduct of the former agents."
So, they're basically saying, like, yes, everything about this was botched and fucked up, but it's not enough to actually go forward with federal charges, which – what are the point of federal charges then, if you have all the evidence that literally their inaction led to others being abused? Simone Biles tweeted, “And people wonder why women/men don't come forward, because justice is never served. This is literally insane to me. We keep suffering. At what price?” Burn.
All: Burn.
Shireen: For my burn this week, I actually wanted to talk about the anti-Muslim abuse and death threats faced by Colorado Avalanche’s Nazem Kadri. And for those that don't know him, Nazem Kadri is of Lebanese descent and he identifies as Muslim. Now, in the series of the Colorado Avalanche playing the St. Louis Blues in game three, Kadri actually accidentally collided with Jordan Binnington, the goalkeeper of the St. Louis Blues. As a result, Binnington was unable to continue in the series. Kadri was not found guilty for anything, nor was there any penalty. However, St. Louis Blues fans found it upon themselves to issue death threats and horribly racist and violent commentary at Nazem Kadri that his wife later shared through her Instagram account. And it was said that in a press conference, a St. Louis Blues player threw a water bottle at him. And then in game four, David Perron allegedly attacked him and then ended up being fined $5,000 by the league.
But with regards to the death threats, it was a long time before the St. Louis Blues front office actually said anything at all. One of the things that I want to burn. Secondly, the NCCM, the National Council for Canadian Muslims, and the Canadian Arab Institute both banded together and advocated for Kadri, because no one else seems to do it. It's like the NHL is absolutely silent on this type of violent outburst and something that affects their players so deeply. So they have called for a ban on the fans that actually led this torrent of abuse on Nazem Kadri and said that they should all be banned for life from NHL games, something that I personally agree with. The other thing that I want to burn here is in game four of that particular series, which Colorado went on to win, Nazem Kadri got a hat trick. So very much some of the commentary from hockey writers was, oh, look at Nazem Kadri and how he deals with racism. Fuck that. That’s not how Nazem Kadri was dealing with racism. He was doing his job. He was playing hockey. The ways in which racialized people deal with abuse is not to go out and go above and beyond necessarily. They process very personally and deeply. He was doing his job. Just because we happen to be very good at our jobs doesn't mean that this type of abuse doesn't affect us.
I've been on the receiving end of anti-Muslim, gendered Islamophobic, and very violent threats. They're awful. And the actually take a very large toll on you mentally and emotionally. So I want to absolutely scrap and burn that idea that, oh, you went out and, you know, you fought racism with getting a hat trick. Absolutely not. I just want to take a second to offer solidarity with Nazem Kadri and his family, because this is absolutely upsetting and, you know, very discouraging at the same time. But what I do want to do is burn all that type of xenophobic, Islamophobic, and horribly racist abuse to the ground. Burn.
All: Burn.
Lindsay: I want to lead off our torchbearers this week with a dedication. Brenda?
Brenda: We are very sorry to hear about the untimely death of Mariana Chaves of Museu do Futebol, who passed away last week very suddenly, all too soon. She was responsible for researching the history of women's football in the national Brazilian museum in Sao Paulo, and bringing together as well as advocating for veteran women players. She will be missed.
Lindsay: Got some honorable mentions for our torchbearers this week. Shireen?
Shireen: Yay golf! [laughter] Stanford women's golf team won the NCAA DI golf championship this week over the Oregon Ducks. This is the second national title in women's golf for the Cardinals.
Lindsay: Woo! The Cardinal. Stanford are the singular Cardinal. [laughter]
Shireen: Okay, well I thought, like, am I congratulating like the Catholic church right now? Like, what's happening? The Cardinal, the one Cardinal.
Lindsay: It's a thing.
Shireen: I learned that today. Okay.
Lindsay: It'll come in handy. Brenda?
Brenda: Jessica Campbell, an assistant coach for team Germany, became the first woman to be an assistant coach at the IIHF men's world hockey championship.
Lindsay: We want to give kudos to Candace Parker, the third player in WNBA history to record multiple career triple doubles in a game against the Washington Mystics. She had 16 points, 13 rebounds and 10 assists. She's also the oldest player to notch a triple double at 36 years old, and she was named as one of Time Magazine's 100 most influential people. So, she had quite a week. Shireen?
Shireen: Chelsea Dungee, former Dallas Wings player, was hired at Troy University as an assistant basketball coach at the age of 25.
Lindsay: And Brenda? I love this one.
Brenda: This is incredible. This is incredible! Lisa Blair has broken the world sailing speed record for the fastest circumnavigation of Antarctica by 10 days. Like, I don't even know… [Lindsay laughs] Like, you went to Antarctica and tried to do it quick? Like, what? That's just wild. And 10 days feels like a lot?
Lindsay: Like, what? You know, Lisa is a great candidate for torchbearer, but I picked this week. And so can I get a drumroll, please?
[drumroll]
My Tar Heels! The Carolina women's lacrosse team won the national championship. They defeated Boston College 12-11 in front of a capacity crowd of 8,500 at John Hopkins University this weekend. They went to 22-0 this season, being the first undefeated champions since 2017. And it's the third women's lacrosse championship in school history. It was a thrilling game, and I love when my Tar Heels win.
Lindsay: All right, what's good? I’m gonna start. Golf is good, which I know is weird. But the women's US Open is in Pinehurst, North Carolina this week. And I got credentialed through Power Plays to go, and I’ve never been. I grew up watching golf majors. I've never been to a women's tournament before. I've never been to any majors before, and this one has the largest…It’s got $10 million of a pot up for grabs, which is almost twice as much as the previous most money up for grabs at a women's golf tournament. So, I'm super excited, you know? There’s weird stuff about golf, but you know, it's part of the movement, whether it likes it or not, [laughs] and I'm excited to kind of go and watch and experience it. So, I'll have more about that later. Bren?
Brenda: It's been a hard week, as we opened the show with. And so I did have to write this down and really remember to myself, you know, what is it? Okay. So, I love texting Burn It All Down during big soccer matches, and there was the Champions League final. And I texted both of you at some points, and it was just so fun. It's so fun. It's fun when Shireen and I are there. It's fun when Lindsay thinks that my language is very 80s because I used “poser” about someone – and then I used “bogue” on purpose too, because that was also really fun and I hadn't been able to use that word for a while. So it was just fun, I just love that. And, you know, we have professionalized this podcast, which is great, but back in the day, I feel like we texted even more. Like, if you can imagine, like throughout the week. And I love when it happens sometimes. And it's always different permutations of people, and I just like it. So that was one thing.
Also, Books of Jacob by the Nobel prize-winning – and I'm not trying to be like prize-ist or anything – but Olga Tokarczuk? I can never say it quite right. It's this novel that I've been talking about, but it's also like 1200 pages so I'm going to keep on it for a while, about 18th century Ukrainian and Polish mystic Judaism. It is a fascinating…She’s a wonderful novelist and I love her so much, and I'm loving it. She's Polish. The round of 16 of Copa Libertadores, and also my garden looks really…I mean, like I've said, I think there should be a medal in gardening. I think it should be an Olympic sport, like all my yard chores, and I'm doing well this year.
Lindsay: I love it. I did want to mention softball and tennis have been so much fun to watch. There's been so much softball and so much tennis, and I've been loving them. Shireen?
Shireen: I'm going to watch a Blue Jays game with the CBC Sports unit, and I'm really excited. It's a field trip. So it's legitimately going to be like all my work people are going to go out. I'm really excited. I have been working there since January and I had this amazing experience with my editor, Pat Grier, and he doesn't like shoutouts. He's behind the scenes. We've never met in person. On Tuesday last week, I filed a piece at two o'clock in the morning that was really emotional because it was about Texas and how I was feeling. And I didn't even get a chance to text him. It wasn't what we talked about in the editorial meeting, and I gave it to him and it came out beautifully. It made people cry. I've got really good feedback on it. Because like, we’re at this weird intersection, particularly in Canada, like, how do we thread this needle? How is it done? And I am so excited to meet him. I might cry. He would get overwhelmed and probably feel awkward and then pat me, like on the shoulder, which I expect to happen.
Also, one thing that has been really amazing and I'm super excited about, I went with my third child, Sallahuddin, he had his volleyball nationals in Edmonton, and he came out, they fought so hard, the record of the season was 14-2, but they ended up with a bronze medal, which was amazing. I have absolutely zero chill on a regular day. I have less chill as volleyball mom. And it was so much fun. And he's been with this team for a really long time. And then we had a picnic at the end of the week, just to sort of, you know…There was tears. I spent a lot of time with these families. Like, we really do. And nevermind the COVID hiatus of two years. When your children play competitive sports, you do spend a lot of time with the families on the sidelines and stuff like that. And these people have helped him grow into a formidable young man that he is, and I'm forever grateful to his coaches – Wayne, Jim, and Paul. And I'm really proud of the boys that he's played with. And they're all going off playing at different places, playing volleyball at university. Some are taking a gap year, playing in colleges. And I'm so proud of them. So, I love sports, love youth sports. Yay for the bronze and yeah, that's it. That was lot of fun. Heart is very full. It was a very tough week, but heart managed to stay very full.
Lindsay: All right. This week we've got the NHL playoffs, the French Open continues. The softball college world series starts, the women's US Open, as I mentioned. And then of course, NBA, the finals are set. We've got the Golden State Warriors versus the Celtics. And we'll be excited for that. So, lots of good sports to keep us a little distracted. Of course, the NWSL season and the WNBA seasons are going strong as well. That's it for this episode of Burn It All Down, it was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media guru. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. Follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. You can listen, subscribe and rate – would love if you would rate us – on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play, and TuneIn, and probably other places as well. For show links and transcripts, our website is burnitalldownpod.com. We also have merch, and you can get that link at burnitalldownpod.com as well. We exist because of our patrons. If you want to support us on Patreon, go to patreon.com/burnitalldown. Burn on, and not out, especially after this week. Love you all.