Hot Take: Stanley Cup Playoffs - the Life of a Montreal Canadiens Fan

The Montreal Canadiens

are headed to the Stanley Cup Finals for the first time in 28 years. What is it like for their fans? Shireen chats with one particular die-ard Habs fan: Her Maman. Dr. Tahira Ahmed joins Burn It All Down for this Hot Take on the ups and downs of being a Habs fan for almost 50 years.

This episode was produced by Shireen Ahmed and Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Shireen: Hey, flamethrowers, it is Shireen, and we are gearing up for what may be the most exciting Stanley Cup finals that we've seen in a long time – and in particular since 1993. As you know, I have tried to break up with the Montreal Canadiens for a while, even talked about it in a recent piece that I wrote for The Walrus magazine on how I felt that the team wasn't reflective of my principles and how I feel about justice in general. However, this is a team that's tough to part with, particularly when being a Habs fan is in my blood. Today to discuss the Habs going to the Stanley Cup finals against Tampa Bay Lightning for this season, I have on probably the most compelling, interesting, and fabulous Habs fan that I know. I'm so excited for the first time to have Dr. Tahira Ahmed on the show. Welcome, mom.

Tahira: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Shireen: So, maman, that Habs: how long have you been a fan of the bleu-blanc-rouge? How long? 

Tahira: I have been a fan since 1972.

Shireen: Okay. That's a long time.

Tahira: 49 years to the day!

Shireen: Can you explain to me how the Montreal Canadiens came to be in your life?

Tahira: Okay. So, I came to Canada in 1972. I was married, 22 years old, was in med school, and my husband had just finished his university and got a job with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. We lived in on Springline Drive  in Ottawa, near Mooney's Bay. And then we were poor students, of course. We didn't have cars. Lots of loans and had to work. So, a friend gave us a black and white TV because my husband said, you know, we watch the Stanley Cup. Now, I didn't know a lot about the Stanley Cup, but I knew a little bit. And how I knew was that there was a Canadian couple in the northern part of Pakistan in Khyber where I come from, and they were Major and Mrs. Doddridge. They had a son Chris, who was my age, and the Doddridges got to know my dad from our local club in that city where a lot of Europeans and North Americans and maybe some Canadians came.

So my dad, as he was very hospitable, he invited the Doddridges to come and have dinner, and they loved our home and my mother and myself, and Chris told me about skating. And I said, but I do roller skating. He said, no, no, no. They’re sharp blades and you skate on ice. And I said, what!? On ice? And he said, yeah, I'm going to show you. So, Chris showed me a couple of pictures of different hockey teams playing. And I couldn't really remember the Habs then, but he said to me, well, there's a team in Montreal that plays very well. So I said, okay. And things were forgotten and the Doddridges moved back to Canada and I forgot about them.

So when I came and my husband told me, he said, why don't we watch the game? And suddenly this thought came to me. I said, oh, Chris told me about it. Yes, I'm interested. So we used to sit and watch the games. And the Habs, of course, I saw their red sweaters, and also they had a darker color uniform before, 50 years ago. And I saw Henri Richard, I saw  the Mahovlich brothers. [Shireen laughs] I saw Ivan Cournoyer. I saw Larry Robinson, and Ken Dryden was the goalie. And he eventually I think became a lawyer, and he practices…Or he's probably retired now. So, you know, I was glued to the TV, and I used to watch these, and I fell in love with this team. You know, it reminded me of the colors of Canada – I'm a new immigrant, came here, I got attached.

So every time the Habs played, I'm not going out. I want to watch the game. And my husband said, well, what's going on here? [Shireen laughs] “We need to go for a walk, we need to go to Mooney's Bay to the beach…” I said no, no, no. The game is going to start! And this little black and white TV is what we'd move around and shake it and it would go blurry and then we'd watch it again. And I just kept praying, please, God, let me watch the game before this TV explodes or doesn't catch what we are trying to do. And then, you know, the new players came and they went and at that time the Habs and the Chicago Blackhawks were in competition. They were an amazing team. And I suppose they went and played against the Blackhawks, and many times the Habs got the Stanley Cup. 

Shireen: Yeah. Since you moved in ’72. So, the Stanley Cup has been awarded to the Montreal Canadiens 24 times. But you came in ’72, and literally you came at the beginning of another glory period where consecutively for years and years up until ’93, arguably, there was almost a dozen wins. So, do you think it's a coincidence that you came to this country and they started winning when you got here? 

Tahira: [laughs] I don't know. I believe I'm a lucky person. This is what I've done in this playoff, you know, praying and encouraging and screaming and excited and, you know, even at my age, they fascinate me. I just think that they were, at that time, they were gentle, kinder. They weren't vicious. They weren't volatile. They weren’t–

Shireen: –Like the Bruins, right?

Tahira: No, the Habs. 

Shireen: Yeah, no, I'm saying like the Bruins were a little bit vicious. 

Tahira: Oh, they were, and they'd whack their stick and hit the puck in your face. And don't forget that at that time, a lot of players, like I remember Henri Richard, didn't wear a helmet. These helmets came for protection later. So the Mahovlich brothers didn’t, Ivan Cournoyer didn’t, many other awesome players, they would just skate, just beautifully. And then comes in numbers ten: Guy Lafleur was my heartthrob. He was a gentle Canadien who was from Thurso, Quebec, where my sister-in-law hails from – no relation. But he was just a beautiful smooth skater, fast, and I said, whoa! You know, that’s set. I just liked the gentleness, the beautiful way that he played. And I said to my husband, that's my favorite. He's going to be my favorite player.

So whenever Guy Lafleur scored, I was just on top of the world. And I decided at that time, okay, there was another team in Quebec, Quebec Nordiques. Later. And then as time went on and of course I finished medicine and went on to my internship and I was sort of detached a little bit because I would come back from calls and there's no way I was going to watch a game, I needed to sleep. And what happened that after these multiple majestic wins, suddenly something went wrong. The air came out of the sails of the Habs. They changed head coaches and coaches and things like that, and the team just didn't do well.

They were losing to just, you know, teams…Now it's not, when I was watching them, it wasn't like it’s played this year, like the Canadians played Canadians and then the Americans and perhaps, I don't know why they changed that format–

Shireen: Because of COVID, is why. [laughs] 

Tahira: Because of COVID, yeah. Then they would play each other, and they were always losing. And I was disappointed and disappointed. Over a period of time, the players that I loved – Henri Richard, the Manovlich brothers – were traded, Ivan Cournoyer left. And then number ten, Guy Lafleur, continued to play, but the team wasn't cohesive and weren't what I dreamt of and what they were like in the early 70s and 80s. And at times I've thought, okay, maybe I'm going to give up. They're losing. They don't make an effort. What's wrong with them? I think I'm just tired of their losses. They don't even go beyond to even enter the playoffs.

Shireen: So, I have a question for you, before we go up to the part where they start losing and then come out of that glory, because 1993 is the last time that the Habs were in the Stanley Cup finals and the last time they won. Now, the question that I have is that you also produced two Montreal Canadiens fans, one being mean one being my brother, Sulemaan. So, how did that come to be? Did you watch games with us when we were…I remember you being the most exuberant fan – and you're very composed, professionally. You have to be, in medicine.

But there's a side of you when you watch sports that's like a little, you know, a little bit gregarious, a little bit emphatic in your celebrations. And I take after you, I'm grateful for that. But was that something that…Because I remember there's this photograph that you have of me and my brother when we played hockey when we were little and we have jerseys on that looked like Montreal Canadiens jerseys. So, did you specifically put us in that club so we would wear those jerseys? Because I grew up in Halifax and that forum, the Halifax forum, wasn’t very close to home. 

Tahira: Yeah. Okay. So, you're five years old in that photo. And of course there's no other way I was going to put any jersey on you [Shireen laughs] than a Canadiens jersey. And who I love are the Habs, of all the teams. And so when you were five you started, you and your brother, to go to skate, you know, learning skating in this club, private. The managers said girls don't play with boys, and if you put Shireen here she has to wear a helmet and her ponytails have to be stuck inside, inside the helmet. And I said, I don't care. You were doing figure skating at the time, but you didn't like it. You wanted to play hockey. So I said, okay guys, I bought you hockey jerseys and you were playing full gear. And you loved it, and nobody knew you were a little girl.

So many weeks or months after when the season you guys playing in the club was almost over, you took your helmet off. And two mothers come passed me by and she said, [gasps] oh, she's a girl! And I said, so? Does it make a difference? We don't make differences between any gender. And they looked at me and I don't know whether they went and reported that you were a girl playing with these boys and the owner or whoever was in charge they said, listen, the season is ending – just lecturing – play.

So then you played, so when the season started with the Habs, of course, this was a family sort of treat that you and your brother would sit with me and your dad and watch the game. And obviously the Habs were leading at that time when you were little, and we would just encourage you. And then Sulemaan learned very quickly, and so did you, where each player was and what they were doing and what penalties meant and what offside meant and everything, right? So really, did you have a chance to like other teams? Maybe. We didn't encourage you. We did not encourage you to like American teams. We were Canadian, and you were going to like a Canadian team, but it wasn't that we were insisting. You guys just grew into it and you guys became fans of the Habs.

Shireen: I remember when Patrick Roy was in his rookie year, they won the Stanley Cup in ’86. I remember it was his rookie year and they won, and I still remember thinking how you felt about Lafleur I felt about Roy, and all through middle school, all through high school I was obsessed, until he got traded. He left for the Nordiques and went to the Avs, the Colorado Avalanche. The Quebec Nordiques, for those don't know, ended up in ’95 becoming the Colorado Avalanche. So, you're right. It was basically in my blood. And so one of the things that I love, one of my favorite stories, is about your day, your favorite day as a Habs fan and how that happened, who you met. And how excited were you?

Tahira: Okay, so of course, we being in Nova Scotia, me working full time, your dad working full time and our holidays were planned ahead when you were little. So, we actually had a little bit of difficulty in trying to meet the timelines when the playoffs started. So we couldn't go. And this was a dream that I wanted to see my favorite players, and as time went on and I grew older, well, I thought, okay, these players are older than I was. So one day our son called us. He was working in I think either in Montreal or Toronto. And he said, mom, I'm giving you and dad a surprise. By then you were married, you had your children. He had his children. So we had a bunch of grandchildren, of course. And knowing the excitement, all the grandchildren opted to be Habs fans.

Shireen: Did they have a choice though? Because you know, their grandma…

Tahira: They did, [Shireen laughs] but they chose something, like, I'd wear my Habs jersey occasionally when playoffs were on and things like that. And though it was a low peak for the Canadiens, but still they were somewhere along the line. So our son called us and he said, mom, I'm going to give dad and you a surprise for your anniversary. And I said, oh, well, that already is gone. And he said, no, no, I was planning this, so I'm inviting you to Montreal. And one of his friends or something, Bobby Rousseau, who played with them and, you know, the history that they won five goals against the Detroit Red Wings. So he said Bobby really wants to meet with you and dad, and his wife and son and blah, blah, blah. They're really insisting that you come. They said it would be very pleasant for Tahira and Saleem.

And so we went there and we went to see the game. I was so nervous as hell. I told him, I said, buy as many popcorn as you want, because I need to eat while I'm watching the game. And of course I wore my red jersey. Before we went in, my son said, well, we’ve got about an hour and a half before. So I said, well, I thought you got very good seats. Why do we have to do that? And he said, no, there is another reason why. So we go there and he takes us through this building, and here we are at the private dining room of the Habs. [Shireen laughs] And it's a reserved table, and of course we met Mr. Rousseau and his wife, and they were very happy to meet us. So we sit down for dinner–

Shireen: Were you a little starstruck? You met Bobby Rousseau!

Tahira: Yes. Yes. And Mrs. Rousseau and their son, and so we are all having dinner and it was a lovely meal, but I couldn't eat because I was excited. I just wanted to go to the arena.

Shireen: So this was the Bell Centre, because you'd never been to the forum. You'd never been to the forum before. 

Tahira: No, never. So we go and then they said, well, we still have 15 minutes, so maybe we should go to the lounge for the players. And I'm saying, oh, come on! I want to go there. I want to see these people. And then by Bobby said to me, well, you might have a surprise. And I said, and what is that? And he said, Guy Lafleur is going to be there. I said, what! And he said, yeah, one or two or three of them, you may be able to meet them. And Shireen, being a physician, my heart just kept skipping beats. And I said, okay. So I'm very careful. And I went in and we met Ivan Cournoyer and I told him about that. And he said, yeah, he was an older man. And you know, we are both middle aged now, and I told him about the games that I watched, and he was impressed with all these names of players that I remembered. [Shireen laughs]

Then comes this guy, and I looked at him and I said, oh my gosh, this was Guy Lafleur! Now, Guy Lafleur was skinny with long brunette hair reaching his shoulders. And here he was, quite healthy, shall we say! And he came and looked at me and then Bobby Rousseau said, you know, this is Dr. Ahmed, and she's been your fan for a long time. And I just said, oh my god, I'm so excited to meet you! And I said, I have been your fan for over 45 years. So he looked at me and he said, “But I'm 42!” [laughter] And I said, no, you're not! No, you're not. But anyway, he stood beside us, and then Mrs. Rousseau said, would you mind having a picture? And he said, no, not with this beautiful lady wearing a Habs jersey. Then we took a picture and I was so excited. We took a picture with Ivan Cournoyer and whatever, and then he said to me, do you want me to sign your jersey? Yes, please! This will be amazing. So, you know, he signed my jersey.

Shireen: And you were wearing a number ten.

Tahira: Yes. I was wearing a number ten. That's the only jersey I ever wanted was number ten. So he signed it, and he thanked me for remembering number ten, and I said of course, you know, you'll always be my favorite hockey player. So he said, okay. And then we just chatted a bit and then it was time to go. So we went to the arena and we had amazing seats, maybe three seats or four behind the players. So I could physically see their faces, right?

Shireen: Who did they play that night? 

Tahira: Tampa Bay Lightning! [laughs]

Shireen: Ohh! That's kind of a foreshadow of the Stanley Cup finals, isn’t it?

Tahira: Yeah. And you know, they won the game, Shireen! They won in overtime. And I'm telling you I was on air the whole time. We went to the hotel, I kept saying to Saleem, I cannot sleep! And it's late. I just couldn’t. And everything was in my vision of that day and how they played, and somehow it came back, the years between ’70 and ’90. [Shireen laughs] So, unfortunately, after that game they didn't make it. But for me it was a dream come true.

Shireen: I mean, I love that story. This is kind of leading into my next question about…And of course I know the answers to these, but we haven't actually haven't had a chance to discuss this upcoming playoff that’s starting. What is it like for you after being a fan for almost 50 years to have this opportunity after 28 years to…And then we're going to talk about the team, but first let's talk about what it means to you that the Montreal Canadiens are in the Stanley Cup finals. 

Tahira: So, when the season started, they weren't very lucky. And sometimes I think, well, I I'll never say they never played well, but there was competition, and they weren't least expected to even be in the playoffs. They were the last team that was in the east. So I used to tell my son, I said, Sule, why don't we cheer for the Winnipeg Jets? [Shireen laughs] I like them. And he said, mom! But you know, Jets, there's no way I was going to…Sorry, but I was not going to be supporting the Maple Leafs, for some reason. I don't know why. They never did anything to me! [laughs] 

Shireen: No, because you’re a Habs fan! You can’t cheer for the Leafs!

Tahira: I’m a die-hard Habs fan. I can’t do the Leafs. It's too close for comfort. [Shireen laughs] I will choose Wininpeg. And I was talking with my son and we were just walking one night in Windsor, and I said, honey, you know, I'm tired. I'm tired of praying for them. I'm tired of them losing, it's been 20-some years for crying out loud. When are we going to have them succeed, and why, why don't they hire proper managers and coaches? Look, why don't they get younger players here? Things like that. And then I was upset for two other things, and one was Max,  you know, their player that they traded and got I think Suzuki–

Shireen: Yeah. Nick Suzuki.

Tahira: Okay, him. And then I was upset about the player that was racialized, in Boston. Well, I started hating the Boston Bruins after that, you know, because he was an amazing player and then the Habs traded him. So he's now with another–

Shireen: Are you talking about PK Subban?

Tahira: I’m talking about PK, yeah.

Shireen: Oh yeah. Who was racially abused in Boston.

Tahira: And I liked him, and I used to…I didn't mind the Boston Bruins, but from that day on, I said, okay, I'm not even going to care. You guys, you don't treat people like people. Forget it. 

Shireen: So, you were not thrilled when Nick Suzuki and Max Pacioretty were traded. You didn't like that trade initially?

Tahira: I didn’t like it because Max was the captain of the house at the time, right? And then PK was just traded, and it was bad. So then I said to my son–

Shireen: Well, PK was traded a couple of years ago.

Tahira: Yeah. That was a while ago.

Shireen: But you were still saying that you still had a little bit of…Not resentment, but feelings about that whole incident.

Tahira: Of course I did, because you know, for me, I've never ever even thought about people of color or differences in gender. No, no, no. Everybody has the same skeletal network and same blood vessels and same nervous system. Skin is an important organ, the largest organ, but it's not important when you are talking about people or, you know, whatever. So I was upset about that, and my son just said, well, don't worry, mom. Let's see. So when they got in and they were able to get in the playoffs I said, yeah, that's it! So now my son is telling me when I'm talking to him and they started playing and he said, you know what? They are not…The Maple Leafs are gonna cream them. And I said, nope, they won't. We've got a few young people, a mixture of young and old is going to work. No, they won’t! 

Shireen: So, I’m assuming that Nick Suzuki has grown on you because he's done some fabulous things.

Tahira: He’s done awesome. Anderson, another player, then my little Cole Caufield, he's there and then, you know, a whole bunch of them. And then they sort of…They’ve grown and worked together. Of course Carey Price, I've watched him for a while and I really like him, so I don't think there's anyone as good as him anyway. But that’s maybe…This is my opinion.

Shireen: That's your bias. It's okay. 

Tahira: My big bias. Yeah. 

Shireen: We love Carey Price. He's not only an Indigenous athlete, but he’s one of–

Tahira: Yeah, his mom is Indigenous and she's now probably…He said that she is the…

Shireen: She’s the chief of the first nation. 

Tahira: The chief, yeah. Then I told my son, I said, no, no, I'm just going to pray. I'll pray for them. And I want them to win. So they started playing every second night. Faithfully I sat, turned the TV on, and I'm watching. Okay. And eventually they beat the Leafs and then he said, oh, well, okay mom, there's some time luck works. And I said, no, but you should know how to play as a team. They're not as cohesive. And I don't find them…They’re getting confused in the last game or so. And he said, okay, mom, okay. Then there comes the Winnipeg Jets. [Shireen laughs] So then my son said, well, you know, the Winnipeg Jets will cream them. I said no. I watched game one and I said, I don't think so. So, you know, in four straight games, they ousted them–

Shireen: They swept them!

Tahira: They swept them, and then they're off. So then they went and played with these Americans that they had a couple of days of rest, and then they went and played with Las Vegas, right? The Golden Knights. And you know what happened here. So every day I used to check my blood pressure. I'll make sure I take my pills because now with old age where I don't get that emotional, but I do, I just…You know, they sort of create this energy in me and I don't leave the television from start to finish. 

Shireen: And nor do you accept phone calls even from your daughter?

Tahira: No, I don't. I'm sorry.

Shireen: It's okay. It's okay. One of the things that–

Tahira: I watched the commentary at the end, and…I mean, I understand, practicing psychiatry, I know that there's negatives and positives, but I like what I hear. And sometimes I'll say, okay, they're a little too confused. Sometimes I have a FaceTime with my son and I talked to him while the game's going on. And I say, okay, stop. I'm too busy right now. I want to focus on it. So, has it been exciting? This month has been amazing.

Shireen: I'm so happy to hear that. In fact, I love that you watch the commentary so much that Bob McKenzie, one of TSN’s greatest hockey pundits and commentators, actually wrote about you in his book, Everyday Hockey Heroes. [Tahira laughs] He talked about you loving the Habs and your story, and I think that was really–

Tahira: And that was when your brother was getting married. And there was– 

Shireen: You mean the anecdote that Bob is referring to in the book?

Tahira: Yeah, he’s referring to Bob Mackenzie. And I was away at work, and there was a whole party going on, your friends, my friends, and my house was full of people, partying, eating, celebrating, and dancing. And I came home and I looked at this and there's something else going on on the televisions in my house. Well, that wasn't the order of the day for me. [Shireen laughs] And I said, shut the TV! There's Boston Bruins playing against the Habs, cut it out! And they're saying, what? You know, ladies my age, they said, are you crazy? We are dancing. We are preparing. I said, no, please, sorry, party's over. You can hang out, but I am going to watch my TV.

Shireen: I do really appreciate it the priority that you set in that, because to be honest with you, when I watch soccer, my kids know either the Euros are on right now, the World Cup is on right now, the Women's World Cup is on, or if it's the Champs League women's or men's finals, or even group stages, you know, playoffs – don’t do it. So I'm really glad that you set a precedent for this in our family to prioritize what you needed to do. Particularly as someone, you know, who didn't grow up watching this. And I think it speaks to your love of it. So, I told you that I haven't had an invested life with the Montreal Canadiens, but I'm also somebody who's a sports journalist, who works at the intersections of, you know, social justice, politics, and sports.

So, although we've talked about Carey Price a little bit – for those that don't know, the goalie for the Montreal Canadiens, his mother is actually Indigenous and so is he, and she was the former chief of the old Ulkatcho first nation in British Columbia; Anahim Lake is where he lived and where his mother Linda still lives. So, I have an interest in those intersections of identity and everything else. And I've struggled, mom. I've struggled with being a Habs fan because I don't think that they’re a team that's done the foremost, like the Seattle Kraken that will start in the next season. They're a team that has taken a pledge, you know, I'm associated with Black Girl Hockey Club and I do work on the intersections and anti-oppression. I've been frustrated with the Montreal Canadiens’ lack of getting involved in those…Even the ways that the Toronto Maple Leafs have been more involved in anti-racism work. How do you reconcile, as somebody who clearly has a vested interest in anti-racism?

How do you reconcile being a fan of a club that isn't doing the most? I mean, yes, they've done some work with Indigenous communities and they recognized the trauma, the grief and sadness that's being held by Indigenous communities across this country in terms of genocide and their brutal history by the Canadian state. And I just want to know how you reconcile for so long, and even now?

Tahira: Shireen, it’s difficult. You know, this has gone through my mind several times. Recently there was a short interview of Carey Price when the initial 251, you know, infants were in a mass grave. And I don't think that was the appropriate time to ask him this question. That's my feeling. But I thought that these are people…We love them. You know, they have a fan base that's thousands and thousands and millions of people. And yet when things like this happen, if you don't speak out, you're not a part of the person who's protecting or caring or have, you know, empathy, let's say, with what's happening around. I know that some of the players of the Toronto Maple Leafs did say things. I'm not sure whether it is whatever is going on in Quebec, okay? And you know, the bills that they've passed against many of these things. Or… 

Shireen: Do you mean…Which bills do you mean? Do you mean the xenophobic bills, like Bill 21 that is anti Muslim? Is that what you mean?  

Tahira: The ban, you know, against their symbols. And it makes me laugh because they're so, so Catholic and there's everything, you know – the Saint Joseph’s Oratory, and everything which we've really enjoyed going to, because it's worth going to, yeah? But they haven't said anything. They haven't said anything as a group. They haven't said anything as spokespersons. It's sort of just…I find that I'm a bit disappointed, but again, then sometimes you have to separate the game from their political views or their religious views or whatever. We are free to comment on them. I actually felt very good that Carey Price did say about his mother. He's the man of few words, but he did say that, you know, she was elected as chief of the this particular British Columbia Indigenous people. And I think that was very good. And I think it was fair.

Will it sink in for everybody? It's such a sad situation. Unfortunately, the number of years since 1920s that this has happened or did happen, right? It'll take time to sink in. I know how people react. Sometimes they just freeze. They're not gonna say anything until they're really ready to express themselves. But yeah. They should have said something. They didn't. However, that is unfortunate. But you know, as they are playing and moving forward, it's about our country. It's about Canada. It's about our pride. We are playing the southerners now, and you know, for the time being, I know I shouldn't, but I've sort of put this issue on this side and I'm just praying for Canada to win. 

Shireen: I mean, yeah. You know how I feel about this stuff. I feel like the Canada that I know, and you know me – Canada Day was my favorite holiday growing up. You remember how I was obsessed with it. But I really, I don't celebrate Canada Day in any capacity anymore because I just think that as much as you're able to compartmentalize, I'm not able to do that. Like, I wrote a piece for TSN that, you know, you always read, about how hockey needs to understand Indigenous history and genocide. So, I'm not comfortable doing that. And I'm just wondering that, you know, there's one way to get swept up in the game, and I love that, you know? Like, I love watching, and I've been pulled back into the Montreal Canadiens. It's just that, like you, I’m always disappointed. I wanted more from the organization. I wanted much more, whether it was Black Lives Matter, whether it's Indigenous genocide in this country.

And I know there's a way to reconcile coming from an immigrant experience, but then also understanding the interconnectivity and collaboration with Indigenous communities, that we don't do enough. So for me, I'm always constantly thinking about this, but then also appreciating that they're in the finals. So, to a degree, to answer back or to respond to what you're saying, I mean, for me it's much less…It was very much about US versus Canada, Canada versus US in hockey, because that's one of the best rivalries in sports is Canada versus US. But I'm also beginning to rethink what Canada even means anymore. And I'm looking at it differently, given what we know now.

Like mom, I grew up in Canada, went to school in Canada, and never learned about residential schools. I never learned about it. I mean, I only knew and I found out by accident because you were working in Musquodoboit that once and I happened to go with you. I managed to find a center that talked about it and we lived…I grew up in Mi’kmaq territory. I had no idea about residential schools, like the one in Shubenacadie, I had no idea. So, you know, I feel like in addressing this, there's a way to love hockey. There's a way to still love it, still be critical of it, and still recognize what has happened historically. And I think, you know, we're still trying to figure out how to do it. That being said, I am very happy for you. I'm happy for the Montreal Canadiens fans because there's a way to be a fan and support the players without being affiliated with the organization. I think that's what you've done. It's not like you're a fan of Jeff Molson – you’re a fan of the team, the players. 

Tahira: Yeah. And you know, sometimes maybe their energy and their cognition is directed more towards the game and, you know, things that are happening political or otherwise social, they’re sort of keeping that away because the focus and direction is more towards the game. And I'm just wondering…And these events, these unfortunate tragedies that have happened recently, even I'm not able to reconcile the first 251 that happened. That just broke my heart.

Shireen: 215.

Tahira: 215. Yeah. And then, these recent as I'm reading on social media and on the news and the papers, and I'm saying, I have to take it in. This is Canadian children. This is tragedy, a terrible genocide of children. Removal from their families. I can't even imagine the parents that went and endured this grief and pain and helplessness. And then I thought, okay, I understand this is my favorite team, but then are they focused on it? Will they eventually say something? Will many people, many Canadians say anything at all? Will they? Did they internalize this? Are they going to express their despondency or upset or being…Will they, or will they not?

Shireen: Do you think they did?

Tahira: I don't think so. I didn't hear from…Well, maybe. I haven't heard from many players. No, not the Habs. I really haven't heard a lot from many Canadian teams, anything about this, even, you know, like even Winnipeg Jets, nothing.

Shireen: The Winnipeg Jets made a statement. They did make a statement.

Tahira: They made a statement and I was happy that when the week that this had happened, they did have a minute of silence. They did talk about those 215 children, but now there's hundreds, 700 something more and more. So, yeah. The point is are we separating this because it's a time of anxiety, or is it humanity that we do worry about? And many times, you know, sportsmen are a voice of a normal individual who doesn't get a chance or doesn't speak in public, right?

Shireen: They have a platform, yeah.

Tahira: They have a platform, and they should. So that’s, yeah, a bit disappointing. I would like to ask [laughs] if I ever get a chance to talk to some of them – why not?

Shireen: Well, maybe we can, next time I cover a game, maybe you can come with me and maybe you can ask the hard questions in the presser or in the mixed zone. That would be really cool to find out why, this question from you. I think that, you know, I really appreciate you saying this, because I have been given a place to learn and unlearn what I knew, right? Much of what I know, and maman, about social justice and sports, it came from somewhere. I grew up in a home where discussion was fruitful and encouraged. So I had that place to do it. And I'm just thinking about what you said about people not having the knowledge. So, I think that's maybe one way to move forward is to try to, whether it's on anti-Blackness, on anti-Indigeneity, whether it's inclusion of different marginalized groups, disabled, queer or whatnot, I believe in inclusion completely in sport. And I believe that sport can really connect and create conversation for this. Okay. So, let me just ask you, because we need to wrap up. I'm just mindful of the time, and I love this conversation. It’s probably been one of the best ones I've had. If you were going to pick a prediction, what do you think for the Stanley Cup playoffs? 

Tahira: [laughs] You know what I would like, but that's not exactly what it is. Tampa Bay Lightning have a very good record, right? They’re good players. They've been groomed to play well, but you know, my hope is that the Habs may carry it to game seven.

Shireen: Oh! [laughter] Habs in seven. You heard it here, Burn It All Down listeners! 

Tahira: I want the Stanley Cup! [laughs] 

Shireen: You want the Stanley Cup. I do also thank you because in 1993, when they won and you let me take the day off school, I was very excited about that. [Tahira laughs] School is over for my kids, but I would have offered the same thing. But do you think you'll take a day off work if they win the Cup?

Tahira: Well, you know, the game’s in the evening, and honestly just because my recent illness I think if there was a way to invest any money, I would pay and go and watch the games. [laughs] 

Shireen: Oh my, okay! Well you heard it here. Maman wants to go and see this game. Well, just making sure it's safe and COVID protocols and you know, I'm very happy you're double vaxxed and everything, but we'll see. But I mean, I love that for you. I love that you're so excited about this. Dad arguably has said in some of our family group chats that you were the more excitable and excited about this, but he just enjoys supporting you, watching. I promise I will not call you during any of the games, [Tahira laughs] but I do appreciate your selfies that you send me when we win. I love it. Okay. And I just want to thank you for being on Burn it All Down to talk about it with me. This is 28 years in the making, and I'm so happy. Allez, I guess. Let's go! Olé olé olé. Exactly, let’s do this.

Tahira: Let's do this. You know, I wish the best for both the teams, though in my heart of hearts, I think that the Habs have done a very good job. It's not luck all the time, Shireen, it's your ability and effort and cohesiveness and teamwork that makes teams win, up to this point. And I think Habs have really played well. But you know, I just hope that they bring the Cup to Canada. [laughs]

Shireen: Okay. Well, friends, flamethrowers. You heard it here. Happy to maman on, my favorite, favorite Habs fan in the world. You know, just can't say enough about her commitment to this team. We're really looking forward to the series and hopefully as she says, Habs in seven. Thank you so much for listening to our hot take.

Tahira: Take care, and thank you very much. And I love your program. I like to watch it often. And to all the lovely people that host it, thank you.