Interview: Angel Flores, Powerlifter and Queer Eye Star on Sport as a Human Right

In this episode Jessica Luther interviews Angel Flores, powerlifter and recent star on Netflix's Queer Eye. They talk about about Angel's life-long connection to sport, how she got into powerlifting, as well as competing in the new MX division in powerlifting and her conflicted feelings about it. They also discuss her experience on Queer Eye, what she wants to say to trans youth in this moment and why sport is a human right that all people should have equal access to.

This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Jessica: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. Jessica here. I couldn't be more excited to welcome Angel Flores to the show. If you, like me, are a fan of Queer Eye on Netflix, then you probably don't need me to introduce her. But for those of you who haven't seen the latest season of Queer Eye – which takes place here in Austin, Texas, where listeners know I live – episode two focuses on Angel, a trans powerlifter. Welcome, Angel, to Burn It All Down!

Angel: Hi, it's so amazing to get to talk to you today. 

Jessica: I’m…I wish you guys could see how big my smile is. [Angel laughs] So, we’re obviously a sports podcast, so I wanted to start with your relationship to sports. And if I'm remembering correctly from the episode, you've had a long…Like, sports has been part of your life your whole life, correct?

Angel: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, it was almost from birth that my dad kind of decided, like, you know what? This kid is going to play everything that I can get them to play. [laughs] So, I started sports, oh, four years old?

Jessica: Wow.

Angel: Yeah. I was raised through Catholic school my entire life. So, the Catholic youth sports organization or CYO or whatever it's called down there, they put on a lot of small time stuff for especially younger kids. And my dad was on top of it, putting me in everything that he could. So, I played everything ranging from T-ball to soccer to basketball to baseball, like, everything – up until I was about then. Past that, I found that I kind of needed to find a niche, right? I definitely needed to find my sport. So, going into high school, I hit a growth spurt. I grew up a little bit. I realized, oh, I could probably do well in football. [laughs] 

Jessica: And you're in Texas. 

Angel: Yeah, exactly. Here in Texas, even with a private Catholic school like Antonian, the high school I went to, it was definitely a huge deal for everybody to get into football. So, high school football, I played all four years. I was a defensive tackle. Honestly, throughout all of high school, I was challenged with body image issues and just issues with my identity as a whole. Like, throughout that entire time, there was always this feeling of something's not right, you know? And I grew up in a Latino family, so it was very much like I didn't have the vocabulary to articulate that. So, sports was my real, only outlet when it came to finding a way to not only express myself as a human, but find a place in the world. I needed the community. Even if I wasn't necessarily the most active within the football community at my school, it was definitely something that I needed, and that competitive spirit was something I needed.

Jessica: Okay. I really want to hear how you got into powerlifting. So, tell me how that happened.

Angel: Okay. So, leaving high school, I wasn't recruited or anything for football. I got second team all district my senior year, and then kind of decided, okay, I have had eight concussions. 

Jessica: [gasps] Oh my gosh.

Angel: Yeah. I had had plenty of bodily injuries throughout football, throughout those four years. And even before then, when I was playing things like flag football and younger tackle football. So, going into college, I figured out that my best outlet would be lifting. So I got to college, I moved up to Austin here to go to UT, and I was like, okay, I'm going to buckle down, this is going to be my morning routine. This has to happen every single day. So I would be in Gregory Gym, 6:00am, every single day. I would lift for an hour, go run a mile, then lift for another hour. 

Jessica: Did you know what you were doing? 

Angel: I had general ideas. I think I knew enough from football to understand, okay, squat is important, bench is important, clean is important. But it was really just me kind of going in and winging it. I did a lot of bro splits. You know, everybody has that journey of just trying to figure out what the hell is going on in this room. So, those two hours I spent every single morning was just me really going trial and error and trying to figure out what's the best way to make myself look the best. I definitely was very bodybuilding-minded going into it that first year, because I had struggled with those body issues my entire life, right? And I still hadn't asked the question of, well, maybe I'm trans, you know? I hadn't asked the question of what actually is wrong here. It was just kind of like a, there's something wrong, and this is how I deal with it.

To get into strength sports, I actually started taking an Olympic weightlifting class at UT. They have like a whole series of physical education courses that are focused on weightlifting, martial arts, other sports. And there was one class at the top called advanced weight training. And I was like, oh, cool. I'm going to learn how to powerlift! And then I walked in and the professor looked at me and she was like, okay, so, this is a snatch. This is a clean and jerk. This is what we're going to learn. And I was like, what is this? What is happening? 

Jessica: Oh my god.

Angel: And within a few months I was just obsessed. I was like, I want to get better. It was making the smallest, tiny changes…And I have bad ADHD, so I change everything all the time, especially with my training. So being able to come in and really just experiment with movement and experiment with my own body and experiment and try and figure out how can I make myself the most efficient at lifting these weights? And it was about halfway through that semester that I looked at the professor and I was like, hey, I'd actually like to join the powerlifting club, because I didn't know if there was an Olympic weightlifting team at all within the university. And she looked at me and she was like, no, I'm not going to take you. [laughs] You need to go talk to the Olympic weightlifting coach here at UT and you need to get on that team. So, that's where it started.

Jessica: Awesome. 

Angel: I reached out, got a great response from David Griffin. He probably created the foundation for everything strength for me. Getting in there and being able to learn…Texas Barbell is this tiny little space. It's just a garage, really. And they have platforms lined up wall to wall, and everybody's in there almost shoulder to shoulder, just lifting and enjoying the process and trying to better themselves. And being able to spend almost two years in that environment was very great for me, and it really taught me the ins and outs and how to be a strength athlete, you know?

Jessica: That's amazing. I love that story.

Angel: So, from there…This is a long story, so sorry if I'm just going on and on and on.

Jessica: You do not have to apologize. I am riveted. 

Angel: [laughs] So, what ended up changing things for me was in fact my transition. So, I discovered that I was trans the same year that I started Olympic weightlifting, and throughout my entire first year, year and a half of training, I was struggling with my identity at the same time that I was trying to better myself in the sport. And really, I think that's what was holding me back when I was with the Texas team, was that I couldn't commit completely to strength sports because I wasn't truly myself. So, about a year and a half, two years in, I decided, okay, it's time. I need to start transition. This needs to happen.

I talked to David, talked to some other USAW representatives, and I learned the process. And for USA Weightlifting, you have to take a two year break before you come back to competition. And I, as an athlete, and as an athlete who trains around both cisgender men and women all the time, I understood, like, this is a valid thing. Like, I need to let my body go through the process, not only for the sake of competition, but also for the sake of my own health. Like, I'm trying to let my body do its thing, instead of training nonstop for competition. So, started that process July 2020, mid-pandemic. So, we were just going in and out–

Jessica: Easy time, easy time period! [laughter] 

Angel: It was home gym, home gym, home gym. So, what I found in those first six months of my transition, still training Olympic weightlifting, was that I had no motivation because I was kind of left out of that competition mindset. 

Jessica: That’s interesting.

Angel: For me, it was very much, like, oh, I have to wait two years anyways. Do I have to be consistent this week? That was my question every morning, was like, ugh, I don't feel like training today. I'm just going to go in and feel that I'm weaker. I'm just going to go in and feel worse, right? And that's what was happening, was that as I went week to week, it was just gradual decrease. 90 kilos was starting to feel like 180 kilos. 70 started to feel like 80. So, it was very much just this very demoralizing process of going in and expecting, you know, expecting change, but really not feeling the full extent of it until you’re under the barbell and realizing, oh my god, how am I going to stand this up? 

And the idea for me, as a trans woman who had been training as a male for her entire life, the idea of getting stuck under a snatch and actually having to struggle to stand it up, that was entirely new for me, right? It was entirely new for me. It was just, like I said, this demoralizing process, where by the end of the year, by the time six months had gone by, I was like, I'm not sure if I can keep training like this without having a set goal in mind.

Jessica: So what did you do then in 2021? 

Angel: So, 2021, actually January 1st, my current coach Vinny, his wonderful soul, he decided to send me a text…Like, it was January 1st. He was like, hey, I see you training. Me and him had talked before, we had talked about my thoughts on being trans and training and just wanting to exist in this space. And he was like, look, I understand how you feel about this new MX category that USA Powerlifting has released. I understand that you don't want to be taken apart and separated and put on stage and shown to the world that, oh, look, we're inclusive. Oh, look, we include trans people. I know that you don't want to compete when they're not even going to use a pronoun when they're announcing you, you know? However, I think that we can make some real change and that we can actually tell your story and show the world that this is something important, and this is something that everybody should be talking about.

Jessica: So, explain that to me. So, USAPL, Powerlifting, they have a division that's MX.

Angel: Correct. 

Jessica: How new is that? That must be pretty new.

Angel: It was instituted like January 1st, 2021, like, it was–

Jessica: Oh, okay. So he's like, brand new.

Angel: Exactly.

Jessica: Okay. Wow. And so that's for trans lifters, non-binary lifters, people who don't identify with a specific gender? Is that the idea?

Angel: So, the idea is actually not inclusivity, to be completely honest. The idea is that they needed a response to JayCee, from two years ago where she sued USA Powerlifting. You had her on your show, and you had a great conversation.

Jessica: I did! She was great. People should go listen to JayCee Cooper talk about her experience. 

Angel: Absolutely, love JayCee. However, what USA Powerlifting came back with was, okay, we'll let you compete, but you're not going to be able to compete against anybody else. Just each other. 

Jessica: I did not know that. This is new information for me.

Angel: Yeah. So, when I went onto my membership card to start it all, there was actually just a third gender category on the membership card. You couldn't put male or female, you had to put “MX.” So, going into any competition, if you try and register as a female or a male, you'll get a very – what’s the word? – stern email, talking about how much that trans athletes should not be allowed to compete against cisgender athletes and how we have to remain separate. 

Jessica: That sucks. 

Angel: Yeah.

Jessica: Like, that sounds sucky.

Angel: Yeah, it was definitely, like, it's really just being berated, you know? And every time that I would bring it up to a friend and talk to another person about it, they would ask me, like, why would you do that? Because it's very much just them trying to find a way around being inclusive and allowing me to compete next to cisgender women and compete next to my peers and my friends.

Jessica: Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I did not know that. But like, Vinny was seeing that there could be something here, right? 

Angel: Absolutely.

Jessica: Like, it would give you…At least this gives you a goal to work towards.

Angel: Absolutely.

Jessica: Vinny with the silver lining. [laughs]

Angel: Absolutely. It was also a chance to kind of prove what we were saying, right? Prove that we're not going to be walking in and blowing other athletes out of the water. I get matched at every competition I'm at. I get out-lifted at every competition I've been at. And it was just kind of a way to say, hey, you know what? You can try and get rid of us, but we're going to be on this platform and we're going to make a statement and we're going to say something regardless of what you say.

Jessica: That's amazing. And I just want to tell people that are listening – you just said that you get out-lifted, that there are people who are stronger than you, but you…You're fucking good at this! [Angel laughs] Like, I just want to say. So, in 2021, you did your first competition?

Angel: Correct.

Jessica: These numbers are wild to me. So, you squatted 172.5 kilograms, which is 380.3 pounds. 

Angel: Yes. 

Jessica: Bench pressed 105 kilograms, which is 231.5 pounds, and dead lifted 182.5 kilograms, which is 402.3 pounds. That is so much weight! That is an incredible…Like, I've been lifting for like eight years. It just hurts my body to even think about doing weights like that. That is an incredible thing that you were able to do. So, I hear what you're saying about that there are other people who can lift more than you, but I just want to be on record here with saying, like, what you were able to do is phenomenal. And then when you competed in October of last year, you raised all of that. Like, all those numbers went up. 

Angel: Correct, correct.

Jessica: So, you are…I’m very impressed by what you're able to do.

Angel: Well, I'm actually excited to talk about all of that, because while I did increase and I was able to out-lift myself, it’s been a real struggle just to achieve that. 

Jessica: Yeah. Tell me, like, what has that struggle been? 

Angel: So, just to give you my quick spiel, my experience has been really just like this mixed bag of…Basically, it feels like I take two steps forward and one step back every single time I train. Essentially, what's happening is that I'm taking these hormones that are actively telling my body, “do not utilize testosterone, do not produce more testosterone, and start to drop all of these testosterone-related effects that testosterone has in the body.” So, things like muscle mass, bone density, tendons, ligament strength and length – those all dropped down. I lost so much size. My hands and feet have shrunk. I've lost a little bit of height. And like, it's really the body going in and saying like, oh, we don't need these things anymore. According to your hormones, we don't need these things anymore. Let's just get rid of them. I have a friend who dropped from her men's shoe size to the same number in women's shoes. Like, straight down into it. And like, all these things are happening as I'm trying to increase my numbers, right? As I'm trying to push myself every single day.

Jessica: That is so interesting. I could see what that'd be like a mindfuck.

Angel: Yeah. And what I like to say is, like, say that you, as a cisgender woman, right? You go into training and you train and afterwards you get this boost of testosterone that lasts you the rest of the day, and possibly into the next day. What I like to explain, to put it simply for everybody, is that I don't get to take advantage of that boost of testosterone. I maybe get a little bit of it, but since my body is actively being told, “hey, don't utilize this, don't take advantage of everything that this could give you,” I essentially have to double my workload. What I've found, both by training other trans people and through my own training, is that my volume is directly related to how much I progress. 

Jessica: Wow. Okay. 

Angel: So, I need to be constantly exposing my body to some sort of adaptation and working my ass off, or I'm going to start dropping it off.

Jessica: Wow, Angel. I just feel like I'm learning so much right now. That is interesting. I could see why that would be frustrating, even as you're enjoying the lifting and the feeling and – I want to talk about this in a bit – the community of the gym, like, at the same time that all that's happening, you're dealing with all of this. I could see why that would be a frustration in the thing you love. Like, that would be hard. 

Angel: Yeah. And it's very frustrating to go through a whole cycle and to be on point and to train hard, and then go for your first heavy single the week before comp and have it not move, you know? And that's truly what it felt like, is that I was running in place. That was my constant, constant battle. I'm running in place. I'm running in place. I'm not progressing. If anything, I'm regressing, right? And like I said earlier this week to my girlfriend, I struggle for every pound that I put on that bar. Any day could be different. Any day I could walk in and feel awful, and any day I could walk in and feel good, just simply because my body is so sensitive, essentially.

Jessica: But you do keep walking in every day.

Angel: Exactly. Exactly.

Jessica: Which is a hell of a thing.

Angel: Yeah. Yeah. I think I was taught, because of all those sports at an early age, that every amazing athlete just wants it. They want it. Like, no matter what, they have that drive and that passion for it. It’s borderline addictive, right? Like, these are the things that form our life. And that's really formed my massive thought process around being a champion and having the right to be a champion, you know? Having the right to push yourself to that limit and having the right to push yourself and reach those further heights, to dream to be more. That's so important to me.

Jessica: I love it. I want to talk about your gym, because…So, as I said earlier, I've been going to my gym for like eight years. I always say this all the time: outside of my house, it’s my favorite place in Austin. I love it there. I love my trainer so much. Like, I mentioned her in my book acknowledgements because I feel like she's so important to my mental health and, you know, beyond my physical. So when I was watching the Queer Eye episode, I immediately of course had to look up your gym to see where it was. And I was like, it sounds a lot like my gym! Tell me about this gym that you work out at, that I assume Vinny is at. Tell us their name. How did you find them? And then I would like to hear about the community there, what that has meant to you.

Angel: Absolutely. So, Liberation Barbell Club is the name of the gym.

Jessica: That’s a great name.

Angel: We were established officially in December 2019 and officially opened in January of 2020. I came on to the team is shortly after I started my hormones in late August of 2020, and I came on as the Olympic weightlifting coach and as one of the staff members, and I just joined this amazing community of lifters who just think that everybody should have access to this thing that we do, and everybody should have a safe space to do this thing that we do. When I first came on, I actually stumbled across it…I was on Instagram, and an ad just popped up on my screen, and it screamed in my face, “LGBTQ-owned, veteran owned, woman-owned!” And I was like, somebody is really trying to get my attention right now. [laughs]

Jessica: The algorithm is working. Instagram knows me.

Angel: This was right after I started my hormones, and one of the fears that was expressed was, well, how are you going to get a job? You're gonna work in the fitness industry as a trans coach and a trans athlete? Where are you gonna get your money? And I was so grateful for the opportunity not just to send the message but to get a message immediately back asking me to come in the next day and, like, not even interview, just come talk to the owner. My close friend, Laurie, she really just grabbed me and wrapped me up and took me in her arms and was like, we're going to be okay. [laughs]

Jessica: I love that! That makes me so happy.

Angel: Basically what she found was that so many people in the industry just don't have that safe space to go and train and feel like themselves. And she was like, well, hell, if they don't have it, then you know what? I'm going to frickin’ do it. So, she's just created this wonderful community of lifters of all backgrounds, all originalities, everywhere. We have so many diverse groups and people, and every single person is just as friendly to the other person and every single person is rooting for each other and every single person is pushing each other to be better than what they are today. 

Jessica: So great. It's just been…It was life-changing for me to find a gym space where I felt safe. There's lots of reasons that women don't like to go to gyms, and I don't ever feel any of that stuff there. And I just…It makes such a difference. I of course want to talk about Queer Eye. [Angel laughs] So like, can we do this? 

Angel: Let’s do it. Let's do it. What do you wanna know?

Jessica: Like, everything. [laughter] 400 questions. So, you ended up on the show because your girlfriend recommended you, I assume, when she heard that they were coming.

Angel: Correct. So, my girlfriend and Vinny in tandem with Laurie and my manager at the gym, Julia, they all kind of teamed up and were like, hey, we should nominate her for Queer Eye. And I'm not sure if there was ever like a, you know, oh, she's going to get it. It was just kind of like, oh, let's just say screw it and do it. And then it was April of 2021 that I was late to a doctor's appointment, our life was falling apart, our old apartment had sprung a sewage leak. So, we were just freaking out. So, I'm rushing to this doctor's appointment and Laurie calls me and she's like, hey, I know that everything’s going absolutely swimmingly for you right now, but you might get a call from a producer for Netflix in about 45 minutes. And I was like, excuse me?

Jessica: Was that the first time that you had heard…?

Angel: Yes. 

Jessica: Oh my gosh. It was a real surprise!

Angel: I didn't even know that they had nominated me. I was completely just blown away. And from there it was just like producers called and then two more producers, the two executive producers Lindsay and Wesley…Oh my god, I miss them so much. I loved them so much.

Jessica: Aww!

Angel: They invited me down for lunch, and I remember just like, you know, eating this panini and just kind of casually telling my story and just telling them everything I've been going through. And I look up, and Wesley's got like his napkin over his face, like he's trying to wipe his tears away. Lindsay's just like barring it, looking straight at me, so intense, just so absorbed by the story. And I was like, oh, this is real. [laughs]

Jessica: That's amazing. I also think that they saw you and they were like, this is the best smile that we have ever seen. [Angel laughs] And we need to put this on television. Like, I think I said to my husband and my son as we were watching, like, she has the best smile. That's the best smile. [Angel laughs] So, I wanted to ask, like, what is something about the show that would surprise those of us who only see sort of like the packaged version? Like, how long does it actually take to film an episode? Is it actually the five days as they show up on screen? 

Angel: Yes, it is. 

Jessica: Oh!

Angel: There’s some other clips here and there that are filmed outside, that they kind of just pick you up and sporadically get, but like all of the clips that are directly in the show, like the main meat portion of the show, from the gym surprise to the home reveal, that is all within those five days. Actually, for me, it was four days. 

Jessica: Wow.
Angel: We were going to film on a Monday, and then production had to halt because of COVID. And so we had to push to a different week and we started on Tuesday instead. 

Jessica: Huh. Wow. 

Angel: So, from that gym surprise, they whisk you away and you are Queer Eye’d for the entire week.

Jessica: That's amazing. So like, does Jonathan actually cut your hair?

Angel: Yes, yes. Yeah. It's all authentic.

Jessica: I want Jonathan to cut my hair! [laughs] 

Angel: You said earlier that…You were like, oh, we just got the packaged version. But let me tell you, if there is absolutely one more episode that is genuinely not packaged for the audience, that is genuine and authentic, it is this episode. Every single moment. There was no prior writing. There was no expectation. There was no scripting. Every single moment from the beginning of our filming to the end was very much honest and us.

Jessica: That's amazing. I love to know that, because it feels like that when you're watching, but I'm, you know, I don't trust…It’s Hollywood or whatever. But that's really great to know, because it does feel very authentic as you're experiencing it – which I assume that's why people react so strongly in lots of ways. So, I wanted to ask about the two phases of this. So you film in April of 2021, and obviously this didn't come out until a couple of weeks ago, was it like December 31st or something? What is that period like in between? Like, what was the impact on your sort of day-to-day life from your Queer Eye experience, before sort of the fame of it?

Angel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the impact just on Queer Eye was like, all those things that they had taught me throughout that week, not only just like skincare and haircare and teaching me how to wear my clothes and stuff like that, but teaching me how to be kind to myself and how to be honest with myself about what I need, and honest with other people about what I need. Those things happened immediately, in my opinion. I made adjustments. I immediately was like, I need to be more positive, I need to be more open, and I need to be more genuine with the world about what I need and what I want. I'm somebody who needs to tell the world what she wants. And that's very important. I think that's one of the things Jonathan definitely just hammered into me that week. They were like, you deserve a voice, and you deserve to tell the world that you need something. And of course like the outfits, oh my god, the closet, and the accessories, and the skincare!

Jessica: A dream!

Angel: A dream, yeah. [laughs]

Jessica: What a dream to have Tan pick out your closet for you. 

Angel: Yeah. It was just so fun to go through everything and try things on and experiment. And that's one thing he really wanted to do, was give me the ability to experiment and really put together my own outfits and put together different combinations and find Angel’s style. I think that's something I said, is that I haven't found Angel’s style. Well, I can assure you, she has been found! [Jessica laughs] She is done, more or less at least. [laughs]

Jessica: That is great. So then let's talk about what the last few weeks have been like. I assume, based on just what I know from trans friends of mine, that there's probably been some shit, but also I assume you've probably heard a lot from people who are inspired – like my family, you know? I was telling Angel before he got on here that my son thought it was cool as hell that I was going to talk to her today. So, what has this part of the Queer Eye experience been like for you so far?

Angel: I mean, just to contrast it to the last six months, this has been the most fast-paced week of my life! [laughs] 

Jessica: I can’t...When I wrote you, I really thought you were going to be like, “I'm booked for three months.” [Angel laughs] So I was thrilled to get in here. 

Angel: It's slowly building and booking up. But these past six months I just kept hearing, like, this is going to be amazing, this is going to be amazing, this is going to be everything that we want it to be. And it was just surreal because I'm just doing my thing, living at home, not really changed much. Nobody really knows who I am, I'm secret. And then all of a sudden it was like, boom, episode comes out, and my phone dies, like, instantly, it's like so fast. My phone went from like 80% to 10% within like an hour, just notifications and notifications, notifications, notifications. My Instagram DMs are still filling up daily, just over and over. And I try my best to get through every single one and answer as many people as I can and say thank you so much for your love.

And also, on top of that, like, the opportunity to share what I think and share my ideas has been huge. Just having people like you reach out this week and say, hey we want to talk to you and we want to hear you. That has been so important, not only just for like, you know, my personal self-confidence – because this does feel good! [laughter] But also because it's so important that people hear trans voices and see the world through a trans lens. 

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, this is a good transition. Thank you, Angel. You set that up perfectly. I wanted to talk to you about…I mean, last year, Texas was one of the states that passed one of these anti-trans sports bills that I fucking hate. It's such a disappointment. And so I wanted to ask, like, what do you want people to know about trans athletes or trans powerlifters? What do you feel like they're not getting? And I was going to say, like, what would you want to say to the people who support that law, but...That’s not even it. Like, what do you want to say to the young trans athletes out there right now that are living through this?

Angel: To the young trans athletes, I would say work hard. Try your absolute hardest, no matter what gets in your way. I think that my biggest realization this year is that the world is not the friendliest place for us, of course, and that we really do need to work harder and double our workload and really push ourselves past what we think was possible because we are put in this position, not only socially and mentally, but physically, where we have to struggle, you know? With these bills coming out, it was just setback after setback throughout the country. We get small wins here and there when a bill would get knocked down, but then more and more. And for me, especially with the trans kids, for me coming into it, I just can't understand how you can look at a child and say, sorry, you can't play sports with your friends, you know? And as somebody who grew up needing that community and needing those sports to really just function throughout my early childhood and teenage years, I couldn't imagine a life without it.

I think that sport is a human right. We've been playing sport since before we've been calling each other man and a woman. We’ve been playing sports since before we were in cities, before we planted seeds in the ground, we've been playing sports. And to take that away, to take the benefits and the community and the growth that sport brings, to take that away from kids and to isolate them and to put them away…We’re already forced to isolate our kids, you know? We're already forced to keep our kids home just to keep them safe, and to take away an avenue for an entire population of kids, an important population of kids, it's really not fair for them. And it's really not fair for them to grow up without any of that, of those benefits and that support.

Really a lot of the work that I do is focused in saying, hey, there's more positives to this than there will ever be negatives to inclusion in sport. There are more positives to letting kids be kids and be with their friends and not be left behind. Like, that is so much more important than anything else. And we should be educating our kids to not just understand that this is something that could benefit them and help grow them, but also give our kids the language to articulate how they feel and the language to say, hey, this is something that I need for myself. To the subject of trans kids, I think it's important that we give kids the ability to articulate that they're cisgender just like we should give kids here the ability to articulate they’re trans. I am just as excited for a cisgender boy to come up to me and say, “I am sure I'm a boy.” I'm just as excited to hear somebody who's transgender come up to me and say, “I'm trans, just like you.”

Jessica: You had a great Instagram post about gender euphoria. That's reminding me of that. Like, you want people to be happy in their identities and in their gender and in their bodies. That should be everyone’s...We should all be working towards that.

Angel: Absolutely. It's very much like, why are we punishing people for wanting to increase their quality of life? Like, why are we punishing people there? 

Jessica: I know! It’s so…Thank you, Angel. That's it.

Angel: Especially when it comes to other things too. It's not just about trans people. There's a lot of sports right now, especially sports that aren’t necessarily associated with the Olympics, that don't let masters athletes take hormone therapy, right? Athletes that oftentimes probably need that therapy to improve their quality of life day to day, women after menopause, like, they should be allowed the benefits of hormone therapy. Men after a certain age as testosterone starts to drop. They should be allowed the ability to improve their quality of life through supplementation, just so they can, you know, function better as humans.

Things like ADHD – why are we preventing athletes from trying to improve their day-to-day life through medication when, like…Just so we can say that this is fair sport, you know?When in reality, does Adderall and Vyvanse really give us like extra strength and stamina? No, it doesn’t, you know? And I think that we should be prioritizing improving how we live our day-to-day lives instead of trying to cling to this false representation of fair sport.

Jessica: I one hundred percent agree. I wrote a piece for Vox in the summer last year about fairness in sport, just picking at this idea that there's something fair here in what's going on. It makes me so mad. Thank you for all that. I appreciate your time and your thoughts. 

Angel: No, I appreciate being on. I think that when it comes to fair sports, we have to be honest with ourselves and say that sports are inherently unfair. I mean, just without even bringing gender into it, you can look at physical inequality among cisgender people, you know? Every single athlete that's at the top of their game and at the top of any sport probably has some form of advantage. Whether it be anything ranging from limb length to how well they take hormones. 

Jessica: Yeah. That’s the point!

Angel: That’s the point! Exactly. [Jessica laughs] And I think that beyond that, so many athletes don't get the opportunity to increase their abilities because of income problems, because of social issues.

Jessica: Yeah. Because of systemic inequality. 

Angel: Exactly. Like, how many low-income Black and brown athletes, cisgender low-income Black and brown athletes are missing their chance today? Are missing the chance today to go to any gym or go to any school and say, hey, I want to play sports. I think I can be good at this. I think that I can be a champion.

Jessica: Yeah! No one's passing bills to make that fair.

Angel: Exactly. We should be universally saying that everybody should have a right to be a champion. Everybody should have the right to push themselves and work hard and put a medal around their necks and envision themselves on the podium. 

Jessica: Yeah. I love it. 

Angel: We shouldn't be taking that away from people because taking that away will honestly detract from lives, and taking that away is what ends up causing high suicide rates and high rates of self-harm and high rates of depression and anxiety. 

Jessica: Yeah. Wow. Well, before I let you go, I did want to ask, are you competing again soon?

Angel: Yes. So, I will be competing later on this month at the Violet Crown here in town at Liberation Barbell Club. 

Jessica: Oh! I want to go to that!

Angel: So, if anybody wants to tag along and come by, you are free to come. I'm not sure if they're going to be charging anything at the door quite yet. I will keep you updated on my Instagram page for sure. But you are more than welcome!

Jessica: I will! I will be there. [Angel laughs] Do you have any specific powerlifting goals for this year? 

Angel: Well, this next meet is going to be classic raw, so I'll be squatting in wraps. So, I'm definitely aiming for at least a 400 squat this month in wraps. The wraps will give me a few pounds, I will admit. But that’s my big goal.

Jessica: Yeah, but still. Golly! That is just incredible.

Angel: [laughs] And I get the opportunity to pull on a deadlift bar this month too, as opposed to the power bar that USAPL regulations allow.

Jessica: Tell me…Explain that to me.

Angel: Okay. So, a power bar is what's commonly used in USA Powerlifting, and that's your standard barbell. It has a, I guess, a standard tensile strength. It’s very much to competition standard. So, you won't see much whip on the bar. You won't see much bend on the bar until you get to about, I'd say, 600, 700 pounds, right? For a deadlift bar, the tensile strength is a little bit different and it allows for more of a whip and more of a bend in the bar. So, if you set up just the right way, you can actually start getting the bar off the ground without even pushing on it. If you wedge just the right way, that bar will already start coming off the ground before you even start pulling the bar.

Jessica: I just have learned so much today. That is so interesting. And finally, I just want to ask, how can our listeners find you on the worldwide web? 

Angel: Well, you can look me up on Instagram. My username is _.arkangel_, but I'm sure that if you look up just arkangel I’ll be one of the first people to pop up. You can also look up Angel Flores. And then you can visit my website, arkangel.squarespace.com, and find me through Liberation Barbell Club's website as well.

Jessica: Thank you, Angel, so much for being on Burn It All Down. Everyone, please go check out episode two of the latest season of Queer Eye to see Angel and all of her beautiful, glorious…You gotta go see the smile, if nothing else, you gotta see it! [Angel laughs] Thank you, Angel, so much.

Angel: No, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to be on today.

Jessica: That's it for this episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. Follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Listen, subscribe and rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn. For show links and transcripts, check out our website, burnitalldownpod.com. You will also find the link there for our merch at our Bonfire store. A thank you to our patrons. Your support means the world. If you want to become a sustaining donor to our show, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. As always, burn on and not out.