Interview: Anastasia Bucsis, Speedskater, Olympian and CBC Sports Analyst

Shireen Ahmed interviews Anastasia Bucsis, 2-time speedskating Olympian for Team Canada and CBC Sports Analyst and host of Player's Own Voice Podcast. They discuss Anastasia's transition from professional athlete to journalist and the challenges of the 2020/21 Olympic games. Anastasia also shares her experience competing as the only out North American athlete at the 2014 Sochi Olympics and publicly opposing Russia's anti-LGBTQ laws. They talk about the progress made and the progress needed to eradicate homophobia from sport and better support for athletes' mental health.

**TW: This episode discusses depression and suicide.**

This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Shireen: Hi, flamethrowers. Shireen here. I would like to offer a content and trigger warning for the conversation you are about to hear between me and Canadian speed skater-cum-sports broadcaster Anastasia Bucsis. In this episode, we discuss mental health struggles and suicide.

Hello, Shireen here. Well, I am very excited. I'm always excited, but I am especially excited today to have one of the coolest people I know, Anastasia Bucsis, with us. Hello!

Anastasia: Hello. You say you're excited. I am thrilled to be here! I'm starstruck. [laughs] So thank you.

Shireen: We’re so happy to have you on Burn It All Down. Now, for those of you that unfortunately don't know Anastasia, here's your chance. Anastasia was born and raised in Calgary, Alberta. She started speed skating at the age of four and within her 24 year speed skating career she has represented Canada twice at the Olympic games, six world championships, and 46 world cup starts. She was the only athlete from North America to come up publicly in opposition to Russia's anti LGBTQ laws before the Sochi 2014 Olympics. She now lives in Toronto and works for CBC Sports where she hosts Player's Own Voice, the podcast. And she's a passionate advocate for mental health issues, eradicating homophobia in sport, and telling the stories of Canada's high performance athletes. She is also a LEGO connoisseur. 

Anastasia: I am. Yeah. Thank you for telling my secrets, but yeah, it's not like…I love LEGO, but it’s really been nanoblocks during this pandemic, I've just gotten into them. I've leaned into it, the pandemic living. [laughs]

Shireen: I need to explore that. I'm familiar with LEGO. I have children, like, I’ve stepped on the shrapnel in my whole life and put it away, ruined many vacuum cleaners for me. But like, I think it's something…Like, I'm a person who actually has anxiety, so working with my hands is really good for me. Like Play-Doh.

Anastasia: Okay. Then, you know what? You tell me what your address is, I will send you some nanoblocks. [Shireen laughs] They originally from Japan, so I'm hoping to get some rare ones when I'm there in July.

Shireen: That this is a perfect segue to talk about the Olympics. [Anastasia laughs] So you will be…You were part of the CBC broadcast team covering the…Is it actually called 2021? Are we still saying 2020 Olympics? 

Anastasia: We're still saying 2020.

Shireen: [laughs] That's so funny to me.

Anastasia: I know.

Shireen: It's okay. I'm always late. So it works out actually in my favor. This is not your first Olympics as a broadcaster though?

Anastasia: No. I mean, to be really honest, I was hoping to compete in my third Olympics for 2018. My body had other plans, and I retired right before Pyeongchang. I found myself at the right time, right place, reached out to the right person. And I'm just forever grateful. I mean, I have a communications degree from the University of Calgary – it took me nine years to get my undergrad because I was skating. Should have been a doctor with that kind of time commitment with school. [laughs] 

Shireen: Yeah. But you're also going to the Olympics and the world championships. I think you're good.

Anastasia: Yeah. I was skating around in a circle a lot, [Shireen laughs] but you know I have my degree in sports media from the University of Calgary, and so again – right time, right place, was so lucky. CBC picked me up right before Pyeongchang, dream job. I was in a little bit of a different role, just kind of looking after some of our athlete relationships and athlete management profiles. So, getting athletes on TV, on broadcast, on digital, and I've really transitioned into a host role now. So I will be hosting a show in Japan, and it's exciting. I mean, it's been such a weird year, but it's been a really significant year for me personally and professionally, and yeah. I mean, it's just crazy to think that we're only a handful of days out to the Olympics now. 

Shireen: Yeah. I mean, friend of the show Perdita Felicien is also on that team, and Andrew Chang is also on that team and like the talent is formidable. Let's dive into this. Do you actually think you'll be going?

Anastasia: I do. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. There’s…Yeah. [Shireen laughs] It's a big topic, right? And of course there's, there's an asterisk or there's a part of morality that of course lives in my brain when you're talking about hosting an Olympics during a pandemic. But I do think that the Olympics will go and I have faith that the organizing committees, our Canadian delegation, the COC…I look to the COC as leaders, and of course they're setting a significant tone for the Canadian delegation to go only if it's safe, and they are saying it is very safe.

So I do have a lot of faith in that leadership, but you know, I don't live in a vacuum. I read the same headlines that you do. I see the same news. I've been working on the Olympics every single day for the last four years of my life, and the last 14 months have been in a pandemic. So it's hard to see it for just, you know another sporting event. It'll be really unique, and you also have to listen to the Japanese people. I understand that they're calling for it to be canceled, and if it becomes canceled I would understand. 

Shireen: Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things we talk a lot about on the show as well, about how nurses in Japan actually came out because they were asked by the Japanese Olympic Committee to volunteer – and I'm like, to volunteer? To not even be paid to assist? Because you've been to the Olympics, the amount of medical staff and entourage that was required, whether it's, you know, like RMTs, nurses, physios, occupational therapists, all the things. It requires not a village, it requires a whole country, literally. 

Anastasia: Yeah.

Shireen: And then we struggle because on the one hand, I feel like I do not…I’m not a fan of the politics and the processes of the IOC, but I love the way that sport, particularly women's sport, is amplified. Like, you're a speed skater. When else would you get attention the way that you deserve? Undoubtedly, right? Like, when did you get attention other than the Olympics?

Anastasia: Yeah. I mean, CBC gave us some love and so I'll give them love, always. They follow the the narrative every single day, not just every two years or four years. But you’re right. And you know, if I put my athlete hat back on, which I've only been retired a few years, so it goes on pretty quickly. If I got the opportunity to compete, I would always compete. That's always going to be a part of my heart, even if it's growing smaller, because I'm becoming a normal person and I don't work out and I'm not athletic anymore. [laughs]

Shireen: I don't believe you, but okay. [laughs]

Anastasia: Oh, no. Like, I did one sit up the other day and my partner was like, good job! Like, I need a cheerleader, man. I don't have much motivation. 

Shireen: Okay. Well then maybe I will work out with you. [laughter] Okay. So, you being the athlete and, you know, transitioning into a sports broadcaster and media role, the Olympics won't have fans.

Anastasia: It'll be different. Yeah. It'll be different.

Shireen: Your experience has been with fans as an athlete, and they must have…That love that you've seen when you see this Canadian flags…And I'm a person that's like, this country is completely founded on genocide, and we're having this incredible conversation in Canada at the moment about Indigenous relations and our lack of accountability to those communities. But at the same time, I'm that person who when the Canada anthem gets played at the Olympics I'm sobbing. Like, I need to decolonize my head. But as you, an athlete, when you see those flags, when you see those people with your signs, that must've meant so much to you as an athlete.

Anastasia: It did. I mean, and I was a lucky kid, right? Like, I got to compete in Vancouver.

Shireen: [gasps] You did. I just got goosebumps when you said that. [laughs]

Anastasia: And I was kind of a shithead, right? I was 20 years old. I was like, yeah, Clara Hughes is my teammate. She's carrying the flag. I'm 20, I'm competing at a home Olympics. Like, I didn't know how special that was! And so now with, you know, 11 years in our rear view mirror, I'm like, god, that, that really was a moment that I think is and was and will continue to be significant for Canadian identity and history because we came together in a way that was so visceral. And it was. It was like being in Disneyland. I mean, you'd walk down Robson street and there'd be a hundred thousand Canadians wearing Crosby on their back, waving flags, just being so so so supportive that, yeah.

I mean, my heart aches a little bit knowing that that will be the case for, you know, not just Canadians, but for the Japanese athletes, right? It's such a celebration that transcends sports, the Olympics, and it is sad that it won't look the same. But I think at the end of the day, if you're going there as an athlete, you're going there to do a job, you're going there to compete. As much as the crowd can really ramp you up, I think that you're so laser-focused that when that gun goes – or, you know, when the competition starts, when the whistle blows, whatever you're playing or whatever you're competing in – everything kind of just goes black.

I think it'll really feel odd when we watched the a hundred meter, the women's and men's finals. I think that's where we'll go, “Huh. This is really different,” because we have gotten a little bit used to watching sports without fans, right? It's not my favorite. I can't wait til we can see people in the crowd, even watching the Leafs and Habs, right. Those 2,500 people in Montreal and the 500 [laughs] frontline workers in Toronto. I was like, it's so nice to hear actual voices! But if this is what we need to do to make everyone safe, I don't think anyone is going to lose sleep over it. At least not the athletes. 

Shireen: Yeah. That's a really interesting thing, watching the a hundred meters, also watching the races without fans, because it truly is like the fastest person in the world kind of thing. I mean, let's talk a little bit about your journey from athlete to…You talked about it a little bit. Was it difficult to put on your analytic and your commentary hat? Was that a difficult transition for you?

Anastasia: It wasn't. I mean, listen – whenever anything good ends, it's sad. And so, yeah, I struggled through my transition in retirement, just because for a long time I felt like, you know, did I quit on myself? Or did I accomplish everything that I thought I could? And I don't think that I reached my potential, and that will always in some ways haunt me, because I'm a competitor, I'm an A-type personality, as much as I can be kind of Phoebe Buffay at times. When the gun goes, I was a big game skater. I loved competition. I loved racing since I was four years old. So, to say goodbye to it was difficult, but I also was always someone that was more than just what I did on the ice. You know, you learn that through a series of events when you're growing older, and I recognize now that my results don't completely define me.

I always was really passionate about the media. I think some athletes retire and then they think, like, oh, I just want to be on TV, it’s easy. It's not easy to be a broadcaster! I mean, the people that make it look easy to make it look easy because they practice every single day, just like in sports, just like in anything. So, I had a lot of passion for the industry and in that respect it was easy, but going to Pyeongchang, when I was hoping to compete, you know, I cried in the opening ceremony and then I cried so hard after the closing ceremony. I got sick. So I was like, yeah, there were probably some repressed emotions there. 

Now that I've gotten, again, a little bit further out of retirement, I'm much more comfortable and really feeling like I'm finding my voice as a broadcaster. But yeah, I mean, I love speed skating. It was the love of my life. And so when you say goodbye it’s sad, but I also feel like it's continued to be such a significant part of my professional life that I'm still part of the community. It feels really good.

Shireen: Yeah. It's really lovely for you to actually speak so about the vulnerability there, about the emotion and grieving, that piece that was so huge for you. Because like, you know, it's not very often athletes get to leave on their own terms, right?

Anastasia: Never.

Shireen: Rarely do people retire in the way that we want them to, or they want to rather. And I think it's really, really great of you to share that. Is there advice that you might offer to other people that are still in their journeys or in their professional or semi-professional career, or even aspiring, about how to shift that? Because you seem so natural in this, and the sports media landscape in Canada is not big. So we all know each other, like, all of us, we all know each other. But is there a word of offering you could give people about how to do that?

Anastasia: Oh gosh, well, I mean, I think that I went through a few dark years prior to my transition. I really struggled with anxiety and depression, you know, had thoughts of suicide almost every single day for a good six, seven months right before Sochi, actually. So, I will say that going through that, struggling to accept myself, struggling to accept my identity – of course I was in the closet for a long time. I think that experience, as difficult as it was and life-changing as it was, it did equip me with some tools that I now have kind of in my fake imaginary toolbox when I recognize that I am going through kind of a rough spot. And you know, I've been able to recognize what's a bad day, what's a bad week, versus what’s slipping into depression.

And I think a lot of people right now, unfortunately, are having some mental health struggles because we're living in a pandemic and life is hard and we feel incredibly isolated. When I was transitioning, I was proactive. I connected with a psychologist, I connected with a psychiatrist, just because, you know, you think you're over things and then they come back, you know? You get like 15 minutes to yourself and you're like, why is my brain thinking about this? And again, some of those things happened to me this year, too. I go, wow. You know, that happened eight years ago. I really thought that I was over that, but I obviously am not, and I've proactively reached out now to teammates that I've needed to have certain conversations with. But yeah, just not being afraid to ask for help.

And I know that's so simple and we hear it all the time now, but it's one thing to talk about it and it's another thing to actually do it. Just trusting that making a phone call to connect with someone, either through talk therapy or even just giving yourself some self-love, going for a massage, meditating, all of these little things that we overlook, they really can just be such a game changer. I don't think I'll live my life without a therapist now, and I am on medication for a little bit of depression, and it really has helped. If I can help erode that stigma regarding mental health and struggling, then I will always tell that story. So, just don't be afraid to ask for help. Honestly, especially this year, I don't know how many people, how many friends, co-workers, colleagues I've talked to who are in a very similar boat, and there is something really comforting when you recognize that you're not alone. 

Shireen: Thank you so much for sharing that. I think that the way that this year, this pandemic, and all of us haven't had the opportunity to commune in person and through screens, but trying to extract joy wherever you can. I've been really lucky, same with me. Like, I'm not somebody who actually had benefits before I started grad school, so that I had my benefits I'm like, let me get my therapist! [laughter] because it's also very expensive and not something that other people have access to. And I know in racialized communities and in different communities and in queer communities they have support groups for each other.

Anastasia: Yeah. 

Shireen: One of the things I was going to ask you too is that the conversation around mental health and athletes, in particular on Naomi Osaka and what's happening there, it just occurred to me when you were talking about it, like, how do you, as somebody who is very open and very transparent and you share your vulnerability, do you think that this conversation should be ongoing or do you think we've reached that reckoning of mental health with athletes conversation?

Anastasia: I think Naomi Osaka is going to bring about a reckoning. I think she is so eloquent. She's young, she's marketable. She's such a boss. Like, I mean, I hate to say it, but I think it needed someone like Naomi Osaka to do what she has just done for us to go, wow, wow, wow, okay. This is going to just change from a conversation to actual action. And again, I think she's one of the most marketable athletes on the face of the earth. And so that always helps when you have big companies behind an athlete like that go, “We hear you. We see you. We support you.”

Last year I think that “shut up and dribble” died, but I think this year we're going to go, oh, but they actually don't need to say anything either, right? I think it will just bring about a lot of actions and a lot of tangible action with her saying, “I don't want to talk.” And as an athlete, as you said, I mean, I basically only got love once every four years for the Olympics. CBC was always great. But as someone who has been under the white hot spotlight of the media, you know, I always kind of say to athletes, we're here to tell your story, but don't ever feel like you need to do media if it's going to give you anxiety.

Shireen: But you know that because you have that experience as an athlete. Do you feel like sports media…Because one of the things I rant about all the time is, like, we've forgotten that harm reduction is a part of journalism. We've forgotten that being trauma-informed in the way we do our jobs and tell her stories, it can happen. There can be a weaving of this. Like, you know, I will speak a bit of hockey now, I'll speak to our listeners that weren't paying attention to the Habs and Leafs – listen, Anastasia and I are both in Toronto, so we paid attention to the series. When Tavares got hit in the head by Perry, one of the questions to Perry in the post-game presser was like, "How do you feel?” Like, he was clearly stunned and traumatized. He had just knocked out the captain. And they were former teammates on Team Canada!

Anastasia: Yeah, they’re friends.

Shireen: They're friends! And even like with Carey Price after the presser, people are asking him how he feels about, “How do you feel about finding 215 dead bodies of children outside of a former residential school?” Like, what the fuck kind of question is that? And my point is, do you feel like we're getting better? Well, you're in sports media and I'm in sports media, so clearly we're getting better. [laughter] But do you feel like we're getting there at all?

Anastasia: I think that we are in a transition. I think everyone is in a transition period. COVID-19 has brought about new conversations that for so long have never been had. So I do think we are becoming more self-reflective and having larger conversations about the quality of questions, when to ask them. Do I think that we're there? No, we won't be there overnight, but I have to believe that something good will come out of this. And I think that sport has changed so radically within the past year and a half that the media, we'll have to keep up. So I think that good will come of it. I don't think we're quite there yet.

And it is a delicate balancing act, right? I know I'm a journalist now, but I dedicated my life for 24 years to skate around in a circle. So, I’m really appreciative of that perspective and just trying to marry it to the questions I ask and how I conduct my own business and my own relationships. I'm really happy with where that's at. Larger trends with professional sport, I think it'll take a little bit longer, but I do think that is shifting.

Shireen: I love how you say "skate around in a circle" because I literally skate around in a circle, so I think it's really funny that that's what you call it. [Anastasia laughs] Because that's a little more complicated. Flipping to this, because this will air in pride month – and happy pride!

Anastasia: Thanks.

Shireen: And I love how you suggested it might be do it yourself, this month for pride celebrations–

Anastasia: Yeah! DIY pride. Yeah. 

Shireen: DIY pride. And you know, we're still in lockdown. We're recording on on the 3rd of June, and we're still in lockdown here until the middle of the month. But you were one of the first athletes to come out, so this whole “shut up and dribble” thing, that's not what you did. You kept your sport political, because inherently it was for you, right? Because you can't separate your identity. So, that must've been super complicated. Did you feel like you got the support at time that you needed?

Anastasia: No. In an easy answer, no. When I came out it was a lot of like, hey, we support you, but no offence, like, why do you have to talk about this? [laughter] And you know what, it was a learning moment for absolutely everyone. And I have thought back to 2014, and I was very vocal prior to the Olympics, and when I went to the Olympics and when I was in the village I was on a media blackout because I just thought to myself, you know what, I've said my story, I've told my story. I've tried to be vulnerable and give everything that I had to give to this story, and I had to believe that the kid that needed to hear my story was going to hear it. And then I got to the Olympics and I thought, okay, this is actually a part of my prep. I need to just be focusing and whatnot and not answer questions.

And I've thought about that. It’s weighed heavily on me, especially this year. Did I do enough? The athletic community at that time was kind of like, great, but you're here to be an athlete. You know, "Why do you have to talk about this?” And then the LGBTQ community on the other hand was I think kind of let down in some instances that I didn't do more when I was actually on the field of play. So, it was tough. A little bit of tension existed in myself and in that time. I was very proud that I showed up fully authentically myself. I mean, I stood on that line and I had a really tumultuous lead up to those Olympics. As I mentioned, I was really struggling with my mental health, my weight ballooned, I didn't qualify for world cups that previous fall.

So it was like I was going into the Olympics as my first international race in a year. It was like the first day of high school times 10 billion. So, it was tough. And I have thought back, did I do enough? And I can't change the past, so I don't want to lose sleep over it, but I do definitely see that I need to keep telling my story, even though I get sick of my own voice, but if it's going to help a kid then I will always do it, because I know how alone I felt, and I know how alone I felt in sport because no one else was out. I remember going to basically my second mom, Cara Button, she worked for the Canadian Sport Institute in Calgary, and I said, Cara, I'm so alone. I'm so anxious. I feel like I'm the only gay person to ever walk the face of the earth.

Shireen: Which is not true! [laughs]

Anastasia: Which is not true, right? But when you're in the closet, it's such an all encompassing struggle. And I had no gay friends. I just felt so alone. I have a million straight friends, but I just was so, so desperate and, you know, finding a connection with someone who could relate to what I was going through. And Cara said, Anastasia, we all love you, but I don't know any other athlete that's gay – or certainly not out. And so it took a minute, right? I think the COC has done great work in this area, right? They have one team. They're now coming out with resources for grassroots sport with a lens in LGBTQ issues. So, they're doing great work. But seven years ago, as much as that isn't that long ago, yeah, there wasn't too much support. A lot of people kind of were going, yeah, we support you, we love you, kid, but just go skate. And so it's nice to see that that shifted and I am very proud of how the COC and the Canadian Olympic committee has picked up a leadership role in that space.

Shireen: Because you have actually, you created conversations and ripples of that. And from that, like, I remember doing a profile of Erin McLeod, and Erin ended up writing guidelines for going into Rio and going into Olympics after that, and pre world cup stuff, which was after you had done what you had done. I think that you may not see the impact, Anastasia, and for people like me that are constantly learning and, you know, know that history of what you've done, I think it's funny – I'm not part of that community, I'm not part of a queer community, but to have that feeling of…There was criticism that I didn't do enough, like, I can tell you, you changed the course of the conversation completely.

Anastasia: Thank you.

Shireen: From my perspective. And 2014, which is just seven years ago, it's really not that long time ago! For there still to be homophobic, transphobic policies even around a global event, do you feel like that's shifting now with the Olympics? Do you feel like we're moving away from that? Do you think the conversations are really honest? 

Anastasia: Huh. It's a tough one to answer. I think in some respects, absolutely. I think it's shifting in the right way. I think that sports are inherently misogynistic, and until we figure out that issue, we are going to keep conversation going for a long, long time. I know Olympic sports aren't completely related, they’re a distant cousin to perhaps the big four in North America, but you know, you just have to look to how we have stalled there to kind of see a larger picture of the broader sport landscape. So, there's so much work to be done. I very much hope that the big four kind of figure it out, and I can't wait until the first out hockey player comes out. I will welcome him with open arms, a COVID-free hug. [Shireen laughs] But certainly we're stunted there. And when you do the math you're just like, there's absolutely no way. There's just absolutely no way that there aren't gay boys in the NHL and the NBA and then MLS and the NFL and everything, right? That's history. There’s gays everywhere.

Shireen: That’s what Megan Rapinoe said!

Anastasia: I know, I know let's quote her. Also, I love that you named dropped Erin McLeod. She was just the greatest.

Shireen: You know I’m holding myself back from name dropping other people.

Anastasia: Oh, I know. But keep it coming. I love it. No, they're all beauties.

Shireen: [laughs] For those that don't know, Anastasia is also a big supporter of the Canadian women's national team, soccer team, and we're both big fans of that.

Anastasia: Your Twitter and your love for Bend It Like Beckham, like, to prep for this interview I was like, should I just watch that movie? [laughter]

Shireen: Wait a minute. You haven't seen it?

Anastasia: No, no, no. I own the DVD, but it's in Calgary at my parents' house.

Shireen: Okay. No, but the fact that you said you own the DVD, it gives you huge points. Because I appreciate you.

Anastasia: It's a fantastic movie. I completely agree. [Shireen laughs] But yeah, for the Olympics, I think the conversation is shifting. I think that the significant problem is when you host the Olympics in a country that perhaps doesn't have the same rules and regulations and laws around protecting LGBTQ folk. And that's an issue. I think that hopefully, you know, if I believe in the altruism of the Olympic games, I hope that that can help shift some of those laws.

Shireen: Do you think they should just not be afforded the games then?

Anastasia: Yeah, I mean, it's tough because you want countries to be able to show off their culture, and that's a part of why we love the Olympics. It's so much more than just sport. It's bringing the world together. But certainly it's difficult when you see large events, not just the Olympics, I mean, world cups, any large sporting event be hosted in a country that has some human rights violations. I hope that that can progress in a way that a lot of other things have progressed. And I think the IOC will need to figure that out pretty quick. 

Shireen: Yeah, we talk about that often on the show, how sports is a vehicle and a platform for which to engage in these discussions. I wouldn't be doing the work I do if I didn't feel strongly about it, because I believe in sport and I think that that is a way to connect. I don't believe in the idea of unifying people, but I believe that there's a connector there, right? Like, I mean, wow. Everything that you said, I was just like, yeah. Snap, snaps, snaps. So, I just wanted to ask you, do you have a favorite Canadian athlete?

Anastasia: Favorite Canadian athlete…Oh my gosh. I mean, I can't just say one. I have been so lucky in my career. 2010, 2014, that Olympic team, honest to god – and this is specific to winter Olympians, like, it is a family. I'm not joking. When I get married, half the Olympic team is coming to my wedding. [laughter] So, we are very close. I was really lucky, again, Clara Hughes, really significant mentor and friend and teammate in my life. Cindy Klassen, Catriona Le May Doan, Christine Nesbitt, Kristina Groves, Shannon Rempel – the list goes on and on and on and on and on. So, I'm really lucky with the badass women that I got to skate around in a circle with, because they really transcended the sport and they were quite lovely with just life lessons. They were so, so generous and I love them for it. Honorable mention: Joannie Rochette. She is the real, real, real deal. I think I've had more fun with her than most people in my life. And yeah, I mean, I got to give it's a Diana Matheson. She's all right too. [Shireen laughs] She’s okay.

Shireen: Yeah. Only provided us with, you know, the bronze medal. 

Anastasia: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shireen: We desperately needed that.

Anastasia: No big deal. No big deal. [laughs]

Shireen: No big deal. Yeah. Packs a punch. One of the smartest athletes I've ever met in my life.

Anastasia: Oh, she's way smarter than I am. 

Shireen: I didn't say that! I just said that in the realm–

Anastasia: I'm saying that in the sense that, like, she like just sets out with a goal and she'll make it happen. So, we're lucky to have her in the sporting landscape, and she's a phenomenal Canadian.

Shireen: Yeah, she was on the panel, for those of you that don't know, she was actually part of the first all women TSN broadcast during the world cup in France. And what was phenomenal about that, it was a Kate Beirness–

Anastasia: Clare Rustad, Kaylyn Kyle.

Shireen: Kaylyn Kyle and then Diana Matheson. And they didn't shy away from anything. The conversation was astute. It was apt. The technical analysis was amazing. My criticism of that particular…It was like, I would love to see racialized women on the panel also, but I loved listening, and she's whip smart. But anyways, thank you for answering the questions that I know the answer to anyway! [Anastasia laughs] So, one question that I do like to ask people, I always like to insert conversations about food. And do you have right now, like, is there something you're really looking forward to eating in Japan? 

Anastasia: Well, that's the thing, right? That's a part of the plan. Like I think I'm going to be… [Shireen laughs] No, that was a part of my plan, if we weren't in a pandemic, was to eat my way throughout Japan. I love ramen. I love sushi. But with the plan to keep us all safe, I think I'm just going hotel to the studio, and I have my own private driver. I ain't seeing Tokyo. I do get Uber Eats. I think that we get that option, so I can get things delivered. So I think I'll probably be living on a steady diet of raw fish and ramen. And I probably will have the occasional Sapporo. I enjoy beer too. I'm on a diet, I don't know why we've done this. We're on The Whole 30 right now, which is like, I don't know if you've heard of it. No dairy, no grains, no sugar, no alcohol, no preservatives. It's for 30 days.

Shireen: What do you eat? 

Anastasia: I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out. [Shireen laughs] I feel great. Like, honestly, my energy levels I'm like, ah, maybe I'll just take up boxing and try to go to 2024. I have so much energy. But I'm very, very excited to get back to eating normal things and that'll be a celebration in Tokyo. I'll just be Uber-eating everything. I think sushi.

Shireen: I love sushi. You named all the things you're not eating right now and I don't drink, but you literally named off my diet, all the things you're not eating. [Anastasia laughs] And you know what I do, I kind of tapered off with water and, like, the more or drink, that's okay. I'll just balance it out with just drinking tons of water. So, that's what my plan is, my strategy. But I wanted to thank you, you've been absolutely lovely to speak with, and I know this and that's why I was like, I need to get Anastasia on the show. It’s a wonderful month. And I wish you all the safety–

Anastasia: Thank you. 

Shireen: All the joys in Tokyo. I want you to have shaved ice with syrup on it. I know it might not be possible because it's street food, but that's a part of like straight food in Japan that you need to have. It's like, I don't know…We have it in Pakistan, it's called gola ganda, but like every place has it. It's like shaved ice with syrup on it. You have to have plum or cherry or…I feel like you need to eat this while you're there.

Anastasia: Okay. I will. I'll figure out what. Yeah. 

Shireen: A snow cone!

Anastasia: Snow cone! Yeah. [laughs]

Shireen: I couldn't remember the name of it. I'm thinking in Urdu. Tressa’s texting me going, “It’s called a snow cone!” Snow cone. [laughter]

Anastasia: I haven’t had a snow cone since I was like eight years old at the Calgary stampede, but I will one. If I can get one in Tokyo, I promise you this. I'll take a photo and I'll tweet it out.

Shireen: Oh, please!

Anastasia: I’ll tag Burn It All Down. [laughs]

Shireen: Yeah, that would be amazing. And please, thank you so much from us, I'm really excited and honored that you're here talking with us and also sharing these incredibly deep and personal important stories. Thank you so much. 

Anastasia: Thank you. I honestly…You texted me, and I was like, is this a joke? I was like, April Fools is past, Shireen! Like, don't be playing with my heart strings like this. [Shireen laughs] So, it's my honor.

Shireen: You’re the best.

Anastasia: No, you’re the best. 

Shireen: And when you come back, I would love to…We could get a snow cone here, hopefully by then.

Anastasia: Oh, absolutely! 

Shireen: But I would love to meet up and go for a walk.

Anastasia: We'll do a podcast over a snow cone. Promise. [laughter]

Shireen: Thank you so much for being on the show.

Anastasia: Thank you. Cheers.