Hot Take: The Return of the NWSL with Meg Linehan and Stephanie Yang

In a special Hot Take: Shireen chats with WoSo writing superstars Meg Linehan and Stephanie Yang about the NWSL tournament that begins June 27- with an option for players to opt-out.

Transcript

Shireen: Hello, flamethrowers, do I have a treat for you. Joining me for a very special hot take and some amazing women's soccer news are two of my favorite people in the entire universe: Meg Linehan, staff writer at The Athletic, Stephanie Yang, managing editor of All for XI. But I prefer the bio that I created for both of them: two the most brilliant and badass soccer writers in the entire world. Hello, my friends. 

Meg: Hello.

Steph: Hi Shireen. 

Shireen: So, I'm very excited about having you both on the show. And can you please give us a little bit of an update and let us know what is happening in the NWSL, Meg? 

Meg: So, today, at eight o'clock this morning, NWSL announced that there is going to be a return to play. There's plans in the works for a tournament that will take place in Utah over basically the course of a month. It will kick off June 27th, and the championship will be in July on the 26th. So really it's just, well, an attempt at a season has not been entirely ruled out. They are hoping to get games in. They're going to bring all nine teams to Utah, play in a group stage, essentially like a mini world cup. So, it has major sponsors attached. It has a television deal attached. They also released protocols today for health and safety of the players. The NWSL players association appears to be on board. They released their own statement this morning saying that as part of, you know, ongoing conversations about this tournament, they had secured guaranteed contracts for all of the NWSL players that fall under their umbrella. Guaranteed health insurance through the end of the year. And then in addition, there’s no pickups for the players at all this season. So, in general, it seems like if we're actually going to have some version of women's soccer in the country this summer, this was quite potentially like the best solution that they could have come up with.

Shireen: That's pretty awesome in terms of, like, the contracts for the players also. I also remember reading, or I saw a tweet today that said something about who Lisa Baird was on the phone with, the mothers of the league. So there's something which is I think unprecedented, specifically talking about childcare and those provisions.

Meg: Yeah, that's definitely a new…You know, I think that, and Steph can speak to this as well, but people who have been around the league, I think we do have to start getting used to this sort of new person in charge, right? With Lisa Baird being commissioner. Every single person that I've really talked to throughout this process, as things have been going on behind the scenes, has just really raved about her. And I don't think it happens without her in charge as commissioner of NWSL right now.

Shireen: Steph, what are your thoughts on this? 

Steph: I think…So, you know when you would watch Parks and Recreation, and there would be some kind of problem, and then Leslie Knope would pull a binder out of her desk and it would be like the exact problem and she'd be like, this plan. I had like plans A through Z for this problem written on the binder already. Sometimes I get that feeling whenever Lisa Baird talks about something, because she just…For example, she talked about how she broke down this whole process into workflows, and Meg reported on this a little bit in The Athletic as well, where they subdivided into categories, marketing, transpo, and all that stuff. And probably they also had like a medical workflow, all that sort of stuff. And so she really seems like she runs a tight ship.

Shireen: But, I mean, I'm like, wow. So, I feel like I want to be Donna Meagle in this, but it's fine. Whatever. Parks and Rec, like, I love that reference. So, I'm so interested in the reactions, like, the reactions were very excited for women's soccer fans, obviously, because we've been craving football in our lives. So, what are some of the reactions from the players, staff? Like, have you seen any of them that are hesitant to go back, or have any spoken up about being a little bit reluctant to return to football? And we're still in the middle of the global pandemic.

Steph: I think Meg can probably talk to this a little bit more, but the players who've all spoken publicly have been fairly supportive, and probably that's to do with the deep involvement of the player's association through Yael Averbuch and Brooke Elby. And then Lu Barnes was on a call today with the Reign, and all she really had to say was that, you know, she's a player and she wants to play. And she's kind of confident in the health protocols they have in place. But I know Meg has probably talked to a few more people, and The Athletic definitely had an anonymous survey of players. 

Meg: Yeah. I do think that, you know, based on the conversations I've had, every player that I think, you know, players were tweeting about it today, that they were ready to go, right? I was on the Portland call right after the league conference call today. And Emily Menges was like, I'm excited. I'm ready to go. Like, I'm in. I think that there's some important context to this. Like, first of all, we know that the final rosters aren't even due until June 21st. So players do have some time to decide, right? Like, there's no immediate opt in or opt out deadline for them. So I think that it will give them a chance to kind of wait and see, and maybe have additional conversations. The other part is, yes. So, NWSL players association did a full players in the NWSL – not just the ones under their umbrella, but US women's national team players as well – a survey of them, to figure out how willing are you to play? You know one of the more interesting questions I think was, like, how have you properly socially distanced yourself when it comes to social gatherings over the past couple of months?

And I think that there were some takeaways there, but I think the biggest piece of this is the fact that both from a US women's national team player and an NWSL players association point of view, there's no real repercussions for opting out. So, when I talked to Yael Averbuch this morning, she said, hey, as long as we got security for every single player, that goes for everyone. If they opt out for whatever personal reason, they don't feel safe, their contracts are still guaranteed. Their health insurance is still guaranteed. There's no repercussions. The same goes for the US women's national team. And I think that each one of those groups has its own priorities, right? US women's national team players are aware that in theory we're still gonna have an Olympics next summer and might have different priorities.

But yeah, I mean, I do think in general, we just…I know that there's a lot of people tweeting about, like, who are the names that aren't going to be on this final list? And what US women's national team players aren't going to be involved? You know, I think each player deserves the respect to make that decision for themselves. And that's been one of the reasons why I haven't pushed trying to figure out, you know, who's in or who's out as of right now, because it also might change. 

Shireen: Yeah. Because June 21st, we're still like almost a month away from that. So, well, like less than a month. But also, I’m actually thinking about logistics, because I mean, Diana Matheson is here, you know? [laughs] I'm just wondering, like, the borders aren't open.

Meg: Yeah. I know that the NWSL is working directly with Homeland Security, like, there are government logistics here at play for players who are out of the country to get them in. So, that is apparently like, you know, the fact that the governor of Utah signed off on this tournament is one thing, but there are also some federal implications as well. But in theory, the league is actually working with all relevant agencies to ensure that players who are currently abroad can actually get to America.

Shireen: And then would have to quarantine for two weeks before start of play.

Meg: Well, there's all sorts of protocols in terms of how players will have to quarantine and be tested.

Steph: They do have an international travel protocol section in the documents that they published. And I'm not sure it's a 14 day protocol. There's some room here because symptoms, you can be infected and kind of not test positive for symptoms for five days or something like that. So there's like a seven day window around travel, stuff like that. If you read it all, they lay it out in detail of like, all right, you need to get tested within this amount of time of travel. When you land, you need to get tested again within this amount of time of travel, then you need to get an antibody test. Then you need to get tested again in order to make sure that, you know, things weren't lying dormant or hiding or whatever.

Shireen: Yeah, I have a lot of…You know, the first thing I thought of was logistics, and also, was it because the governor of Utah signed off on it? Like, how did we end up in Utah? Like, no offense to Utah. I'm sure it's lovely. But like, any ideas on how Utah? Why Utah?

Meg: Steph, you wanna take that one? 

Steph: Probably because they had a better state situation than a lot of the other markets. There were ultimately four bids, and I think part of it was probably Utah's ability to handle their pandemic internally. Like, if you go to their state dashboard, I think they do have a lower death count than some other markets. I mean, they have a lower overall population as well though. And, you know, Dell Loy Hanson today talked on the league call a little bit about how Utah has huge testing capacity as well. I mean, we could go deeper into that, about how it's because they're also not engaging their low income communities and communities of color properly. But Utah has the ability to do a lot of mass testing. And NWSL is apparently going to be testing through a nonprofit that is kind of an arm of the University of Utah. And it was a combination of that with Dell Loy Hansen's massive personal fortune. [Shireen laughs]

Meg: That's the real answer, honestly, that is like…Utah is obviously a factor when it comes to health, but a lot of the costs of this tournament in terms of like logistics from hotels and facilities, Dell Loy Hansen.

Steph: What other owner is going to be like, well, I have equity in an embassy suite, so I'll just open up the hotel for the players? And I own some apartment buildings. So we'll put people in there. And I have a private jet so that we can do charter flights for teams to come here without having to do commercial. Like, he ticked a lot of rich people boxes.

Shireen: Wow. I mean, yeah, because those were my next questions. Like, where are the players being housed? How will they be potentially transported? But I mean, rich man money helps apparently for all these logistic issues. Is there anything…Okay, this is sort of like a personal thing. What are you both looking forward to most about the return of the NWSL? Steph?

Steph: I don't know, it's hard to compare or to think about it, because like Lu Barnes said on her call, it's such a different format. When people ask you about like, what are you looking for to? You kind of can't say. I mean, obviously just having games again. I'm really interested to see how this plays out in terms of the broadcast deal and how they deal with CBS all access and Twitch. Didn't get a chance to ask today, because there was a huge scrum of people in the media call, but I'm really interested to see how they go for added value in Twitch. Before all of this, they were talking about doing a lot of extra content, engaging, extra value through players and stuff like that. So I'm wondering if that's still on the menu, like, is it even easier to do because technically they have everybody in one place?

So, you know, whoever's filling Meg's old position with the league now doesn't have to travel around every single team and track someone down after a game for content? Or is it worse now? Because like you can't just walk up to anybody anymore. You've got to essentially be embedded with a team or else you're going to break their isolation protocol. I don't know. I'm interested to see how that plays out because I'm probably a little bit more invested in seeing how this Twitch partnership works out.

Meg: Yeah, I mean, obviously I'd like to see games.I’ve been writing about…I’m a little concerned about the quality of the product, simply because it is a condensed schedule and a lot of the games are going to be on turf. The players are not necessarily getting great preseason. Also, teams are kind of all over the map in terms of who's been practicing. Like, I think Sky Blue is only just getting back to, you know, certain practices, and Reign as well. You know, everybody's kind of all over the place in terms of how much prep they've gotten. I personally think I am actually really excited to have nine NWLS teams trapped together for a month. [Shireen laughs] Just from a pure…And this is maybe me coming from a content point of view. I think it's going to be chaos. Just in terms of like, I mean, when I was talking actually to Yael Averbuch this morning, she was kind of joking, like, you know, it's going to be like an Olympic village, and everybody's going to have this sense of like, we're all in this together.

But at the same time, I mean, going back to Dell Loy Hansen, he spoke about on the call, like, I'm opening up my checkbook essentially for whatever the players need, I'm going to get it for them. And he was talking about snacks and also ping pong tables. But I think that there's a lot of potential here for hopefully shenanigans that are in a controlled and not threatening to any player’s individual health or safety. I don't think that's going to be a problem. But like, players have already been very imaginative in how they have approached this break to begin with on social media and other ways. So, I do think trapping nine teams together in generally the same area is kind of a recipe for some real insanity.

Shireen: Or maybe an amazing reality television show.

Meg: I mean honestly, yeah.  

Steph: The Real World: NWSL.

Meg: That's straight up what's about to happen. And I did say, you know, I joked about this on Twitter earlier, but would the ping pong table…Someone immediately was like, well, beer pong. And then I was like, well, this is the Budweiser NWSL content we actually deserve, [Shireen laughs] but I was speaking to someone who is involved in the league in a much higher level today, and we were talking about how after the quarterfinal round, when four teams get knocked out, like then, okay, you get a second tournament online only of beer pong from those four teams. [Shireen laughs] I personally would pay extra money for that. So, I just want to throw that out there into the world and watch it come to life. Like, if I worked for the league still, that would be my number one goal, honestly, beyond the soccer, would be NWSL beer pong tournament. 

Shireen: I always have my money on Tobin Heath, always, always and forever. Okay. So here's a question from a media perspective: are either of you going, and what will that even look like? Like, how will you have access? What, will scrums look like? What will pressers look like? What does any of this look like? Are they Zoom calls, like post-match pressers? What does this look like for media? 

Meg: No idea. [laughs]

Steph: Not sure we know yet. We were all joking around in our Slack about, oh, it's just going to be a Zoom call. And they're going to have to develop a protocol for that, because so far the Zoom calls I've been on with clubs have just been kind of like, all right, just speak up if you want to ask a question. I'm like, but there's a raise hand function, even. 

Meg: Right. Yeah, I agree on that. The Zoom calls, I'm always just like, I start talking and then someone else starts talking and then I'm like, oh, I shouldn't talk now, I guess. Cool. So, I spoke to a couple of people in NWSL, there's no plan yet for media. Obviously the two of us wouldn't be on charter flights. [laughter] So there's that.

Steph: Dell Loy, grandpa Dell Loy, please. [laughter] 

Shireen: I wish I had rich man money to give you both, but I don’t, and I don't actually have a charter plane. I wish I did. I know this is shocking to you both, but I don’t.

Meg: Personally, my wife would probably prefer I don't go to Utah for a month in the middle of a pandemic, just like personally. I definitely had a coworker ask me that today. And I was like, well, I do like being married, so. [Shireen laughs]

Steph: Yeah, I'm not being paid like travel during a pandemic money. So I'm not sure. If I had access to the same level of testing and there was some kind of sequestered media spot and they were like, we've also developed a protocol for media, and I was getting travel money, like, charter jet options, possibly I would consider it, but no, there's way too much.

Shireen: Yeah. And I mean, as always, much love and solidarity and respect to both. Like, I wasn't joking when I said I think you're two of the most talented and dedicated women's soccer writers in the world. And I'm just, you know, as always, hoping and praying for your safety and your health, and continuing the work you do in a very doable way so it's not chaotic and Meg doesn't have to wake up at like farmer hours. Which was useful today, though. I have to say, it's good. So, thanks to Marjorie for that. But just, you know, we'll see what happens, and if you can keep us updated, and you're welcome on the show anytime. Burn It All Down absolutely adores you both. And thank you so much. I know it's been an absolutely chaotic day for both of you, so thank you so much for taking the time out to do this. 

Meg: Thanks for having us. It's so rare that Steph and I get to do podcasts together. 

Shireen: Well, obviously I would prefer if it's the three of us in a cafe in Europe somewhere, but that's not possible at the moment. [laughs]

Steph: You’re the second person today who's reminded me of like being in Europe last year and how much I miss French butter. 

Shireen: Oh, man, I miss all of it. I remember like all of us were wearing our French kits at the same time at dinner.

Meg: I wish we could all just be in matching kits at a pub watching soccer. 

Shireen: That would be amazing. That would be so good. I feel like that will happen again one day, and then Ann Odong can join us also, because that would just be wonderful. Okay. So again, thank you so much to both. And we look forward to updates on this.