Episode 258: Countdown to the Men's World Cup: A Clusterfuck
In this episode, Jessica Luther, Shireen Ahmed and Brenda Elsey discuss what's going on (and not going on) as the Men's World Cup in Qatar nears. But first, they share their favorite foods they recently ate.
Then, they talk about preparations for the Men's World Cup, which is less than 90 days away from starting on November 20. They discuss the mostly off-the-pitch mess, mystery and general clusterfuck that is happening in Qatar: from ridiculous lodging logistics to human rights violations to the bolstering of security and police in Qatar from around the globe. They also discuss the ways the conservative political regime may or may not confront travelers who break Qatari law and the unknown consequences of the cup for women and LGBTQ folks who live in Qatar. All of these issues are underscored by a lack of journalistic transparency, making the BIAD team wonder how anyone will know what is even going on during the tournament.
Following this discussion, they preview a special Patreon segment about the Women's U20 World Cup. Then, you'll here a preview of this week's interview with Bradford William Davis, a journalist for Insider, on the latest in Major League Baseball.
Next, they burn some of the worst in sports this summer on the Burn Pile. Then, they celebrate those shining light, including Torchbearer of the Week, Konnor McClain, the current US National All-Around Champion in gymnastics.
They wrap up the show with What's Good and What We're Watching In Sports this week.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Links
World Cup Worries Mount With 100 Days (They Mean It This Time) to Go: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/sports/soccer/fifa-world-cup-qatar.html
Qatar detain 60 foreign workers during protest for late pay ahead of World Cup: https://theathletic.com/3527480/2022/08/22/qatar-world-cup-protests
Qatar: Domestic workers share harrowing accounts of abuse and exploitation https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2020/10/qatar-domestic-worker-abuse-and-exploitation-report
Norwegian journalists reporting on World Cup workers arrested in Qatar: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/24/norwegian-journalists-reporting-labourers-qatar-world-cup-arrested
10 Questions Journalists Should Ask FIFA and Qatari Authorities About Rights Abuses: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/29/10-questions-journalists-should-ask-fifa-and-qatari-authorities-about-rights-abuses
Journalists cannot allow World Cup to 'sportswash' Qatar's human-rights abuses https://www.cbc.ca/sports/fifa-world-cup-sportswash-opinion-shireen-ahmed-1.6407923
PDF: Global Labor Justice report on Discrimination and Exploitation of Migrant Workers in FIFA World Cup Qatar 2022 Hotels https://globallaborjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Equidem_We_Work_Like_Robots_Report.pdf
Transcript
Jessica: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. I'm Jessica, and today I'm joined by Brenda and Shireen. On this week’s show, we’re gonna talk about the Men's World Cup, which is now less than 90 days from its start, and is logistically a mess, I think we could say. Then we'll burn things that deserve to be burned, highlight the torchbearers who are giving us hope during this time, let you know what's good in our world, and tell you what we're watching this week. This week, we will also have a bonus segment for our patrons about the U-20 Women's World Cup, which is currently happening in Costa Rica. To hear that, sign up to be a patron at patreon.com/burnitalldown. Before we do sports today though, I want to ask my co-hosts a quick but important question: what is one thing that you have eaten recently that was spectacular? Brenda?
Brenda: So, there is a place in Woodstock, New York called ‘Peace, Love, and Cupcakes,’ appropriately. And they name them all after different singers. And I'm sorry, I can't remember what the one I like is called, but it's this coconut thing. And I don't like sweet stuff, really.
Jessica: I know, I was gonna say!
Brenda: I know, I had to struggle. And I was like, oh yeah, there was that one cupcake that I like. And I didn't know that coconut was controversial until like two years ago when people started coming out to me as like coconut haters. And I really love it. So it's hard to get coconut that's not fake, not too sweet. So that was amazing.
Jessica: Oh, I like that. I'll be thinking about your coconut cupcake.
Brenda: And they give it to you with a spoon, which somehow feels so much better, because I've always had this issue about getting food on the side of my mouth. So I'm like, yay!
Jessica: Cupcakes with spoons. Look at you changing my life.
Brenda: It was amazing.
Jessica: All right. Shireen, can you give us one thing?
Shireen: I can give you one thing from each island I've visited recently. [laughter] One will be Jamaica, ackee and saltfish. I'm a hundred percent there for it. We have really great Caribbean food and West Indian food in Toronto, but like, there's nothing like getting actual ackee and saltfish. And what's really cool is I saw actual ackee, the national fruit. And it's incredible. There's a photo of it I shared on Instagram, and I hadn't really said where I was going, so everybody who knew was like, oh my god, you're in Jamaica! Because it's a very big pitted fruit. So there's a large…They look like olives as the seeds. It's incredible. And so anyway, what it ends up looking like when you cook it, for those that aren't familiar with it, it looks like scrambled eggs. But it’s not.
Jessica: A fruit that looks like scrambled eggs!
Shireen: When you cook it.
Jessica: When you cook. Got it.
Shireen: Yes. And then they mix it with saltfish, which I love. And it has very much like a cod – for those from the northwest and like, you know, the coast, the maritime coast, it tastes like codfish in a way, but lighter. So I had that for breakfast, with like dumplings. And for, you know, other places in the West Indies, they may call them bakes. They call them fry bakes. But anyways, I was all about this. And then when I was in Prince Edward Island, I went to New Glasgow Lobster Suppers, the most monumental place ever, and had the all you can eat mussel chowder. And then those are the precursors to the lobster, which I love. They crack it for you, so you don't have to do it yourself.
Jessica: Do you have to like roll yourself out? [laughter]
Shireen: Yeah, we eat, like…
Jessica: All you can eat? Wow.
Shireen: Me and my children did not eat before. It was the first time I took Mark there, and he'd never been to PEI before. And he was like, wow. I'm like, I told you not do breakfast, honey. You gotta listen to me. And they bring busloads of tourists, and it's a church run, like a community church program. And it's all students they hire locally. And their bread rolls, for a while, when my son Sallahuddin was little, he only would eat bread rolls. And I would ask the family to order more bread rolls, randomly, and then I would bring Ziploc bags. Because they throw them out if you don't finish them.
Jessica: Well, if you don't order them, then…
Shireen: Okay. But I would. Somebody wanted one.
Jessica: Yes. I gotcha.
Shireen: So I would Sophia Petrillo it and put them in my bag and go home.
Jessica: I love that you just said like seven different foods. [laughter]
Brenda: She's a rebel. [laughter]
Jessica: I asked this question because I mainly just wanted to talk about the best thing that I've eaten recently, which is called Alabama style white barbecue sauce. And I had had it months ago. I was at a book club. It did come off a food cart. It was great. I was like, what is this magic substance? And so for months I wanted to make it. And I finally made it with some baby back ribs a couple weeks ago. And now it's like the only thing that I think about. And so if you don't like mayonnaise, then it's not your thing, but it's like a mayonnaise base with horseradish, apple cider vinegar, mustard. It is just, oh gosh. It's so, so, so good.
Shireen: So what kind of mustard? Grainy, dijon, prepared?
Jessica: So, in the recipe I used, it was prepared yellow mustard. So like, what you would put on a hot dog kind of thing. I'm sure that there are different versions of this, but I did put the one I used, the link in the doc, so hopefully Shelby will put that in show notes for everybody. It is so good.
Jessica: The Men's World Cup begins on Sunday, November 20th, when host country Qatar will play Ecuador, and it will run through the final on December 18th. That's less than 90 days from now. Lots of men's leagues will stop play during that time, including the Premier League, which will break for more than a month in the middle of November and return to play on December 26th for the traditional Boxing Day round of matches. We've talked a lot on this show, the three of us have talked a lot on this show about the upcoming World Cup. As with any major international sporting tournament, especially this one, it’s more than just some men playing soccer, right? It's a massive geopolitical affair. For example, as Brenda reminded me, as we were prepping for today, earlier this year, Biden called Qatar “a good friend and a reliable and capable partner.” There's an ongoing relationship here between lots of these countries that goes beyond what happens on the pitch in November and December.
But also what happens in Qatar has the potential to have long term international ripples. This is always more than sports, right? We aren't going to cover the human rights issue as deeply in this segment as we have in the past. If you are interested more about that, check out episode 202 from 2021 titled Qatar and the World Cup of Shame. But we did wanna note that there have been some possible changes recently. Bren?
Brenda: Yeah, there have been. Firstly, in 2021, there was a legislative election, which I believe were kind of the first in contemporary Qatari history. And there have been some reform to workers' rights laws. They instituted a minimum wage. It's about 275 US dollars a month, which is incredibly low for the wealthiest country in the world. But it's there. They also eliminated exit visas being necessary for the majority of workers – not all the workers, as I understand, but the majority, like over 75%, can now leave the country without their employer having to issue the exit visa. And they're very new, and it's not, you know, as Shireen's gonna talk about, given the state of the press, it's very difficult to know how things are going with that.
I wouldn't really credit football as making necessarily those changes, but there's something there to the criticism that they're getting from business communities about workers' rights that is seeping through, evidently. However, it's real unclear what will happen in regards to civil rights and protest. Of course, there is no civil rights to unionize in Qatar, and there's also no civil rights that are on the books to protect protestors of any kind. I just saw recently that 60 foreign workers were protesting for late pay and had been detained. Qatari law says there's a five year penalty for any protest. And again, I'm not sure if that will stick or how that's gonna all go. And just to remind people, you know, the reason we talk about migrant workers in Qatar is that 95% of the total labor force are migrants. That's a completely different situation than probably anywhere any listeners are living in, unless you're in Qatar.
Shireen: Or other Gulf states.
Brenda: Totally. So, it's just, when we say we're talking about migrant laborers, I just wanna be clear, we're talking about most laborers in Qatar would fall under those conditions.
Jessica: So, the fact that we don't really know what's happening is sort of the theme of what we're gonna talk about today, how preparations for the World Cup are and are not going. Big mystery in lots of ways. But before we do that, I have one on the pitch topic that I wanna address. FIFA's gonna use artificial intelligence during the World Cup to determine whether players are on or offsides, and they're gonna do this in real time. Here's how The Athletic describes it: “At every venue, there will be between 10 and 12 specialist cameras hung from the roofs of grandstands. They are there to follow the movement of all 22 players and, via limb tracking technology, ” Wow. “collect 29 data points per player, 50 times every second. A tracking device in the center of the ball will also beam its location to the VAR room 500 times per second. This will allow the AI to tell the refs immediately then, in theory, if a player is offsides.” Bren, as our big VAR proponent, [Shireen laughs] how do you feel about this bit?
Brenda: I think it's great. I mean, I think it's gonna help just relieve part of the brain of an assistant referee a little bit. It's very difficult, that job. And you know, I can't believe how many people hate VAR, after all the years of railing against refs, you know? “We play against 11 guys and a ref, you know, it's like 12.” You hear that kind of talk all the time. I don't know.
Jessica: I think people…
Brenda: People want VAR to go quicker. So there you go.
Jessica: Yeah. I feel like speed will be a big factor onto…People will like the speed of this. I bet we're still gonna get some controversy.
Brenda: Oh yeah.
Jessica: Shireen, what do you think?
Shireen: I love drama. I pretend I'm straight-laced. [laughter] I'm not, you all know me. I'm theatrical and ridiculous.
Jessica: So you're here for robot drama. Is that what you saying?
Shireen: You know what? I'm shallow. I like VAR when it works for me. When it suits me, I am like, that was perfectly fine, we have the technology to show that this person was not offside. I will accuse someone of racism or anti-Muslim behavior, for sure. VAR can do that. But if it doesn't suit me, then, like I said, I'll accuse VAR, the robot, of being like totally biased. So I do, you know, I have no significant intelligent points. I'm just saying. [Jessica laughs] If my team benefits from this shit, I'm all for VAR. I can hear Jen Doyle cringing [laughs] as she listens to me say that, but it's what it is.
Jessica: I think it'll be really interesting to see this implemented. I'm excited. So that's what's gonna be happening on the pitch, at least in part. But it's not clear at this point how we're ever going to get to the point where there are some players on the pitch, which is, you know, less than 90 days from now. There is still so much up in the air logistically. Qatar is a country of roughly 3 million people, and they're expected to receive somewhere between 1 and 1.5 million people during the World Cup. So, 3 million people live there, up to 1.5 million are about to visit during this month. If you were asking “How?” Well, yeah, us too. [laughs] So Shireen, what have you heard about logistics and management of space for visitors to the World Cup?
Shireen: The funny thing is that I have a couple of close friends who actually live in Doha in Qatar, and it's not a big country. Like, it's a small enough country that you can drive to Oman, that people hop all over the place – well, those with money, and that's something I wanna say as well. There’s one underlying huge important thing. You know, Brenda talked about migrant workers and forced labor. Classism is a huge part, and it's built foundationally into the systems of life there. So, the people that I know are a privileged class, they have money, they have resources and school-going children and stuff like this. Like, I really can't emphasize that enough. Like, even rights allotted to people are correlated to their social strata or economic strata.
But in terms of logistics, so, everyone's gonna love this. Schools will be shut down for like six weeks to allow one week of like exodus of Qataris or residents so that everyone else can come in. So, it's six weeks, like before the World Cup starts, and then week after to allow them to come back. So they shorten their summer vacation in the summer because a lot of expats go back to Europe or North America or wherever they're from. And they couldn't do that this year because the kids had school. Can you imagine being a kid and being like, oh, sorry, kids, you don't get any summer vacation.
Jessica: [laughs] Because men are gonna come play soccer here.
Shireen: Because men are gonna play football, and you just have to keep going to school in the summer. Like, what? You know, I think essentially, and this is a very simplistic version. There’s a bunch of men in a boardroom, and they came up with really bad ideas. And for me, this is so much of what all of this is.
Jessica: Yes. Bren, talk to me about hotel rooms. Where are people gonna actually stay?
Brenda: So, no one has any idea apparently, [Shireen laughs] and I'm really surprised. I have to say, I mean, Qataris have a strong business community in global affairs. I really thought hoteliers, you know, were gonna be all over this. It's been like a decade to plan.
Jessica: Yeah. They've had so long.
Brenda: So long. Like, has the world ever watched such a bad idea unfold for so long? And so now there's like 10,000 hotel rooms. What?
Shireen: But in fairness, the people who are building the stadiums are dying.
Brenda: Right! I know.
Shireen: So that's not “in fairness,” actually, but… [laughs]
Brenda: In unfairness. It’s so, so sad that that's happening, but also such a fucking joke. I mean, FIFA's now convincing people to do what they call quote-unquote an “Arabian camping experience,” which is outside. [laughter]
Shireen: I'm sorry, like, Sven from like, you know, Norway – Sven from Norway or from Sweden? Anyway, he's gonna camp, Bedouin style? I don’t…Sorry, Sven. I don’t… [laughs]
Brenda: Dude, I have no idea what's gonna happen.
Jessica: So like, FIFA's building villages, right?
Brenda: They say someone's building them. I guess migrant workers are now pitching tents.
Jessica: Well, FIFA is paying migrant workers to build villages.
Brenda: At least it's safer. At least it's safer than building very big buildings, maybe. But I mean, it actually…If you looked at it, you would think they were building slums on purpose. Like, we're gonna go right in the outer ring of a city and build living accommodations with no running water, no bathrooms. And we're going to call them “fan villages” and “Arabian style camps” for $435 a night.
Shireen: USD. [laughs]
Brenda: Yeah. So, I mean the housing, I have no idea. I mean, I can't tell you…People know that I work with Fare, that I am in charge of the observer program to observe for discrimination in North and South American football. And so I will be there, and I can tell you that FIFA workers don't have hotel rooms. Like, we don't know where they're staying. So, it's wild. It's a wild ride.
Jessica: Wow. I just wanna keep saying good luck to all. [laughter] It really does seem like it's going to be a mess. I wanna quote something from the New York Times. So, “Three months before the tournament, for example, Qatar has yet to unveil concrete plans about the kind of experience fans can expect during their visits, including…” Sorry, this is wild. “Including what they will need to enter the country, where they will stay when they arrive, how the police will handle violations of Qatari laws about public behavior, and where and how fans will be able to consume alcoholic beverages in Qatar, a conservative Muslim country where the sale of alcohol is tightly controlled and where the public consumption of it is almost nonexistent.” I love that that's the biggest part of that sentence, is like, how are people gonna drink? [laughter] But Bren, what have you heard about this?
Brenda: Well, also, as Shireen said, it's a fairly small country. Like, I'm not sure what else we will do. They could fight, they could drink. The places to play football are probably occupied. You know, I kind of understand because I don’t personally…I was trying to think of what the observers would do when they weren't observing, and I came up with camel rides, which is a thing, you know, like a cool thing that you do on the beach. But like, I don't think you could do that all day.
Shireen: You could a desert safari or desert surfing.
Brenda: You could do a desert safari. They're a little bit expensive, you know, but if you're there five weeks. I mean, some people are talking about even commuting from Germany, that they're just going to commute for the day and then come back. Who would wanna be the flight attendant on that trip home?
Shireen: From like Germany to Qatar for like one game?
Brenda: Yeah. That's what they’re…Because they can't find hotel rooms.
Shireen: But airline tickets are ridiculous right now.
Brenda: I know.
Jessica: And so are hotels. So is everything, it feels like. I don’t know.
Brenda: It's all really weird. FIFA claims it's gonna be taking over with its own special laws, as it does. About a half to like two thirds of Doha or something. But it just feels kind of hopeless because no one understands what the penalties will be. It could be that the Qatari government is just like, whatever, you know, this is your fan zone. It doesn't really have to do with us. But it could be that they plan on being more stringent. It’s unclear.
Jessica: We just don't know. Huh. It's hard for me, honestly, to wrap my mind around this, when we're this close to such a major tournament. And then I do wanna talk about security. We've talked so many times on Burn It All Down about how mega events are often used to create huge security and policing apparatuses, under the reasoning that these events have been targets in the past and could be again. Qatar, as we have said repeatedly, is a small country, so they've enlisted help from other countries with security. And I'm just gonna run down some headlines that I've found: ‘Joint statement between the US Department of Homeland Security and the Ministry of Interior of the state of Qatar to secure World Cup Qatar 2022.’ ‘NATO provides security to support to Qatar.’ ‘Morocco is lending police in spies to help Qatar manage security.’ ‘South Korea to dispatch police officers to Qatar.’ ‘France join growing list of nations providing security.’ ‘Turkey to take on biological and chemical threats at Qatar’s World Cup.’ I mean, it's just keeps…‘FIFA World Cup and Qatar to use drones to help protect stadiums against terrorism.’ ‘Big brother style security in place at Qatar World Cup stadiums with 15,000 cameras.’ Wow. I don’t…It is so much. If you just Google this, you will be overwhelmed. Shireen, what does this specifically mean for fans from marginalized or vulnerable communities?
Shireen: Well, one of the things is, is that a lot of people may not know this, Qatar actually is quite draconian in some of their laws in regards with women. They have a guardianship law. And although there are movements, like there's a campaign called The Future is Female. There are women with resources who have women's empowerment. You need guardianship to be married, first of all, if you're under 25, in order to travel. So these are things that really are difficult for women living in Qatar. So you can't acquire reproductive health in some cases without a letter. Like, it’s a mess. The implications of punishment for men and women are not equal either in their justice system. I'm not an expert on Qatari justice or like constitution, but at the same time, there is an understanding that this is a place that is far more conservative.
But, that being said, what Brenda mentioned before, of FIFA taking over in their own jurisdiction, will allow a certain covering for people, like a protection, if you will. Because women, first of all, cover very modestly. Qatar is one of the places, and some people may not know this, that not all Muslim majority countries require women to cover while competing. Qatar is one of those countries. It does require it. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Bahrain are those countries that require it. So, women do cover modestly there. And not always by choice. What happens behind people's doors or in compounds is different. But all this to say that how that will translate to like visitors, we don't even know yet, because I don't think they know yet. Are they gonna have people, like the mutawa in Saudi Arabia, that used to be like conservative police going around fining women for wearing tank tops and skirts? Like, it's going to be hot, right? It's like in the 30 Celsius, high 20 range. It’s gonna be warm. So like, people aren't gonna wear black abayas to go visit.
The difficulty is it's complicated. And Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani is not somebody who has a great record of rights with women. But there is also, you know, restriction of online expression of freedom for people. So even if you were going to be critical, you have to be very careful of criticism of the regime. So, it's one of those things. And it's not great. I mean, there are movements within any place where there is, you know, a restriction of women. There are movements that are wonderful, and I certainly don't wanna discount those groups. And some of them may work like, you know, underground and anonymously. And I'm trying to get in contact with a lot of them, so…
Jessica: But what's gonna happen in 90 days? Yeah. 90 days from now.
Shireen: We don't know.
Jessica: Yeah. What does that mean? Right.
Shireen: And will those people be silenced? And you know, this leads us into so many other questions. Like, we know historically from not just that region, but history has taught us what happens to women who resist. We know what happens.
Jessica: And there's going to be a gigantic security apparatus in place to squash anything.
Shireen: Any dissent. So yeah, I'm concerned about that, for sure. And there's one thing we haven't mentioned in all this, the effect on what it'll be for Qatari women after this.
Jessica: Yeah.
Shireen: What are the implications of this tournament for the women that actually live there and are doing this work? And will their steps be quashed by this, is not something that all the organizing committee would've thought of, in my opinion.
Jessica: Yeah. No. So, Bren?
Brenda: Yeah. The problem is getting rid of security once the tournament's over. So, you know, in the past, in Brazil, for example, it's led to thousands more militarized police following the 2014 World Cup. And I think we know what happened in Russia in terms of bolstering his security forces. So, you have another authoritarian government being given a lot of new police. Like, [laughs] it's usually a bad thing. But I don't know. Again, it's a unique situation. It's a unique government. It's its own place. So, I mean, that's a great question I think Shireen poses to keep at the center of our minds: what happens to women in Qatar after, and what happens to the LGBTQ community? Because as of now, when people are asking me, would you go to Qatar as an openly gay person or activist? And I think that I would have to say no. I haven't heard any commitment on the part of the Qatari government to suspend any of the draconian laws that apply to queer people. And I would be very terrified. You know, NGOs are not running safe houses. They're not having events as they did even in Russia, which, we know Russia's really bad on this issue. So, the Qatari government is not the first place to host the World Cup that is shitty on gay rights. But this is a little bit of a different level, perhaps.
Jessica: Oh, that's just a lot to sit with. Okay. So, it could be a big clusterfuck. And it's not clear how much we will actually know about what's happening in the lead up to the Cup and during it. Right, Shireen?
Shireen: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a lot of things. And while I had contacted some friends of mine in preparation for this actual episode to ask about their conditions living there and what's happening and what they see, and one is particularly connected to work on the ground with women locally. And while there have been really important movements, I think there's this general sense that this is not doing anything from the community itself. And that's one thing that I'm trying to think about a lot, is how will it affect those people in those margins? And there could be a very solid, underground queer community in Qatar that we will never know about, because they can't be known, because of the safety to themselves. I know in other Muslim majority countries there definitely are places like that, where there's underground…And will this endanger those communities?
And even if there was a safe house, how safe is it for actual people living there? Like, I mean, that safe house is not for the locals. It's for people from abroad. And I think this is one of the things we need to think about with nuance when we talk about those things coming. Is there this savior sort of mentality coming in? Like, if I was someone from that community and couldn't disclose my sexuality, I wouldn't be safe regardless of safe houses, because eventually FIFA packs up their circus and leaves. So, yes, clusterfuck is an absolutely excellent way. I just am sitting with all this and it doesn't make me feel good. And we haven't even started talking about the journalism side of this. [laughs]
Jessica: Yeah. Tell us more about that.
Shireen: First and foremost, I think it's really interesting. Qatar is home to Al Jazeera, which is one of the foremost reporting places and news networks, English news networks. They have an Arab language one. But still at the same time, because of the restrictions, I mean, they're one of the organizations that I particularly look to to report on Palestine, because they do it. But do they report adequately on struggles within Doha and within Qatar? Can we say that? I'm not critiquing them as such, but I know the restrictions, the obstacles they face. I'm worried about police and security, like you mentioned, Jess, from places like Turkey. It makes me nervous, because it's a place where journalists are very routinely unfairly detained and killed. We've seen that.
And I mean, reporting on human rights abuses, is it tantamount to getting arrested? Like we saw in November 2021, two Norwegian journalists were arrested in Qatar for investigating the abuse of workers. And does that make you nervous? Like all these people from the quote unquote “free world” will go to Qatar. How free is your freedom? Like, how is your coverage gonna be? Is it gonna be like, oh, let's just only talk about the Super Eagles, let's only just talk about this team, and England coming home. Is that what all the video essays will be? Or will we actually hear any criticism of anything? The clusterfuck, Jessica, as you aptly said, happening around us. I know that I have absolutely no intention of talking whatsoever, because that's the safety piece. That's not the greatest journalistic strategy, but there it is.
Jessica: Yeah. Well, I mean, you always have to balance the actual journalism, journalist safety with their ability to report. It'll be interesting if we will get sort of journalists who go for a bit and leave and then report, if that’s…I don't know all the strategies that outlets are gonna use here around this. I do think, Shireen, we will just get a lot of coming home videos. [laughs] That is my prediction. So it's not clear how the Men's World Cup is actually going to happen a few months from now. But what we know right now is that there is another World Cup currently taking place. In a segment for our patrons, we’re going to discuss the U-20 Women's World Cup that is taking place right now in Costa Rica. If you wanna hear that, sign up to be a sustaining patron at patreon.com/burnitalldown.
Jessica: On Tuesday, I spoke to Bradford Davis about the MLB season so far, including the response to Fernando Tatís Jr's 80-game suspension for using a performance enhancing substance, if Aaron Judge is actually chasing a home run record, and how the Baltimore Orioles have succeeded at tanking.
Bradford William Davis: The Orioles have done that to a new and crazy level, even this year. They traded a few other good players at the trade deadline this year, despite being in shouting distance of a playoff spot, because they didn't feel like the odds were high enough to actually go for it, which frustrated a lot of people. But a funny thing happened. They kept winning.
Jessica: If you missed it, check that out in your podcast feed now.
Jessica: Now it's time for everyone's favorite segment that we like to call the burn pile, where we pile up all the things we've hated this weekend sports and set them aflame. Brenda, what is on your burn pile this week?
Brenda: Well, so, hat tip to Jessica Luther who just threw it to me for finding this burn, because it's a very buried little story out there. I went and had to Google a bunch. I am burning sexism in surfing. Basically what happened last week is the world surfing authorities decided that the women should ride the wave in this island, Teahupoo, when it wasn't as exciting and high of a surf as for the men. So they had the women do their heats in what was considered like a less dangerous but less exciting moment, wave-wise. Whereas the men waited a day and then got the bigger waves. So I went through and I watched this wave called Teahupoo, this particular wave beach part of the coral reef. I don't know if I'm using all the terms…Like, I would never surf. I would die of anxiety before I would even die of anything else. And I went and looked at these YouTube videos. It's this incredibly hard and harrowing beach. It's so terrifying. I don't even know. People have died, sadly, trying to surf this wave. Professional surfers have died. So it is no joke, and surfers take it very seriously.
That said, there's a lot of lore around it. It's like something they dream about. And so of course men have to deny that to women. If you were to see how terrifying this is, you would understand that nobody's gonna be like, oh, she's got a vagina, a wave's gonna kill her. Do you know what I mean, though? Like, all these women keep coming back to like, it's so dangerous, that how could you think it's more dangerous for us? And that's the argument that these women surfers are making. And the women were super frustrated. It was the first time that the World Surf League had allowed them to, like, within regulation surf in 16 years. I'm just gonna leave you with a quote by this very top elite surfer, Layne Beachley. She said, “There's been a rumor going around that the girls all got together and decided they didn't wanna go there because we were too scared. That's completely untrue.” She told this to the Aussie paper The Sun Herald, and she says, “We are extremely disappointed and incredibly frustrated. Fans have picked up on this.” And I just wanna burn that this is a continually stupid thing. So, burn that sexism, burn.
All: Burn.
Jessica: Shireen, what are you burning?
Shireen: So, as part of our ongoing rage and standing in solidarity with trans communities, just an update on the Utah trans ban on girls in sports. On Friday, a judge had blocked a state law banning trans girls from participating in girls sports from being enforced while there's consideration by three trans students challenging this law. This is in no way a win per se, because the law is still enacted, it's just blocked currently. And this is a statement from a piece in Reuters that we will put in the show notes, that “The negative impact of the ban on these girls has been profound, and they are all breathing much easier now that it has been blocked. We are very grateful for the court's decision and looking forward to putting an end to this law once and for all.” That's from Shannon Minter, the legal director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights that’s actually representing the plaintiffs.
But the other thing is, the cases will be decided on a case by case basis, which also is not heartwarming. I mean, trans rights are just, they should be there, full stop. Like, I don't know a very articulate way to say that, because I don't need it to be flowery or poetic. Trans rights are human rights, and should be there, full stop. That's it. We should all be supporting trans rights in sports, in community, everywhere. So, I mean, yes, I'm glad that there is some respite for people enduring this type of targeting and discrimination, but at the same time, this law shouldn’t be there to begin with. I hate it. I hate the continued persecution of trans folks in sports and beyond. There's no place for it here.
It incenses me that every week we see it. And there's permanent stuff on our burn pile and this will always be one of it. So for those communities out there doing the work: we see you, we share our solidarity and our rage. And if you can continue to support organizations in Utah and in the United States, just support trans folks, please continue to do that. And we'll put some links in our show notes on how. So I wanna take lawmakers who are transphobic and terrible and probably assholes and misogynistic and racists too, and I want to put them metaphorically on the burn pile. Burn.
All: Burn.
Jessica: All right. So mine is a gross one. So, buckle up. The head coach of the University of Nebraska's football team, Scott Frost, was doing his monthly radio show last week, giving updates on all kinds of things going into the college football season, which actually starts this weekend. One of the things Frost talked about was the intensive coaching from offensive line coach Donovan Raiola. According to Frost, every practice, he estimates, there are 15 to 20 vomits from the offensive linemen. That's how Evan Bland from the Omaha World Herald described it. 15 to 20 vomits per practice. Frost said, “It’s not because they're not in shape. He's just working them hard. I think they love it. He's kind of freed them up to go be aggressive. And I love the way they're coming off the ball.”
Former Burn It All Down guest Dr. Kathleen Bachynski, who has written extensively about the public health impact of football, especially on youth, and has specifically written an article on the “lack of accountability for preventable health harms that have long characterized many college football programs,” tweeted in response to Frost’s comment, writing, “It's August, which means it's football preseason, which means it's time for our annual reminder that there are no NCAA rules with penalties governing coaches’ behavior and player injuries, only guidelines. Making your players vomit 15 to 20 times at every practice is unacceptable.” Yes, Kathleen. Yes.
To Kathleen's point, there is such little accountability around coaches' behavior and player injuries within college football that DJ Durkin still works as a coach in college football. In case you don't remember, Durkin was head coach at Maryland when, on May 29th, 2018, 19 year old Jordan McNair, defensive lineman for the Terps, collapsed after a particularly grueling workout for the team. McNair eventually died in the hospital from heat stroke, but his death was preventable. And no one under Durkin that day did a damn thing to help him. An investigation found Durkin's program had a toxic culture, but still he wasn't fired at Maryland until public pressure forced the school's hand. But not even the preventable death of a teenager as part of a toxic culture could keep a coach out of college football. No sir. After two years as an assistant to Lane Kiffin at Ole Miss, Jimbo Fisher at Texas A&M hired Durkin to be his defensive coordinator earlier this year. It’s almost like the toxic culture is the culture of college football. It's almost like Frost's comment is just what college football is.
For the sake of presenting the full story, Frost tried to clarify this comment following the backlash he got, saying at a presser that he “might have exaggerated.” Okay. What I want to burn is that it won't matter even a little bit that Frost said this. It won't matter at all that his offensive line coach is doing this. There was some moralizing in the media, like I'm doing now, but it won't actually affect Frost’s job security. It probably won't change anything they are doing in conditioning their athletes, and these players will be the only ones to suffer any actual consequences, and they'll do so with the wear and tear to their bodies. That's horrible. And so I wanna burn the culture of college football going into the start of this next season. Burn.
All: Burn.
Jessica: Now to highlight people carrying the torch and changing sports culture. Shireen, get us started.
Shireen: Very excited about this. Ellen White, the all time record goal scorer for England's national women's football team, the Lionesses, has announced her retirement from football, saying, “I was once told I couldn't play with the boys team and I would never play for England. Now I am retiring, having made 113 caps with 52 goals for England, and a European champion.” Unbelievable.
Ellia Green: Hi, I'm Ellia, and I am honored to be a part of the opening of the Bingham Cup summit today.
Brenda: That is Ellia Green, a rugby star from Australia.
Ellia Green: Imagine not being able to do what you love because of how you identify. Banning transgender people from sport, I think, is disgraceful. And I think it's hurtful. The rates of suicide and mental health will get even worse. I say that because, you know, I guess speaking from myself.
Brenda: Ellia Green won the gold medal with his team at the 2016 Olympics, publicly disclosing that he is a trans man. He is now the third known transgender Olympic medalist.
Jessica: Shireen?
Shireen: Lyon won the women's international champions cup this past weekend, becoming the only team to win the competition twice. Lindsey Horan scored three goals in the tournament, including a brace in the final, and was named player of the tournament.
Jessica: Brenda?
Brenda: There are just too many stories coming out of the European Athletics Championships taking place in Munich right now. But we do wanna spotlight 41 year old Barbora Spotakova from the Czech Republic, who won a bronze medal in javelin at the European Athletics Championships, and in doing so has now won four European Championship medals across three separate decades: a silver in 2006, a bronze in 2010, a gold in 2014, and another bronze in 2022. And Sandra Perkovic, who has now won six consecutive Euro Athletics titles in discus throwing. Incredible work.
Announcer: So, starting here, a world first, the first time in history that we've ever put able bodied and para swimmers together in a relay, historic staff. And hopefully plenty more we're going to see in the future, but not mucking around here.
Jessica: Amy Fulmer, Jamal Hill, Lizzi Smith, and David Curtiss won the debut race of the mixed class able bodied relay in swimming, which pairs two para athletes with two able bodied swimmers, each of them swimming a 50 meter leg. Go find the video of this and watch it. It is thrilling.
Shireen: British-Somali super bantamweight boxer Ramla Ali made history winning the first ever female boxing match in Saudi Arabia. It took her 42 seconds to knock out her opponent. I would also like to add that Ramla Ali is also a model.
Brenda: Oh, okay.
Jessica: [laughs] All right. Bren?
Brenda: Catalina Quezada and her teammates became the first Chilean pro women footballers to win a labor lawsuit against a Chilean club.
Jessica: Can I get a drumroll, please?
[drumroll]
Our torchbearer this week is 17 year old Konnor McClain, the newest US national all-around champion in gymnastics. She took gold ahead of silver medalist Shilese Jones and Olympian Jordan Chiles, who came in third. In the last year, McClain has changed clubs and coaches, moving from West Virginia to Texas, and also lost both her grandmother and her father. She also went into the competition having recently dealt with shin splints, a concussion, and an illness. After winning, she said, “Honestly, I wish I could talk to my dad right now.” Jordan Chiles, for her part, made history alongside her former Olympic teammate, Jade Carey. They are the first US Olympic female gymnasts to return to elite competition after competing in the NCAA. It is the age of NIL.
McClain, Jones, and Chiles is a podium of all Black young women, the first time in US history. This is no longer surprise though, in US gymnastics. If you want to know more about how Black US female gymnasts went from the margins of the sport to its core, check out the third season of American Prodigies, hosted by our own Dr. Amira Rose Davis, which tells this story. Congratulations to Konnor, Shilese and Jordan.
Jessica: Okay, what's good, y’all? Brenda, what's good with you?
Brenda: I'm gonna go see Bad Bunny.
Jessica: [laughs] Always good.
Brenda: At Yankee stadium. I have tried to do this a long time, so I'm really excited, and yeah, it like needs no justification. And anything else I would say following it would just be so sad and pathetic in comparison that I think that's like enough said. Bad Bunny, Yankee stadium. Holy shit. I'm so fucking excited. [laughs]
Jessica: Yay!
Shireen: So for people that don't know, that's Brenda Elsey’s level 15 of excitement.
Jessica: Shireen, what's good with you?
Shireen: I'm excited that Brenda's going to see Bad Bunny, honestly, because like this is a thing. I'm very excited because I'm going to see Jessica Luther soon. I can't deal with how excited I am. I've thought about feathered boa colors for her visit. Like, there will be accessories and I will keep you posted. That’s later. But right now, Kylian Mbappé, who I used to call lovingly my son-in-law because I love him, scored a goal within eight seconds of a match starting. He was assisted by Leo Messi. And I just want to talk about this because I loved it and it brought me happiness. I love Mbappé. I honestly don't know why Jihad isn't already in France dating him. My daughter has something about university. I don't know. I do wanna say this though, that my kids are all over the place right now. Like, Saif moved into university, is gonna be residence don there, and loves it, and it's a new thing.
And I got to see him in his place yesterday, which is actually the size of my first apartment. It's huge. So it's really cool to be able to see him in that zone. It's bringing me a lot of joy, and I have somebody who's like last year of university and doing this like adult role. It still kind of freaks me out that I have a 22 year old. It's like bizarre, because in my head I'm 20, and I think Saif's maturity age is like 65, but he is like 22 years old. So it's like really funny to see us interact, because I'm like, let’s car dance to No Diggity! He's like, we don't need to do that right now, you need to pay attention because we're driving on the highway. Like, we have these kinds of conversations. Anyways, I love him dearly. He's very responsible and sensible and I'm kind of in awe that I have a child like that. And anyway, so that kind of stuff, my kids, I like them. I also got some sneak peeks from the wedding photos back, and they're very, very cute.
Brenda: Aww. Congratulations for the 4000th but not the last time.
Shireen: Thank you. I'm just, thank you very much. They're just fun. Also, last thing before I go. [laughter] Your eyelashes, Jessica.
Brenda: They are nice.
Shireen: Who I've now named Jessica “Flutters” Luther. Flutters is her new name.
Jessica: I have fake eyelashes that I'm deeply, deeply in love with.
Brenda: I wonder if we could put that on Patreon.
Jessica: Just make a gif.
Shireen: Can we just talk about your eyelashes?
Jessica: What is good with me, I'm going to New York City next week to see the first round of the US Open, and hopefully Serena Williams play tennis. I can't really believe it. Like, I feel like I'm saying it as a question here. It is happening. [laughter] So, I think until like I get there, maybe I won't really believe it, but I'm so excited about it. I think I would've deeply regretted not seeing her play. She's been so important to me. So, that is absolutely what is good. Also, I put together by myself a thousand piece puzzle over the last week, and that just is like, that hits all the Jessica Luther buttons right there. [laughter] So, that's very, very good for me.
Shireen: I know I’ve got too many. One last thing I've been watching season two of Indian Matchmaking on Netflix, and Sima from Mumbai, and I think I want to be her if sports journalism doesn't work out for me. I'm not successful with matchmaking, [laughter] but I just think that would be great.
Jessica: You're ridiculous.
Brenda: You just have…It’s just for you.
Shireen: Just for, yeah, I think there should just…The show is ridiculous. So Mark is like, what the fuck is going on here?
Brenda: I heard there's something, like there's a lot of attention given to the…is it Nick Jonas? Whatever one that used to be have chastity but now doesn’t?
Jessica: Didn’t they all have chastity?
Shireen: Oh, there is a comment by Sima. She doesn't like the Nick Jonas and Priyanka Chopra matchup. And I was internally happy when she said that. I don't think it's a great match, because I don't like Priyanka at all, the terrible politics she has. However, I like that Sima from Mumbai didn't like the match either. So there, Priyanka. Take your terrible BJP supportive…
Brenda: So that says something about your potential as a matchmaker, I think. Like, that bodes well.
Shireen: [laughs] But I'm not sure if I have the same politics as Sima the matchmaker, to be honest.
Brenda: Oh, okay. Well, now you're getting into the weeds.
Jessica: That support from you right then, Brenda, was so sweet.
Shireen: Yeah. I love you so much. [laughter]
Jessica: I’m really glad I got to witness that.
Jessica: What we're watching this week: the semifinals of the WNBA playoffs begin this weekend. In the world of soccer, catch the semifinals of the men's Copa Libertadores. The tournament goes until September 7th. The U-20 Women's World Cup semifinals are on Thursday, August 25th. The day this episode drops, Spain is playing Netherland at 6:30pm eastern. Brazil meets Japan at 10:00pm eastern. Third place match is Sunday, August 28th at 6:30pm eastern. The final at 10:00pm that night. The US Open, which will most likely be Serena's last grand slam, possibly last tournament ever, starts on Monday, August 29th, next week. And women's hockey worlds in Copenhagen, Denmark begin on August 25th, and goes until September 4th. From Shireen, our die hard Canadian fangirl, go Canada, reigning champs, mini explanation points. [Shireen laughs]
That's it for this episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon does our website, episode transcripts, and social media. You can find Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If you want to subscribe to Burn It All Down you can do so on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn, all of the places. For information about the show and links and transcripts for each episode, check out our website, burnitalldownpod.com. From there you can email us directly or go shopping at our Bonfire store and get some Burn It All Down merch. As always, an evergreen thank you to our patrons for your support. It means the world. You can sign up to become a monthly sustaining donor to Burn It All Down at patreon.com/burnitalldown. On behalf of all of us here, burn on and not out.