Hot Take: How to Watch Men's Champs League as a Feminist

Brenda and Shireen begin their hot take series on the UEFA Men's and Women's Champion's League. They discuss how to watch the men's tournament as a feminist, Messi's genius, and make predictions on the quarter finals. Bonus material: Shireen sings the Champ's League theme song.

Transcript

Brenda: Hello, and welcome to this hot take from Burn It All Down. I'm Brenda Elsey, and joined by my fabulous co-host, Shireen Ahmed. And we are here to talk about the Champions League!

Shireen: [singing] The champions!

Brenda: [laughs] They need a song, Shireen, really, right there. I think you and I need to come up with some kind of, you know, better theme song for the Champs League, men and women’s. 

Shireen: You know, if I ever get married again, I would walk down the aisle to that music. [laughter] I would not be above that. 

Brenda: Really?! 

Shireen: I love the Champs League. You know that.

Brenda: I do too. I do too. Before we get started, I want to ask you a meta question, which is as a feminist, today, we are talking about the men's UEFA Champions League, and we'll get to the women's in a moment, but how do you process that as a feminist? All this male glory in one place.

Shireen: I'm not going to lie. I've struggled with, you know, the crappy politics of UEFA, the crappy politics of La Liga, Serie A, the blatant racism. And at the end of the day, I really love football. So I sort of have to grapple, and I have decided to remain critical of these things and still absorb it, because is my life as an intersectional feminist as profound if I don't see Messi with those beautiful goals? Is it really worth it? Can I be as critical if I'm not going to appreciate Gabriel Jesus? Like, really. We'll talk about Man City, but I'm just saying. There’s a delight I have in a football community, that you're a part of, Brenda, online, that we banter about women's soccer, absolutely. But there's also a very beautiful community we have that do talk about men's soccer, from a perspective that's witty and relevant. So.

Brenda: Awesome. So, for listeners, just those of you who didn't see the news after 143 days, I believe, the Champions League is now back. And we have Barça advancing to 4-2 aggregate over Napoli. Yay! Lyon knocking out Juventus, double yay. Buh-bye, Cristiano. Man City knocking out Real, that was a little bit of a surprise to me, but not entirely. Maybe it shouldn't have been. And we can talk about what I think…Well, I'll say it right now. I think that that really says something about the state of La Liga and the fact that it just hasn't had maybe quite the intensity of competition coming back this season. And Bayern knocking off Chelsea, which I'm sorry, Chelsea fans, was really not a surprise to anyone. Shireen, what did you see? What did you like?

Shireen: I also wanted to add that Atlético beating out Liverpool was one that we didn't expect because we just think Liverpool's going to win everything. And they're not because Arsenal took the cup title. So, Liverpool just sort of felt like when they won the league, that they could just result in…Maybe Champs League for them is not as meaningful, which I don't believe, because they were semifinalists in that fated game in 2018, where Mo Salah got injured by Sergio Ramos, that we will never forgive Sergio for. But this is what I love about the Champs League. There's some unexpected stuff. And the usual that happens in the league doesn't occur here. And I was really happy to see Lyon beat Juve, because just, although, for those who have not heard the news, Andrea Pirlo is going to be coaching Juve now. And I tweeted out that I feel like this is some weird universal conspiracy to have like every pro footballer I've loved coach this man, like, what is happening there? Why do all the men I love have to coach this horrible rapey guy? Anyway, Bayern and Chelsea was boring. Like, it was just boring. We knew that Bayern was going to Bayern all over that. And Frank Lampard just looks like a sad little man. [laughter] I would be a sad little man too if I coached Chelsea, like, they can't compete. They can't hang. They just can’t. 

Brenda: Lewandowski though. Goodness.

Shireen: He’s…I mean, who was that said that Lewandowski should be more famous? I also feel like he's like Benjamin Button, isn't he like in his thirties? That man is old, I mean, in football years. But I mean, I think Bayern is just excellent. They're sharp. They're just sharp. That's all.

Brenda: Yeah, it was good. Yeah. I mean, they're just good. But it was boring. I saw the highlights, which felt like lowlights. 

Shireen: There were no clean sheets. So at least that was interesting. Like, that was at least like a second or two of hope and joy. I think it was 2-1 when Chelsea had scored. Barça and Napoli, I know you love them, but it just wasn't a fast paced game. It wasn't interesting at all. 

Brenda: The second half was really dull. I liked the first half. You know, Messi's gonna slow it down when he wants to slow it down. So there's a way in which, you know, the playmaker that he is, you could see…And Griezmann, like, what even is he? Like, they have got to stop with him. It doesn't work. [Shireen laughs] It hasn't worked. This relationship has terrible from the beginning. And I like him as a player and he's really quite good, but there's other people there that could have gone it, but I mean, he also slows it down just with bumbling. I mean, you know, there's just no tiki-taka with that man. 

Shireen: Chemistry is lacking, and I love Griezmann. Like, I love his style of play. I think he can be very clever when he wants to be. And I think that there's this youthful energy that doesn't get used well at Barça. And talk to me, Brenda, about Messi slowing down. There was some talk about him fumbling the dribble or whatnot, but I mean, his goal was him fumbling the dribble, losing the ball, falling down, getting back up and finishing. So, tell me your thoughts on an aging Messi.

Brenda: An aging Messi is like fine wine. [Shireen laughs] I mean, it's absolutely…That was one of the most beautiful goals that I've seen. I mean, I just don't know what kind of core imbalance you have to have. I mean, I don't know if he was falling down or getting up. But in whatever way, he was not fully upright. And he got enough power on that goal to…This is not a huge man, but he got enough power behind that ball to make it go in. And I was just, I was absolutely blown away. It was beautiful. I mean, people say, well, a younger Messi wouldn't have lost that ball. I don't know. There were five defenders. He pretty traditionally loses the ball and gets it back. That's kind of his MO. I don't think that he's slower on the burst. I don't think he's slower on his sprinting acceleration. I think he's slower in terms of how much he's going to run for you on that right side, the entire game, right? And he's not going to waste his energy like that. I mean, he's just sort of intuitively knows. I don't think he probably thinks about it.

Shireen: Well, I think there's a discussion to be had about experience. And I think that getting into his senior years at a place that he's been playing for two thirds of his life, I think it is…No, not my math is terrible. 

Brenda: Half. 

Shireen: Literally half of his existence.

Brenda: On the senior team.

Shireen:  Exactly. So he's been there for a while, but his knowledge can translate. Like, I mean, I'm not going out to compare myself to Messi, but as somebody who's been playing football for 35 years, there's things that you learn to do with your body as it ages that you rely on your experience as opposed to your speed or as opposed to something else. And I haven't touched a pitch since like five months because of COVID, but you know, you see yourself compensating in ways. And Messi is still the best of the best. I think he'll always be, and the fact that his game is maturing as he is shows an experience that we need to be in awe of, not critical of. And I'm also never going to criticize, like, I mean, I just…I don't know a player, and you sometimes he's boring, but I don't know a player that's more wholesome. What's more wholesome than Lionel Messi? [Brenda laughs] Like, I started following his wife on Instagram and they're just so freaking cute. Like, you know, bless them and their boys. And they're just like a normal family that has like everything Adidas, like, that's what I want. [laughter]

Brenda: Well, and it's fascinating to see him draw a penalty from Koulibaly like that. And I will say, I love him, and I am sad to see Napoli go, just for his sake. And he’s a graceful player.

Shireen: He's very underrated.

Brenda: But that was a mistake that just had to do with Messi being like, [teasing noise] na-na-na-na-na-na, I know how to get this penalty. Like, I mean, that's just foot work. I watched it a bunch of times, and I would also say, just next level, him letting Suarez take that kick while he tied his shoes. Did you see that? [laughter]

Shireen: Well, okay, so for those of you who don't know, Koulibaly is a player at Napoli, and what happened was he was in possession of the ball. So Leo, in his like brilliant defensive/offensive tactic, kind of tried to join his stride where he was actually about two steps behind, but he put his leg in. So when Koulibaly tried to strike the ball, he wasn't necessarily aware where Leo's legs were, Messi's legs were still, so when he struck, he got the back of Leo Messi's shin, and then Messi went down and then it was immediately a foul on Napoli. And I watched it, and I know that they considered it a pen, because it was in the box. But as a defender, you know, you have to be aware. I just didn't think it was the most fair call. But again, to Brenda's point, it's Messi, it's in the box. He's going to get a pen. And you know, Suarez was that eager student in the class that's like, “I want to take it! I want to take it!” Like, that's what he was doing. And I was like, fuck off. I hate that guy. [laughter] Ruthless that man is. But he finished it, right? 

Brenda: Oh, and he finished it and, again, when you say it was a boring game, I mean, there's no artistry to the way Suarez just sort of pounded that in. He was just like, yeah, I want to take it. You know, I feel like he just needs to let some of his anger go.

Shireen: It’s either that or biting people. [laughter] 

Brenda: Yeah, exactly. I think Messi's is just like, whatever. So, we should mention a couple of things then. This week is going to be huge because Wednesday we have Atalanta versus Paris, and Mbappé is ready to go. Woo! So that is really exciting. Thursday, Leipzig versus Atlético, which again, we were surprised about, and I have no idea…I don't know if you have any predictions. I would say Paris versus Atalanta for sure.

Shireen: I think judging by the scores of the previous games, like, I want to say, Di María is healthy, Mbappé's ready. Like, I think the bigger stars...But again, the Champs League, it doesn't necessarily translate to a win. I mean, I would put my money on PSG, but that's only because I'm obsessed with their women's side. But that doesn't say…As an Arsenal fan, I should know better than to do that, but I'm excited about that. Leipzig have done solidly, and this is a big thing for them, but you know what? Atlético show up to play in the Champs League. Like, they show up. And I think I'm interested. Barcelona and Bayern is going to be wild.

Brenda: That’s on Friday.

Shireen: That is on Friday and that's going to be really wild. Like, it's going to be hugely important, I'm going to anticipate, you know, it's going to be ter Stegen again and Neuer face off against each other, which is really, really, really interesting. And Neuer is now number two or number three on the German squad, like, he was demoted. He had a terrible world cup in 2018. And ter Stegen is number one now. So, I like ter Stegen more as that…I mean, Neuer is the quintessential – and Brenda and I can talk a lot about German goalkeeping. [Brenda laughs] This podcast, this particular segment is also the Nadine Angerer fan club podcast. But Neuer is a little bit extra and ter Stegen is more conservative as a goalkeeper, and the bar being Nadine Angerer, who is perfect. So, I think that it'll be really interesting to see how that works. Barça is a little bit slower for me. Bayern has a quick attack. They attack very quickly, and I'm going to anticipate goals immediately. And Barça’s defending needs to be…You know, on a scale of 1 to Piqué, it needs to be… [laughter]

Brenda: One.

Shireen: One. [laughter] 

Brenda: Piqué, please! Again, I think Barcelona, I don't think they're very well coached. I don't think that's a controversial opinion. I don't think they're using what they have. I don't see any technique other than, you know, throw Messi on and see what sticks. And that doesn't work! It's never worked for Argentina and it's not going to work for Barcelona. So unless they can get some game plans together, it's going to be a rough go. But I do think ter Stegen can come up so huge when he's just...You know, I've seen him just change games entirely for Barcelona when he’s in it. 

Shireen: What do you think about Man City-Lyon?

Brenda: I don't know enough about Lyon. Friend of the show Jermaine Scott is a big Man City fan. And so, I'm feeling that they're pretty pumped. I don't know enough probably about that matchup. What do you think Shireen? 

Shireen: One of the interesting things about this particular, if we just finished this leg, was Man City and Real Madrid, because Real Madrid are very broken, and it's not only because Cristiano Ronaldo left, because Juve is also broken. It's just, there's huge segments. And Zidane has to figure out what he can do with Mané to fill those gaps. And Modric, who I love, and I've spoken about before, look tired and old. And don't forget, this Champs League is going to fit differently because there was months where nobody was training and months that they weren't on the pitch together. And there's concern and there's players missing and there's anxiety about that probably from the players themselves. But Lyon is really interesting – another team that I know far more about the women's side than I do about the men's. And you know, that'll come out in the Champs League when we talk about the women's Champs League. But I think that Man City is coached by Pep Guardiola, former coach of Barcelona.

And Pep is a really good coach. There's no question. He knows in terms of how to set his team and set the pace of the match according. And he does a lot of study, a lot of study on how the other team functions and what their strengths are and how to best use one skill in relation to what's happening. And he moves quickly. Like, he will adjust as need be, and he's screaming. Like, he screams a lot on the sideline. He reminds me of like the junior school soccer coach, volunteer dad. But some places it works, right? And in Man City, I feel like it does that. Like, there's a sharp team there. You've got, you know, Raheem Sterling, who's up at the front. You've got Kevin De Bruyne, who's very, very effective. Like, I haven't seen a white dude play like that since Johan Cruyff. Like, I'm very impressed, very impressed with this Belgian. And it's not just because of Laurent Dubois, my friend, that I feel like I have to say this. He's very good. And De Bruyne plays well with his teammates, and Gabriel Jesus I was very impressed with also, he scored yesterday. 

Brenda: He’s excellent.

Shireen: There's passion in that Man City squad. And I appreciate that passion, and I like that Pep brings that out in people, and he brings the passion, which is lacking at Barça right now.

Brenda: Absolutely.

Shireen:  Where's the…And, you know, we'll see it at PSG. That's where Neymar is now. Like, we'll see pieces of it, but it's not in a cohesive form, but it’s at Man City. So I'm excited about that. I would put my money definitely on Man City for the Lyon game, but–

Brenda: I think they will get an asterisk going forward, because it's not clear they should even be competing. [Shireen laughs] I mean, they violated every financial…And we talked about it on BIAD before. So, I mean, I gotta say, you know, it's pretty crazy when UEFA makes a bunch of rules, enforces them, and then un-enforces them. Because it un-enforces them for the financial imperative. Which is exactly why they un-enforced them. [laughs]

Shireen: Could you just say...And you know this better than anyone, that UEFA UEFA’d themselves, like, that's exactly what they did.

Brenda: Yeah. And Man City was like, cool. We'll take it. [Shireen laughs] So, I mean, for those that don't know, Man City violated a bunch of financial regulations, was suspended from the Champions League, and then UEFA decided, you know, nah, it's cool, you know, COVID really like cut into our earnings, and so of they're back in. But I love seeing Pep. I think 90% of coaching is common sense, and it's that 10% that sort of means you're Marcelo Bielsa or, you know, you're me. And so I think Pep is an acolyte of him. I think he's really smart. So, I would put my money on him. So again, this week, August 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th. Those are those matches. So…Wait. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Saturday. So that's huge. And then the following week we have women's Champions League quarterfinals to look forward to. 

Shireen: Which will be amazing.

Brenda: They will be amazing. And thank you Shireen for joining me. This is an exciting time to see football back. So, burn on, not out, all you Champs League fans.