Hot Take: NWSL Challenge Cup final preview w/ Shireen and Lindsay

BIAD co-hosts Shireen Ahmed and Lindsay Gibbs look back at the NWSL Challenge Cup semifinals, and bread down the final between the Houston Dash and the Chicago Red Stars, which will take place on Sunday, July 26 at 12:30 p.m. ET on CBS and CBS All Access!

Transcript

Lindsay: All right. Hello, flamethrowers. Welcome. This is Lindsay Gibbs here with Shireen Ahmed. How are you, Shireen? 

Shireen: I'm okay. I'm good. I'm trying to be positive.

Lindsay: All right. Well, Shireen “Half Glass Full” Ahmed, that’s what I always say. [Shireen laughs] We are here, we want to talk a little bit about the NWSL. The semifinals were early yesterday, and then late last night, we've got a championship game all ready to go. And yeah, we want to talk about it. So, yesterday, on Wednesday, the Houston Dash defeated the Portland Thorns 1-0. I'm so sorry, Shireen. And then in a wild night game, the Chicago Red Stars defeated the Sky Blue FC 3-2. Let's start with Portland and Houston. Shireen, I know you love Portland. What did you see from that game, I guess starting with the Portland side, quickly – what do you think that team has to look forward to, and what can they improve on from this? 

Shireen: Well, I mean, I think Mark Parsons has done a great job. My only complaint with Portland is I just sort of felt like they seemed inconsistent. I mean, they're missing Tobin Heath, and so that's a big piece. I think that generally, you know, also Bella Bixby getting injured, tearing an ACL is a really big thing. Yes, that brought us…Britt Eckerstrom, who has been amazing, she had one of the most phenomenal performances I've seen and, you know, all good roads lead back to Nadine Angerer. And I think that all of us that know and have been watching women's football for years know who she is in the foundations and the strength of the goalkeeping. It's, you know, indisputable. Arguably, you know, Portland has the most experience in they have a lot of experience, more so than the Dash does in terms of playoffs. They've been to championships and they've been to finals more, but Houston was feisty. Rachel Daly adds a huge piece of, you know, sort of tenacity. And she is. She's tenacious. And I think everybody's tired. Like, I was tired of watching the matches.

Lindsay: [laughs] I’m so exhausted.

Shireen: But yeah, I know, it's exhausting. I was like, what is happening? And even when they fall down, I've noticed this particularly – and obviously it's a global pandemic, and the heat is stifling – but they fall down. And usually these players that I’m used to seeing jump up right again are down for a second or two. And that really struck me a lot. And I saw that during Portland’s match as well. Also, you know, all hail Sincy, but I felt like Portland needed to score early. I was preparing for a penalty shootout, like emotionally and mentally.

Lindsay: Because the quarterfinals…In the quarterfinals, three out of four of the games went to penalty shootouts.

Shireen: Yeah. And I was ready for that because of Eckerstrom. But I was like, what? They're going to come back. And I mean, I think it's easy in strategy and in football strategy, sometimes we say shoot early, depending on the team and the level of attacking. And we can talk about that for the second semi, but that didn't happen with Portland. Portland is not traditionally a score quickly team. They don't do that. And unfortunately they weren't able to come back. They weren't able to get back where you needed them to. Weaver, she's was great in the quarters, but she didn’t line up for me the way that I needed her to. And that's frustrating. 

Lindsay: And Lindsey Horan on the sidelines, sorry, just was–

Shireen: Yeah. Huge piece.

Lindsay: Missing her header action for sure. But yeah, I think like with all these teams, I'm excited. I think Portland's had a great past, and it's going to continue to be a factor in NWSL. But I think what you're seeing is the rest of the league’s getting better. And in order for any of these teams to keep up, right, they're going to have to keep improving. And that's a fun challenge. Houston though, I mean, what a tournament. They came in from the beginning of this tournament and said…You know, they've been one of the worst teams, and they said we want to win this tournament, and we think we can win this. Like, that's our goal. And I think a lot of people were like, okay, [laughs] cool. That's great. 

Shireen: I was that person, definitely.

Lindsay: [laughs] Yeah, I mean, you weren't alone. 

Shireen: And they have the most Canadians of all the teams. So then my heart is just like, you know, I love Sophie Schmidt. I do stan her. It's fine. But then again, I'm like, what's happening here when you're beating Portland? What's what's going on?

Lindsay: But I mean, all the credit in the world to the Houston Dash. I mean, I think what I see with them, it's just a team with such great chemistry. Like, you can tell, they're a team that wasn't as decimated last year. They don't have as many national team players. I don't think they have any US women's national team players. They do have some players who play for foreign national teams .But that means that, you know, during these big stretches where US women's national team players are gone, that their core stays together, you know? And I think that that's hurt them, but it's ultimately I think paid off in a tournament like this, where there wasn't there's not as much practice time. But these teams are going into their eighth game in a month, which is just absurd. Like, their seventh? Seventh I think, but anyways, whatever it is, it's exhausting. So, Rachel Daly, like you said, has been the star. She broke a 361 minute tournament-wide scoring drought with her header, late in the that semifinal. And of course the star of the show has been Jane Campbell in goal. She had one really bad game, but going forward, if you're going into penalty shootouts in this championship, you better feel good with her in the net.

Shireen: Jane Campbell's been solid. I mean, I feel like she's been solid. I didn’t see like the wild performance, like, I'm still very, very stuck on Eckerstrom for obvious reasons. But also, the communication you were saying, the chemistry with that team. They put in the work and it's coming to fruition now, particularly in Nichelle Prince. Like, I haven't seen Nichelle Prince perform like that for Canada the way she has for Houston. So it's simultaneously frustrating, but also like, wow. Her interweaving with Rachel Daly, I'm like, is this a Commonwealth team? [Lindsay laughs] Like, what’s happening with this? Like, they're really performing. And I was so happy to see Nichelle Prince. She's actually one of my favorites in terms of players who I love that don't perform like this for Canada. There's actually a team in my head about that. They didn't look gassed to me. This is the other thing. They looked exhausted, I felt that Portland was just exhausted. And this is going to be as much about fitness as anything else. Now, all the Riveters are gonna come after me and be like, wait, what are you talking about!? And I'm not saying anything bad about Portland. I will die on this hill. I love them. They're the greatest women's football team. But, but. It came down to match strategy, and Houston had the better match.

Lindsay: Yeah, they absolutely did. So, let's talk about the #NWSLAfterDark game [Shireen laughs] that we got late last night, which included two very quick goals in the beginning. We found all the goals that had been missing all tournament, I decided. So, you had two very quick goals by the Chicago Red Stars, who…Talking about this game is going to really confuse me, because I always get, like, since there's a Chicago Sky in the WNBA, and I talk about them so much, when Sky Blue and the Chicago Red Stars play each other, my brain just…So, apologies in advance for all the slip ups I will have.

Shireen: And on that note, the Sky was out there cheering for them in beautiful, beautiful…One of my favorite people on Twitter is Gabby Williams, who plays for the Chicago Sky, and she's just like, they love it. They're showing photos of them and videos from them from the Wubble, like, this cross sport support is everything. It's wonderful.

Lindsay: And we haven't seen it as much in women's sports, and a lot of that's because, you know, the NWSL has just been growing up in recent years. Do you know what I mean? But I think you're seeing across women's sports, from the fan side, from the media side and from the players’ side, this solidarity, you know? And not that it was ever like hatred, but I think everyone's busy and tired. [laughter] And I just think like, everyone's really realizing how much stronger…Sorry. It's very cheesy, but how much stronger we are when we all kind of root for one another. And it's been really great to see, like you said, the images from the Wubbe, of whether it's the Liberty players cheering on Sky Blue or, you know, Allie Quigley and Vandersloot giving the Red Stars a shout out. But anyway, yeah, so, to quickly go recap that game if I even dare, you had a quick couple of goals by Chicago to get up early. Things did not look good for the Sky Blue, but then towards the end, they scored two quick goals. [laughs]

Shireen: They freed Midge Purce! That's why. Like, why the fuck is she in the back? No one has answered that question. Why's Midge Purce in the back? I don’t know.

Lindsay: Well, it's for US women's national team reasons. Yeah. Look, that's one of the ongoing things, the conflict with NWSL, is that US Soccer still pays so many salaries and that's still the mega thing. So it's always going to have this hold over the NWSL, but is not ideal. And hopefully, you know, one day they will literally both be super powerful entities and, you know, we can we can be fighting about that. But anyways, Shireen, I don't even really know what to take from this, honestly, because it was so all over the place. So, let's start with Sky Blue, who we stan on the show. Alyse LaHue, general manager there, who was just taken that club from the basement in every single way in the league. [laughter]

Shireen: I'm a huge Alyse fan. Huge. I respect her. She's one of the front office folks who is so connected to the team, ear to the ground. I have so much respect for her, as like a business person, a supporter of women's sport. Like, just can't say enough. This has suddenly turned into the Alyse LaHue fan club podcast. That's what this has turned into.

Lindsay: Well, I feel like I have to give them, you know, she's such a big part of their turnaround, and even at the start of this tournament…So, they were missing both Carli Lloyd and Mallory Pugh, which, those are two pretty big pieces to be missing. And last year they, you know, haven't been that great. So there was not very high expectations, and their first couple of things they didn't even score and they looked really outmatched and it was really rough. And so then for them to finally, you know, Freya, their coach, kind of kept her...She said, I have a strategy here. There's a plan. She stuck to it. And you know, not only did they actually get a win in the group play, they ended up getting a win in the quarters and make the semis, which I think is just a place that nobody saw them. But who did you see from Sky Blue? What pieces of Sky Blue are are you going to take from this tournament before we move on to the powerhouse Red Stars? 

Shireen: Well, I have a WhatsApp group with Meg Linehan and Steph Yang and we’re always throwing around ideas, and Steph had said something that stuck with me, that she thinks Kailen Sheridan should be the starter for Canada. Kailen Sheridan is Sky Blue's keeper, and she's number three, she's three string goalie for Canada right now. Steph Labbé of the Courage is number one. And Kailen’s performance has been really, really solid. I mean, Chicago is a tough team, and I'll be very honest with you, when Sam Kerr left, I was like, aw. That's too bad for them. They're done. They're not done! Sam Kerr is thriving at Chelsea, but this team’s doing just fine.

Lindsay: They have Julie Ertz. You're never done with Julie Ertz. [laughs]

Shireen: No, see, then again, I'm not like a card carrying member of Julie Ertz fan club. I'm not. I think she just plays a very American style of football. She bulldozes through everything, which is great if you're a defender, but I like a little more finesse with my defending.

Lindsay: I like all bulldozing. I’m very American in that way. [laughter] 

Shireen: Yeah, which is great, like, which is fine. However, I think that there's pieces of me that, you know, I watch European women's football as well and I love that. I love all of that. Like, if we're going to go into discussions about Sky Blue, I think they play a game – and this is what I love about them – they play a style of football, of women's soccer, that actually matches the strength of their players. And I know that's not a difficult jump to make, and it's what ideally they should be doing, but they put it into action. And Julie Ertz plays with her strengths, literally. And I think that pushing that forward, I think Savannah McCaskill is one of the hardest working woman in soccer that I've seen play. She just gives and gives and gives. Every time I see her, I'm like, wow. And I feel like she played like that when she was in middle school and high school and uni, like, she just gives and gives. And I love seeing it come together. I mean, her goal, I was happy for her because she's not a superstar. She's not. She’s not one of like, you know, the country’s foremost football players. She's not. But she should be. I like her work ethic. So I mean, Sky Blue, again…I know I'm flipping between teams. 

Lindsay: Yeah, we’re both flipping back. So, McCaskill, I think she used to be on Sky Blue, right? But now– 

Shireen: A long time ago, yeah. I think she's been at Chicago at least three seasons, I’m pretty sure.

Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. They kept referring to it as her former team last night. But but really quickly, before we fully move on from Sky Blue, I just want to give a shout out to someone who's really kind of a breakthrough performer, was Jennifer Cudjoe, the 26 year old Ghana native, who just had a short term contract for the Challenge Cup and all of a sudden midfield just was phenomenal. And look, I think there's been a lot of criticism over the Purce decision and where she's playing, but Freya Coombe has really stuck to it as part of her longterm strategy, and is I think making it work, even though it might not have been her first choice of things to do. And ultimately I'm really excited for the future of Sky Blue. And I think that any team that's kind of doing things right…Doing things right off the field will translate to on the field, right? Players want to play there now. They're going to be in Red Bull next year. You know, there's an exciting future for this team. And should we move on to Chicago? 

Shireen: Yeah. [laughter]

Lindsay: We’re good? So, they scored three goals. Well, four, if you include Julie Ertz’s own goal. And yeah, I mean, they didn't even have Casey Short out there as one of their best players. Hopefully she'll be good to go in the final. But you know, they looked so dominant, and after seeing them…I was at the championship game last year, saw them loose 4-0 to the Courage, and saw them…You know, then saw Sam Kerr left, and I didn't think they were done, but I didn't think that maybe they would bounce back as quickly as they did. I think they've had a really great game plan. They've done a great job managing their players. I think Alyssa Naeher is one of the toughest minded goalies in the league and has really kind of kept her shit together.

Shireen: I've said repeatedly through the Challenge Cup that I saw her play last year, and the maturation of her game, of her poise, of her confidence has struck me. Like, I kept saying last year on our hot takes and stuff that I thought she was the weakest link in the US women's national team. I still believe that last year I feel she was. I don't think her confidence level was where it is now. Now Chicago has done so much for that. I think she deserves to be in the final. I really do. I think that that team…Although, like, you know, not everybody can be a squad full of Saki Kumagais or Shanice van de Sandens, but like, you know, and I say that, you know, tongue in cheek about finesse on Chicago Red Stars. But that being said, I think Naeher is coming along. She's maturing. I wouldn't be surprised if she was the number one keeper in the next couple of years. I wouldn't be surprised at this. I mean, barring Adrianna Franch’s recovery.

Lindsay: Or anyone in Portland, it seems. [laughs]

Shireen, Yeah, anyone. Oh my god. And I think one of the things that I want to speak to about, you know, just this program in general and women's soccer in the United States is the high level that there is, is because if Britt Eckerstrom can't even make the US national team, and her performance is undoubtedly and arguably one of the best we've seen in goalkeeping, look how strong the program is in the United States. And that's something that everybody can be really proud of, but also create spaces for people to keep getting involved and keep doing that. Like, it will only get better. And Naeher is just fantastic. I also will never recover…She’s so cute, when they won and her team came running out, and she was like, everybody chill, everybody be cool.

Lindsay: Because she hadn't been saved a goal. Like, this was in the quarterfinals, there was a shootout. And she didn't save one. The only miss what I think off of a crossbar. 

Shireen: Yeah, it was a post, yeah.

Lindsay: But of course, her team came in to really congratulate her and just typical Alyssa, she was like, no, no. And then finally she just gave in, and I joked it's like me and you sometimes, Shireen. [laughter]

Shireen: But the other thing too, is that like when we look at the technical aspect of goalkeeping, the way you stand, the way you psych out the person taking the pen is huge. Her presence in the net is intimidating. And these are all factors, including the pen taker – who, where they stand, what they look like, which way she's jumping, which way she does this. And, you know, people discount how much that a goalkeeper has to do with that. And yes, I'm the mother of a goalkeeper [Lindsay laughs] and I've learned a lot in the last six years about the technique. Because I've always been a forward. Like, I'm a striker and that's pretty much it. But I think that that has been really beautiful. Fantastic goalkeeping is another huge takeaway for me in this. And we definitely saw it, strength from Sky Blue, from Portland. Yes, from Dash. Yes, from all of them. For me, that's the underlining theme here from all these teams that played in the semis, was the goalkeeping was fantastic.

Lindsay: Absolutely. And another Chicago player I want to…St-Georges has had a great tournament. She's been so fun to watch. You know, these players who are getting back from injury, do you know what I mean? I think like one of the things that’s discounted when we talk about, like, these players could have not done anything this month and still gotten paid, right? Because that's the way the contract works out. They could have done absolutely nothing. And I think that it just shows not only just like how much they want it, but how few opportunities there are, right? And that they knew, like, this is a rare opportunity. If I'm healthy, I want to be out there. I want to be with my team. I want to see if I can prove something both to the national team coach who is sitting right there in the stands the whole time, but just also to myself and to my team and to the world, because like you said, there is so much talent brimming up and down these rosters. 

You can have someone sign a short term contract and become a star. You've got to hold onto your spot, right? You've got to show up. And it's been inspiring to see these women do this under really difficult decisions when arguably they shouldn't have had to do it at all. And also, another Chicago player who I really do hope gets a goal, because she's gotten so close, is Kealia Watt, who has just been another player I’ve loved seeing. And it's funny, she's had a few opportunities where you can see she gets overexcited and just misses, [laughs] like, it's just a little too much on it. I'd love to see her. Quickly, as quickly as we do anything, what do you see in the final, Dash versus Red Stars? We're going to have a new champion, so that's exciting. 

Shireen: Yeah, I think that – and this is a big prediction. What I really love about both these teams is they haven't peaked. They may not have. I think they're on the verge of it. I feel like my gut is telling me that Chicago will win, and this isn't just because I love Sandra so much and she's been fantastic, but I haven't drunk the Kool-Aid. But I said this on Twitter, my pettiness will outweigh my national pride. And although Houston, like I said, has the most amount of Canadians, you know, people like Bianca St-Georges, get on that train. So, I really don't know. It also would be really interesting for me not to be emotionally involved in a final. That's always fun for me, because the team that I love never actually gets to the final. So it'll be great for me to sit back and not be as wrought with like emotion and just watch the match. I do feel like, at this point, I feel right now that Chicago would probably take it, but you never know. Like you said, Campbell and then people stepping up in there. You never know. You never know.

Lindsay: Yeah. I'm honestly excited. I think we're gonna see…You know, look, we all know Shireen’s soccer bonafides are much, much deeper than mine, and I would never pretend to. I am very much the American who grew up watching the NFL and not soccer. And I liked scoring and I liked things and I’ve evolved a little bit. But three straight scoreless games was a lot for me. So… [laughs]

Shireen: It's boring. And I mean, like last night, when there was goals from both teams, like, what we had last night – and Lindsay was so happy, because you're like, what is going on? Because we hadn't seen it. This is exactly what football can be and should be. It was a riveting match. I mean, I had some technical problems with my CBS last night. Like, it kept stalling on me. So then I'm like screaming at my kids to get off the internet. [Lindsay laughs] It’s like, Shireen mom-ing and watching football is not a pretty picture sometimes, but like, you know, I'm excited. I could watch it with Jihad and I was just really hopeful. And what soccer does is that it, you know, in the 78th minute, they score. And Midge Purce scores. And then I'm like, [gasps] it could be it, it could be it! Because we've seen that in history. We've seen those comebacks, like, they’re riveting, they're phenomenal. And then it doesn't happen, but that hope is there.

Like, penalty kicks are just exhausting. They're absolutely….You know, you're fraught with emotion and you're just...You can't handle it. But it was it was just great. I hope we get a match like that. Like, if we get a penalty shot type of final, I'll be really disappointed. I want to see it play out like it was yesterday. And basically the second semifinal for Challenge Cup gave fans what they really wanted, you know? Because you're right. And Lindsay, I think this just speaks to you saying what your tradition is, you know, of sport and watching NFL. This is the beauty of the NWSL. It can draw everybody in, and that's the important thing. Like, I mean, I really hope there'll be a day where you text me and be like, oh my god, did you see the Wolfsburg goal? You know, like, I really hope that… [laughs] No.

Lindsay: One day at a time, Shireen. One day at a time. But listen, I've come a long way. Everyone mocks us Americans being like, soccer’s so low scoring and stuff. But it helps to have a little excitement.

Shireen: Oh yeah.

Lindsay: And this is going to be a big deal in the States, this game was going to be on CBS proper. So the very first game of the tournament was on CBS and drew half a million viewers. And so this one's going to be back on television, on CBS. And so, you know, a lot of pressure on their shoulders. They're playing for all of us, and I'm excited to see what Houston and what Chicago pull up. And I think that hopefully the nation is going to be exposed to a lot of really exciting and feisty players that they don't know their story and they're just going to fall in love with the game more.

Shireen: Yeah, I can't wait to see that. I mean, for me, during the pandemic, CBS all access was the easiest, easiest purchase I made.

Lindsay: Yeah. Best $6, yeah. [laughs]

Shireen: Best $6! And like, the air fryer was really not necessary that I did get, [laughter] but CBS all access…Just pandemic purchases. But I think this one has been wonderful. And of course you and I have talked about this, that there's that level where we feel stressed out. We want everyone to be safe in a pandemic, because we realize there is a pandemic, but at the same time, these women play their hearts out and are giving us so much joy and I'm so happy and so grateful to that. But also, you know, CBS coverage has been huge. And I can tell you, undoubtedly, I never would have bought CBS ever if it wasn't for women's soccer. No way I would've bought it. 

Lindsay: You're getting your Toronto inroads right here, CBS. This is good. [Shireen laughs] You have your Toronto spokeswoman. Well, yeah, I think we can just say on the safety note, just, you know, kudos to what the NWSL has done and getting through this month and in going first. It’s been difficult in so many ways and I'm excited for hopefully a really thrilling conclusion. And you know, we'll talk to you guys later. Everyone tune in on the 26th at 12:30 pm eastern on CBS.

Shireen: Wait, that’s on Sunday or Saturday? 

Lindsay: That’s Sunday.

Shireen: Finals on Sunday? I thought it was on Saturday. 

Lindsay: Not according to the NWSL website. [laughter]

Shireen: Oh wow. I tweeted out that it's on Saturday, and people are going to be mad. [laughter] Thank you for this.

Lindsay: Hopefully you not the only person they're getting their news from.

Shireen: Oh, dear! Okay.

Lindsay: And honestly, Shireen, I'm glad we did this hot take. So. [laughs]

Shireen: Yeah, same here. And I said to my family, nobody talked to me on Saturday, but I'll just ride that. So that’s fine.

Lindsay: Yeah. You might not want to change that. [laughter] Extended it a day. All right. Thanks, flamethrowers. Bye!