Interview: Howard Megdal, Founder of The Next, 2021 WNBA Preview

Lindsay Gibbs talks with Howard Megdal, founder and editor of The Next and The IX newsletter, about all things WNBA. In anticipation of the the 25th WBNA season tipping off Friday May 14, they discuss in-depth each of the 12 WNBA teams' prospective rosters and who they think will be this season's gamechangers.

This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Lindsay: Hi flamethrowers, Lindsay here, and I am so excited. So, this is releasing on a Thursday, and on Friday the 25th season of the WNBA begins, which is hard to believe for a lot of reasons! And I'm so excited. Every year here at Burn It All Down we like to do a little WNBA season preview, and so for our interview this week I have on my dear friend Howard Megdal, who is a first time Burn It All Down guest, which is just pretty silly. Howard, as I'm sure most of you know, is the editor in chief, man in charge at The Next, which is your 24/7 home for women's basketball coverage, and I hope you're all subscribed to it. You know, I wouldn't be pushing something this enthusiastically at the top of the episode if I wasn't very confident that you will all get a lot from it.

But Howard and I are going to talk lots of things WNBA season, and we're going to go team by team to kind of see…Try to do it quickly, we’ll see. [Howard laughs] Howard and I are known for very quick discussions! [laughs] 

Howard: We have never had one. I mean, our 2 minute ones go 30. I know. It’s true.

Lindsay: Hi Howard! [laughs]

Howard: Lindsay Gibbs, I am so excited to be here. I have been in Burn It All Down subscriber for a long time. I am such a fan. I am a Lindsay Gibbs fan, as anybody who follows me on Twitter knows. And so thank you for having me.

Lindsay: We are so excited. Howard and I actually, as much as we agree about most things and as close as we are, we actually don't a hundred percent agree on a lot of basketball analysis stuff, which makes me excited because that's fun.

Howard: I agree. Let’s fight. I look forward to it.

Lindsay: I'm very excited. So, I've got my boxing gloves on. First of all, 25th WNBA season, I want to ask a couple of logistical questions. We're not in a bubble this year, right? Like, so some people probably haven't been paying attention since last season, which was the bubble season at IMG. This season, is it a full season? Are we going to be in arenas? Are there going to be fans? What do we know so far? 

Howard: Great questions. So there are going to be, it looks like somewhere between some fans, most fans, right from the get go, just about everywhere. We're going to be in market as a result of that for the WNBA season. It's 32 games, which is slightly less than what we have typically gotten – 34 through the years. It is a little bit less than the 36 that was originally planned in 2020. 2020 ended up having of course a regular season of 22 games because…And I don't know if a lot of listeners have seen it, but there was a COVID-19 thing.

Lindsay: Just Google that, we don't have time to get into that. [laughs]

Howard: Sorry. You’re right. [laughs]

Lindsay: Google “coronavirus.”

Howard: There was a whole thing. And is. But anyway, we're getting most of what we would usually expect from the WNBA season in terms of what's available, what people can see and how they do it. Which I think is pretty good, you know, I view it as progress. I'm a perfect is the enemy of the good type of person.

Lindsay: You know, I'm excited because last year was just such an odd season to have the announcement of the new CBA, have all this momentum and then to have to do the season in a bubble, which was very special for a lot of reasons – was way, way, way better than nothing, don’t get me wrong. They really made the best that they could out of the situation. But you know, there was a lot of free agency moves in 2020, and a lot of these big names are going to their new home markets for the first time and I’m excited.

Howard: I mean, rookies too. 

Lindsay: Rookies, yeah. That's what I mean, like, the new players from 2020, a lot of them, this is their first time. So, a lot of reasons to be excited. And of course we will have a one month Olympic break in the middle of the season because the Tokyo Olympics for some reason are still happening. [laughs] But we're going to bring that up in our discussion. So I just wanted to put that out there that there's gonna be some player movement. Howard, before we get started, just because I know everyone listens to the very end of every single episode, but just in case they get distracted for a few minutes, give your one minute The Next pitch about what look forward to the season. 

Howard: Sure. Well, if you go to The Next, follow us @TheNextHoops. You can subscribe for $9 a month, $72 a year. What you get is 24/7 coverage of all WNBA teams. We have a beat writer for each of the 12. We have coverage of women's college basketball, recruiting, USA basketball and international. We cover it all. We do it in a 24/7, 365 format. We give it the urgency that you are accustomed to, that you tend to expect from the coverage of men's sports, and it's overdue. It is part of The IX. The IX newsletter, of course, we have across six different women's sports. Lindsay Gibbs is a The IX writer alum, used to write Tennis Tuesdays.

So, that combination, making sure that women's sports coverage is not siloed and that people who are interested in one sport or getting access to all the rest of it, that is the way in which we do it at The IX newsletter, is the way to do it. And of course the great Jackie Powell handles social media for both. So, that is what we do and why we do it. This week we're going to roll out individual team previews on all 12 teams. We're going to hit news as it happens, and we're going to have a special subscriber-only conversation, it looks like, with Ann Meyers Drysdale [Lindsay gasps] to break news right here. Ann is one of my favorite humans.

Lindsay: Yeah! Okay. Well, I will definitely be there for that. That sounds great. All right. Let's dive in. Here's what we're going to do: I've taken last year's results and I flipped them. So, we're going to go through and we'll start with the four teams that didn't make the playoffs last year and work our way from there. So that means you know, we want to start with the New York Liberty who had a pretty devastating 2020 season, even though it was not a year with high expectations going 2 and 20 in 2020 – while it is a great record for alliteration purposes, [laughter] I don't think it was the record that anyone was really hoping for. Their head coach is still Walt Hopkins, but they had had a very interesting offseason. Sabrina Ionescu, back, right?

Howard: Well, and was never really there. I mean, she played three games last year, two and a quarter, arguably, you know?

Lindsay: From everything that we know, she's recovered, she's ready to go at the start of this season. She had ankle surgery, 

Howard: All the reports…They haven't had a preseason game, and it's not possible to see the preseason games unless for handful of teams which were in market anyway. So, it's very hard. I am very much team "you’ll learn almost nothing from preseason games anyway.” But that said, yes, by all reports Sabrina's back and very much herself which is a huge, huge thing. I mean, like, I just gotta say about the 2 and 20, they didn't care what their record was going to be last year. Like, did not care. Didn’t care before the season, didn't care during. And if they had cared about their record they could have deviated from what they were trying to do, which was to install a very specific system and culture, and I don't know that they would have won like 12 games, but like, could they've gone more than 5 and 15 or 5 and 17? I think it's possible.

But what they were able to do as a result was get a really clear look at who fit and who didn't and what they were then doing with free agency, where they knew they had a ton of cap room coming. And they then did that. 

Lindsay: Yeah. So let's talk about that briefly. So, the big moves, the big additions are Natasha Howard from the Seattle Storm and then Laney, adding her back into…Or not back, but into the mix after her breakout season in Atlanta last year. You've also got another shooter, Sami Whitcomb coming in, which is another exciting addition. You've lost Megan Walker and Kia Nurse to Phoenix. Amanda Zahui B signed with Los Angeles during the offseason, and then your big first round pick that we had…They didn't have as many first round picks as they did in 2020, because that would be impossible, I think. [laughs]

Howard: Statistically, it would be very difficult to have 17 first round picks, I agree.

Lindsay: Yeah. But they've got UCLA’s Michaela Onyenwere and Rebecca Allen has returned. The other big news you have will be who's out now with injury. 

Howard: Yeah. Jocelyn Willoughby, during practice, tore her Achilles, which is just, just…Jocelyn Willoughby is a very smart….First of all, a really good scout by the Liberty to get her out of UVA.

Lindsay: Yeah, I agree.

Howard: And understand what she could be able to be, and then to turn around and lose her here when she was going to be a critical part. Again, you go back to like, alright, what are they trying to build systematically? Well, she was such, she's such a good fit at both ends. So, it was just heartbreaking, not just cause she's from Jersey – although not not because of that as well.

Lindsay: Yeah. [laughs] So, Howard might have a bias and we might try not to hold it against him. And to finish up my little Liberty offseason summary here, Asia Durr is still a COVID long-hauler and her kind of status for the season is still in question, which is devastating. We just want her to get better. That’s a priority. But you've got Rebecca Allen back this season, I believe. And then some of your other core players who are returning, who were there last year, you know, Layshia Clarendon, Jazmine Jones who had a good rookie season; Kiah Stokes and bunch of other second year players from their rookie squad. So, Howard, all of this said, you mentioned culture. What is this culture that Walt Hopkins felt that he built last year? 

Howard: Well, let's find out, right? Because you know, that's the most overused phrase in sports right now. But it does matter when you have players buying into what they're doing, and I'm somebody who doesn't necessarily believe you have to be conflict-free in order to make it work. So, there's two elements to it. One of them is to play in what is an uptempo modern, you know, arguably taking what Mike Thibault does and taking it to another level in terms of extremism, right? Because they are five out and that is the idea almost all times. And they have a bunch of players, both, like you said, some rookies they saw last year, having Sabrina Ionescu was not a small thing as it relates to that. But also Rebecca Allen is a very big deal. You know, somebody who shoots better than 40% from three consistently, somebody who…And nobody talks about it, and it drives me crazy. She's a very good shot blocker.

So, if you have somebody who could play a wing position, somebody who's able to roll with switches on a regular basis while sometimes she's going to switch up against a five and she can be able to block a shot – that is not a small thing, and she's consistently a top 10 in block percentage when you look at what she's able to do. The one thing…And it’s where culture and culture come into conflict, and talk about Amanda Zahui B not resigning and ultimately went to the Los Angeles Sparks and leaving aside the fact that just from a locker room perspective she is just delightful and a great quote at every turn, just from a journalistic perspective she will be missed in New York. But in addition to that, Amanda Zahui B has that very much a stretch five game, but she and Walt Hopkins clearly by the end of the season were not on the same page.

There was a game where she was benched and when they made the decision not to bring her back and instead, you know, Kiah Stokes was the one who they're bringing back, and Kiah Stokes has some defensive value but the effort to get Kiah Stokes to shoot the three did not go well in year one. I believe she was something like 23% from deep. It just says to me that there was a question of culture, as opposed to the ability to be five out. And again, when I say taking Thibault to the next level, obviously we’ll get to the Mystics, but you know, he's going with Tina Charles as your traditional conventional five here. And obviously a super talented one who could do more, but he is very much a four out coach and Walt, at least by all indications…And obviously with some wrinkles, like Sabrina's gonna play a lot of pick and roll, is very much a five out coach.

And so, it's just gonna be fascinating to see. I can't wait to see it in-person, not just because the chance to see in-person basketball for the first time in over a year is going to be very good for my soul.

Lindsay: Yeah. I would say that judging by the Liberty fan reaction on social media that signing Kiah Stokes and letting Zahui B go was not a popular move. [laughter] So, I'm curious to see how that looks out. But let's just say the biggest question I have is what can Natasha Howard and Betnijah Laney, but really Ionescu, like, what is that combination going to be? And what's the ceiling for that this year? Is it going to be a disappointment if they don't make the playoffs?

Howard: Devastating as could be is the ceiling for it. I mean, Natasha Howard is somebody who continues to level up. When you think about her career, that's just basically the story, right? She's a bench player in Indiana, and by the way, they went to the WNBA finals, then she goes to Minnesota and she becomes, you know, essentially a six woman a year out there. I don't know if she won the award, but if she didn’t she certainly needed to. Cheryl Reeve regrets it, naturally, likes to joke about letting her go on to Seattle where she’s a critical part in Seattle and DPOY, defensive player of the year, and then wanted to be a featured performer, and now can be a featured performer and has made herself into an elite three point shooter to go along with just athleticism that…When your athleticism is off the charts in the WNBA, your athleticism is amazing. [laughter] And that's what the case is.

Lindsay: That's as high as you can get. That's as high as you can get.

Howard: Yeah! Sabrina was so good on the pick and roll at Oregon. You know, Ruthy Hebard and Satou Sabally got sooo many easy looks in that Kelly Graves offense, because Kelly’s no dummy and was running the pick and roll with Sabrina as much as possible. And so, Layshia Clarendon is a tremendously effective point guard, but it's just a different caliber of player we're talking about when it comes to what's Sabrina brings offensively, not least of which because a defender has to stay close to her because Sabrina Ionescu is going to knock down the three. So, the question of will it be disappointing if they don't make the playoffs…I just think about this league, and there are, to my mind, there are some teams who I think are probably not going to make the playoffs this year.

Lindsay: Whoa, whoa, whoa! [laughs] 

Howard: I’m just saying, I don't think there are like four of them where you could be like, yeah, probably not. I think there are probably two of them, that we'll get to, you know? And so that means effectively there are 10 playoff caliber teams for 8 spots. That's what it looks like to me right now.

Lindsay: I agree. I'm going to try and not make too many predictions. We are right now blazing past my time, my schedule on the first team. So I'm going to try and move past the Liberty. But I just want to conclude this by saying this team right here, even compared to last year's team, I mean, maybe especially compared to last year's team [laughs] is the phrasing I should be using…

Howard: But yeah, like when your season was the Pete Campbell “Not great, Bob” gif…

Lindsay: Yeah. Well, no, but I'm excited that this is a team that gets to premiere in Barclays.

Howard: Oh God. Yes. I mean, we were robbed of that last year by 2020.

Lindsay: Yeah. But this is a so much better team that I'm excited that it’s this version, is what I'm saying.

Howard: Fair. 

Lindsay: So anyways, moving on, number 11 last year was the Indiana Fever who went 6 and 16 in their first year under head coach Marianne Stanley. I'm gonna try to not let Howard interrupt me while I do our quick rundown of all season, unless, you know, I make a mistake, but their big first round pick was Kysre Gondrezick, I think is how you say it. I've been looking for WNBA pronunciation guides – which don't exist quite yet, so please forgive me. I have done the research, but the WNBA does not make it easy with rookies right now. Now, could they have put together a pronunciation guide, like, say for the draft? Yes. [laughs] Did they probably put it together and just not release it to media? Yes! [laughs]

But anyways – oh, also wanted to note, we are recording this on Monday. Rosters have not been set yet. So, we're going to try not to talk about too much about who's going to make the rosters, since those rosters will be set by the time you're listening to this. But just so you all know, if we talk about a player who ends up cut, it's not that we missed that new, it's just we're recording it on Monday while some teams still have 18 on their roster, which is–

Howard: More than they'll end up with. 

Lindsay: It’s too many, there's just too many. So then the Fever actually had some big offseason changes. They said goodbye to three of the cores of their group: Erica Wheeler, Natalie Achonwa, and Candice Dupree have all left, all those bets. They brought in though some more bets who are very interesting: Jessica Breland, Danielle Robinson, Jantel Lavender – that technically happened in-season last year, but this will be our first time seeing it. And Lindsay Allen is there in training camp as well. Julie Allemand, who was the big rookie of the year option, probably won't be with the team I think until after the Olympics because she's Belgian and has got a lot of Belgian things to deal with.

And then you've got returning kind of core players for them: Kelsey Mitchell, Lauren Cox, Tierra McCowan, Tiffany Mitchell, Victoria Vivians, and I think that sums up the Fever. What did you think about these offseason moves, and does this tell you anything about what Marianne Stanley's plan is? And Tamika Catchings’ plan is?

Howard: So, not enough.

Lindsay: [laughs] That's where I am!

Howard: I want to start by what I do like about the Indiana Fever.

Lindsay: Well, that's good.

Howard: Yeah, I know, right? What better time for happy talk then at the start of the season, right? Everyone's 0 and 0, everybody's tied for first place. Marianne Stanley is an icon in women's basketball, dating back 50 years. She's done everything. She knows more about this game than anyone, Tamika Catchings, other than. Not just the best players statistically, if you go to buy win shares and history of the league, she's 20% better than anyone, statistically by win shares and history of the league, is a brilliant basketball mind. So what they're coming up with probably made some sense, and eventually that may be clear to me, the sense that it makes, but I have some questions. I have some questions in the back court and I have some questions in the front court. I mean, other than that, it's very clear what they're doing. Well, I’m saying, you know, I have a vague the idea of what's going on on the wings, but in the front court…And part of this is not the current regime’s fault, right? Pokey Chatman, who builds teams and, you know, has done a very good job of that, she drafted Tierra McCowan. New regime comes in, they draft Lauren Cox. Here's your question: now, because of Lauren Cox late to the bubble because of COVID and injury didn't play much last year, are they playing together? You can McCowan an argument that Cox can be stretch four, she can shoot the ball out to three. Tierra Macallan is just a matchup problem as a five against basically every other five there is. That makes sense. If you're not playing them together for an extended period of time, I don't think you’re learning about what your franchise can be. Two big lottery picks under rookie contract.

Lindsay: I agree.

Howard: That's one. Number two: Kelsey Mitchell signed long term under second deal now. Very smart. Kelsey Mitchell, her ceiling is…I'm now sure. I mean, I don't know what her ceiling is. That’s part of the problem. Is Kelsey Mitchell’s ceiling to be a point guard, primary ball handler, or is Kelsey Mitchell somebody on championship team who's a Jewel Lloyd, you know? That’s the question. Skylar Diggins-Smith is one model. Jewel Lloyd is a different model. Maybe she's a Cappie. But it was easier to be a Cappie and win championships in Phoenix because she had a relatively obscure guard next to her named Diana Taurasi, who might be unfamiliar to many people, but she was really good. I don't know what happened to her.

So, point being, we need to know both of those things. We need to know what Kelsey Mitchell is, the person you've given the max deal to, and how you worked around her. And you need to know what McCowan and Cox shaking out is. Until I know those answers, I don't really feel like I have a handle on what Indiana is. We can get into some of the other parts of it. But those to me are like the flashing neon lights for as it relates to the Fever. 

Lindsay: I completely agree. And it's like, if you look at some of these switches, it's like basically Danielle Robinson for Erica Wheeler and it just like, I don’t…That's not a big like game breaking…You know what I mean? Like that doesn't give me–

Howard: It was very different. I'm a huge fan of D Rob and what she brings, like, without question, but D Rob is not a three point shooter. D Rob is not somebody who looks for her offense first, and so D Rob makes the argument, oh, okay, well, Kelsey is your regular two. But then when you make the draft pick, you do it in four, and it's like, well, okay. So, what was the idea of long-term behind that? And I'm sure there's an answer. The point being, there is an answer to that. But both Marianne and Catch talk in terms of flexibility, and I just feel like at a certain point you got to commit to a path and I want to know what that path is. I'm a big believer with these teams, you follow what they do and not what they say, and so I want to see what are the lineups Kelsey's in. 

Lindsay: I agree completely. Julie Alleman had a great, great rookie season, and I'd like to see her and Kelsey together more with, you know, a consistent front core.

Howard: Too many turnovers, though.

Lindsay: Yeah, in the first year with the team around her that it had no practice time together, you know, at all. So, I mean, there was so much pressure on her. I almost don't blame her for quite as many as those turnovers.

Howard: I think that's fair. I just think it's also fair to say until we see her not do that…And I liked Julie Allemand and she was super efficient from the field, but that's a big red flag for me when it comes to a point guard. 

Lindsay: I think what we're seeing right now is, you know, Achonwa and Dupree gone. There's really no excuse now. They used those two players as excuses to not commit to Tierra McCowan, right? Like, on a weekend basis, you know? And they're both gone, and you brought Jantel Lavender in who is probably an off the bench six woman. You know what I mean? Like, back to back type right now. So, I'm hoping we're going to get to see them really commit to this young front court, and this is going to be another growing year for the Fever and I hope that they, like you said, figure out what they have because they didn't last year.

Howard: Agreed. I would just say, the last thing on it. There are people who don't think Lauren Cox can play the four full-time next to Tierra McCowan at the five, and so we're going to find that out pretty quickly. That's going to be a really interesting thing to watch.

Lindsay: Yeah. We just don't know. We literally just don't know right now. But Tierra McCowan needs to start every game for the first half of the season, at least. 

Howard: And the second half. 

Lindsay: But yeah, I mean, if it goes horribly the first half, right? You know what I mean? Like you're ready to move on, but that's what I'm saying. 

Howard: I would do it the whole year.

Lindsay: That's my ideal. But I'm just saying…

Howard: Why are you benching Tierra McCowan? 

Lindsay: Sorry, I don’t know. Let's move on to a team where there's not many question marks: the Atlanta Dream who went 7 and 15 in 2020.

Howard: A conventional year.

Lindsay: Yeah. They were sold. Renee Montgomery is now one of the co-owners, along with some big name investors. Nicki Collen though just last week went to Baylor. So, congratulations to coach Collen. But it's rare to have a coach leave in the middle of training camp, I would say, a head coach. Like, I would just say that it's a dramatic move. So, you got some rebuilding. Mike Petersen is the interim coach, seems to have no desire to be the real head coach, but seems to just be hanging out and having fun. Their first round pick: big name, Aari McDonald. They have added Odyssey Sims, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough, Tianna Hawkins, Cheyenne Parker, all in the offseason.

And of course they've got returning Chennedy Carter. Tiffany Hayes is back after taking last season off. I'm very curious what her game is looking like these days. Shekinna Stricklen, Courtney Williams, Elizabeth Williams, Monique Billings, and I believe Kalani Brown is still on the team too. I don't know what's going to happen at the bottom of their roster this week, but I think that these are all the pieces that are gonna make a big difference. I would like to start, I'm sure there's gonna shock you, by talking about their guard situation. [laughs]

Howard: I think that’s a good place to start.

Lindsay: You know, we've got Chennedy Carter, who had a great rookie season until she dealt with injury, like so many others on the level. Then we're going to see her with Courtney Williams. We're adding Aari McDonald in there. You know, everyone knows I'm a Shatori Walker-Kimbrough fan, although I'm not quite sure where she fits into this roster. Odyssey Sims – is she going to be our main? Who do you think is going to be our main ball handler in Atlanta? 

Howard: Well, I had one answer for you when Nicki Collen was coaching, and as far as I can tell from talking to Mike and talking to Darius, that's not going to change, which is to say that Aari was the primary point guard in 5 on 5s they were playing internally, with Chennedy Carter even on the floor. That's a little hard to fathom [Lindsay laughs] with Chennedy Carter v-ing one of the best isolation players I've ever seen, I've ever seen! That's that's the level of talent that Chennedy Carter brings. But I don't think this is a problem in a way that, you know, we were just talking in Indiana, and there was more like who's going to be the point guard, is Kelsey a one or a two? You know, what are you figuring out.

 Having a pair of capable ones to be able to run a lot of different actions is going to only be to Atlanta’s benefit. And then when you're able to cross that production with a lot of shooters, whether it's Courtney Williams at it from mid range or it's players like Stricklen and Shatori Walker-Kimbrough, who I share your affinity for her game as well, not to mention being able to get Elizabeth Williams set up under the bastion. Kalani Brown, who is extremely efficient, finishing around the rim. I think it gives you more of an opportunity for that offense to open up.

The issue that you have in Atlanta is simply will the direction be what they need it to be? You know, I ultimately saw over a period of several years that players would go to war for Nicki Collen – are they going to do that for Mike and Darius? If they do, I think there's some real upside there and they both certainly know what they're doing. But if they get off to a poor start, there are a lot of personalities in that locker room that could take things in a lot of different directions, I guess is the way I'll put it.

Lindsay: There are so many personalities in this locker room. There are so many. Where does Odyssey Sims fit into this? Because I’m confused.

Howard: Odyssey Sims is somebody who can come off the bench and score at will. Odyssey Sims is somebody who can defend twos. So, Odyssey Sims has some steals there as well. It just is very hard to see, unless you are playing small lineups, how there is playing time for everyone involved. You talked about Shatori as well – it’s the same thing, you know, well, is Shekinna Stricklen, who was a big free agent signing and very talented, is Shekinna Stricklen your primary three? Well, that blocks things off. Are you going to tag team Aari and Chennedy, or are you going to run them consecutively instead of concurrently? At that point, you have questions as to what other spots are available at the quote unquote one and two. All of these things are questions we need answered that we don't know yet, but again, you have multiple possible answers for all of these things. I think I've wrote in one preview or another in FiveThirtyEight, that it'll just be up to Elizabeth Williams to get all the rebounds. And I think that's fine. Elizabeth Williams flipped the Senate, so she can grab the rebounds. 

Lindsay: She can grab rebounds. Although I will say, I mean, Courtney Williams loves rebounding more than a lot of guards. I remember Jonquel Jones used to joke because she was trying to catch a rebounding record, like, smash the rebounding record in Connecticut. She said she had to yell at Courtney [laughs] for grabbing rebounds, like, “I’m trying to win a rebounding record!” Like, you don't need to come up under me!

Howard: I had the vertical leap of Courtney Williams, I'd want to rebound too.

Lindsay: Yeah. Anyways, I would say also they got to stretch fours, which is kind of something that they haven't had a lot of or as much of. I guess Billings kind of, but with Hawkins and Cheyenne Parker, I think those are two very interesting additions.

Howard: She would make an all star team this year, Cheyenne Parker. Cheyenne Parker is so talented, just gets better year after year after year. Taught herself how to shoot the three, just because she didn't have anything better to do in Poland. I mean, she was overseas and she just went for it. But Cheyenne Parker is…Here’s how I'll put it: Candace Parker is a big signing for the Chicago Sky, but the impact is going to be a little less than people think, only in the sense that she's in many ways replacing Cheyenne Parker in terms of what Chicago is getting. And Cheyenne Parker did a lot of those things already for the Chicago Sky, which is why they were a playoff team. 

Lindsay: I agree. And look, Tianna Hawkins is a key off the bench piece. I of course covered the Mystics, watched her a lot. If she is healthy this season, which she was not last season, and she has chronic knee issues, but she looks good from just Instagram, you know what I mean? Like, just from very preliminary, Instagram, looks very fit, you know? I'm very curious. What I'm saying is Atlanta has so many great pieces. I just don't know if they form a puzzle that makes any sense. [laughs]

Howard: There are 10 teams that feel like they've got clear playoff implications on the roster.  And Atlanta is one of those 10 teams. 

Lindsay: Yeah. I mean, I just look at this place and look at this team and it's like, that's a big name. That's a big name. That's a big name. They're capable, they're capable, they're capable. And I will say one thing about Shatori, last thing is she can play one through three, and so she is a great piece to have on a team when you're dealing with injuries because she can plug in anywhere and teams need that piece, right? Every team needs a bench player that can play multiple pieces when you're dealing with injuries throughout the year, you know, which happens.

Howard: Anyone who wants to should take a look at the synergy defensive numbers for Shatori Walker-Kimbrough, because she's known as a three point shooter but her defensive value is under appreciated, in my opinion.

Lindsay: She's very good at getting steals and annoying the crap out of people on the floor. Okay. All right. Last non playoff team – and we're about at our time limit, but we're going to keep going! – the Dallas Wings in 2020 were 8 and 14. They had a bit of a surprising offseason when their head coach peaced out. Brian Agler. And now Vickie Johnson is their hire. First round picks, they had lots of those. The biggest names were Charli Collier and Awak Kuier from Finland. They said goodbye to Astou and Katie Lou, which…That rhymes. And then of course returning you've got a bunch of names – Kayla Thornton, Allisha Gray, Arike, Ty Harris, Isabelle Harrison, Moriah Jefferson. Satou will be back eventually from overseas. Bella…

Howard: Hey, don't sleep on Bella Alarie at all. 

Lindsay: Yeah. I mean, Belle Alarie, you know, you've got Gustafson who we don't know if she'll make the squad. I mean there's once again lots of names.

Howard: Don't forget Pancake. Pancake Gustafson, Megan Gustafson's dog. 

Lindsay: Thank you. They also drafted Dana Evans in the second round which a lot of people thought would be a first round caliber pick. So, talk about just lots of names. I mean, they almost make the playoffs this year, but this is once again, maybe an even younger team than it was last year. [laughs] What do you think we're going to see from Charli and Awak, first of all?

Howard: Awak is going to be the one that I feel less confident projecting, just not getting as much in the way of live looks. And so just frankly, I'm really curious to see. But Charli is somebody who comes in, and if anything, Charli's production was understated at Texas. Texas last year had a real scarcity of production at the guard position, and it became increasingly difficult for Charli, that you'd get the ball where she could do the most damage. Charli is somebody who is as driven as anybody, consistently got her game better. She's built like you want the season to start yesterday because she's six foot five, because she can shoot the ball from everywhere, because she's just in phenomenal shape. And so, I think we’re going to see some really good things from her right away.

But I do think also we have in Dallas a real glut at the four, five, and once Satou gets back…Bella Alarie, don't forget last year, a lot of people thought Alarie might be a four in this league, but Alarie was able to hold her own against some of the best centers in the WNBA as a rookie and Bella Alarie is extremely skilled. And so how that all comes together, you know, if Charli ends up being a stretch four next to Bella Alarie, that leaves you with very few spots for Satou when she comes back, and if Awak is able to play big minutes right away, you know, that's a glut, and it's a good problem to have, right? Vick talks about this all the time. You want too many good players, you know? So, that is a very positive thing. But that's something to figure out.

One, to my mind, underrated aspect to Dallas is: can Satou play the three long-term? Because if she can, you can get all kinds of mismatches, and I think that would make a huge difference for them. The downside to it is Satou needs to be significantly more efficient offensively than she was last year. And she knows that. I mean, and she's a rookie. There's all kinds of reasons for caveats to that. But again, it goes back to what I was saying to you before. Like, until I see it, I'm not seeing it. Until Allemand doesn’t cut down her turnovers, I'm not seeing it. And so I need to see it happen. 

Lindsay: That's fair. Dallas basically won eight games last season, had a chance to sneak into the playoffs because Arike willed them to it. [laughs] Just Arike was like, I'm going to keep scoring, you know? I mean, it's a little more complicated than that, but is it? 

Howard: It’s not, and again, that goes back to what is Arike? Arike is an irrepressible finisher at the root. Arike is somebody who has a sense of the moment, and there are not a lot of players like that. One of those elite levels skills. But listen, I'm speaking to this not from direct information, but Dallas has to show Arike that Dallas is on the right track because there's a history of players asking out of Dallas. And so, if Arike is losing again and she does not like to lose, it's fair to wonder how much longer Arike will want to stick around.

Lindsay: Yeah. And I mean, look, the common denominator for everyone leaving Dallas is still there, right? Greg Bibb. He's still in the background. I know he's liked by a lot of people, but he's also been very controversial at times. 

Howard: I will say, I mean, to defend Greg Bibb–

Lindsay: Yeah, please do.

Howard: It is two players. It's two players who have done so, and there has been conflict with those players elsewhere as well. I do think that, you know, you're also asking players who want to have a national profile to be comfortable in Dallas, which is not always the easiest thing to do. I would hesitate to just, like, say he's the common denominator at the end of the day.

Lindsay: I see what you're saying for sure. I also…He was involved in some of those things directly, pretty directly, like not peripherally. [laughs] More directly.

Howard: I'm not suggesting he's an observer off to the side. Yes.

Lindsay: Yeah. I would just say he’s more involved than some to the public than a lot of executives that we hear about. And so, while I'm excited about what they're building, I'm guessing when you say two teams don't really have playoff aspirations this year, is the Dallas Wings one of those?

Howard: No, I would not use the phrase playoff aspirations. I would use the phrase, "am I expecting them to make a playoff run?” I am not expecting them to make a playoff run, though there is a lot of talent there and they were, you know, they did last year.

Lindsay: You do not have playoff aspirations for them. [laughs]

Howard: That's fair. I have modest aspirations for the Dallas Wings. 

Lindsay: Okay. All right. Washington Mystics made it to the playoffs last year with their C team, went 9 and 13 in 2020, lost to the Mercury in a wild ending in the first round. Got head coach Mike Thibault still there. No draft picks to talk about because they didn't exist. They did say goodbye to a couple of significant players – Ariel Powers and Tianna Hawkins, and LaToya Sanders is no longer on the court. She is on the bench. She is an assistant coach and she is pregnant. We are so happy for LaToya Sanders.

Howard: Mazel tov.

Lindsay: Another big news from offseason: they signed Alysha Clark. That was a huge signing. And then she got injured overseas and is off suspended for now, for the season. So that's sad. They added in a few pieces – Shavonte Zellous, Theresa Plaisance, and Erica McCall. And of course our big name returning: both Natasha Cloud and Elena Delle Donne and Tina Charles, all of who missed the bubble season, are scheduled to be back, although Delle Donne had a surprise back surgery that we just heard about recently and won't be ready for the very beginning of the season. And that's concerning. Also, the other core of the Mystics, you know, got Ariel Atkins who is looking good, Kiara Leslie's back, Leilani Mitchell has returned. And then like we said, we're not sure what the roster is going to look like, but you do have Stella Johnson and Sug Sutton who were part of their bubble squad.

Howard: Don’t sleep on Stella Johnson!

Lindsay: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not sleeping anyone. But Emma Meesseman might come back after the Olympics. She's in Belgium right now. We don't know about Emma Meesseman. Whew. That’s a lot. Howard, Tina Charles – we finally get to see Tina Charles in DC! I try not to look into…I don't think preseason games matter, except when I look at Tina Charles, it's exciting to see that Tina Charles is doing things on the basketball court that seem very good. [laughs]

Howard: That she exists and is in the lead is a big deal. I think it's really funny, by the way, I just have to point out that we were planning to do all 12 teams in 45 minutes. Like, that was never going to happen.

Lindsay: I knew it wasn't going to be 45 minutes but I hoped it would be a little bit closer to 45 minutes than we're going to get, but anyways we're going to keep going.

Howard: Okay. Listen, I'm here. I'm always here for Lindsay Gibbs, as you know. So I'm here for it, you know? Period. Alright. First of all, the fact that Tina is back, second of all, the fact that Tina is bought in with Mike and has always loved Mike, you know, going back to her time in Connecticut. It's funny to kind of look back at that Connecticut experience where they fired Mike and they didn't talk to Tina, and Tina was like, well, I'm outta here. You know? That set the franchise back five years, you know what I mean? It's really just sort of an amazing thing. 

Lindsay: It’s certainly one of those doors closing WNBA moments for sure. [laughs]

Howard: I mean, it's really interesting to me. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. 

Lindsay: Sliding doors, that's what I meant. Sliding doors.

Howard: The Delle Donne thing is the biggest issue by far. And you mentioned the surprise back surgery. It’s like, on the list of surprises it’s like one of the least enjoyable surprises, I think. But the stenosis diagnosis is my bigger concern. And I wrote about this over at The IX–

Lindsay: What is stenosis? Tell us a little bit about that.

Howard: It is a narrowing of the spine and it is degenerative and there is no cure for it. It's a very big concern and I am just…Elena Delle Donne's entire life to me is Shakespearean in every conceivable way, on the court, off the court. The level of talent and the things she does, the things she has to face as a person, medically, you know, it is just one of these incredible dramatic things at the center of what we think is a revolution moment in women's sports. And so to see this happen and to know inherently how much harder it's going to be for her to simply have what would be a normal decline phase of one of the all-time great players – and if she retired tomorrow, which I'm not suggesting she would, but if she retired tomorrow is a hall of famer, is a women's basketball hall of famer is an easy Naismith basketball hall of famer. It is heartbreaking.

And so, Washington's title aspirations I feel like are very reliant on Elena Delle Donne being a somewhat approximation of what she usually is, though having Natasha Cloud back is a very big deal, and having Tina Charles as a front person for the offense is going to matter. There's a lot of talents here and I'm just never going to bet against Mike Thibault, who is one of the great basketball minds I've ever met. All of that said, this entire franchise’s last half decade has been built around Elena Delle Donne and for damn good reasons. And so, to the extent that Elena is compromised, the franchise’s ceiling is compromised as well. And that's very sad for basketball. It's very sad for people with eyes. But it's especially difficult when you're thinking through things as the Washington Mystics.

Lindsay: Yeah. The Mystics have to have depth because of the injury issues with Delle Donne, like, even more so than every other team. You know Delle Donne is not going to be able to play every single game. She's going to need rest games more than your other players. That's just the reality. And saying that, I thought like losing Tianna and losing LaToya from the depth chart, right? And then of course not having Emma this first half of the season, like, they were stacked in the front court and now they're slightly less stacked. You know? These aren’t Elena Delle Donne caliber players, but they’re depth that allow you to still win regular season games without her, right? Which is what you need to position yourself for the playoffs, you know? And keep her rested. However, I will say, Myisha Hines-Allen is going to be late returning because she's in France, but she was second team all WNBA last year, and I think can still be that–

Howard: Big deal. It’s a big deal to have her late.

Lindsay: I mean, Elena and Tina and Myisha, with players who can play the three, you know, the way that Atkins can, the way that Kiara Leslie can on defense. Having a Theresa Plaisance – who lost 40 pounds in the off season! [laughs] And just looks like a complete, like, the game is completely new to her. Erica McCall, like, these bench players who you don't think much of when you're saying can this team win a championship, right? But when I'm talking surviving Elena Delle Donne's injuries, surviving until Emma Meesseman can come back, you know, when we're talking like getting through, if you can get to the playoffs, have a semi-healthy Elena Delle Donne, have a healthy Myisha, Tina and Emma – you’re still going to be a championship team.

Howard: It reminds me very much of Diana Taurasi’s issues with her back, and the question of could Diana get to Diana level by the playoffs? And ended it's a dangerous game to play. I think it's really hard because there's so much talent in this league that to say, well, if we could get to the playoffs and have that player ready, we can run through the playoffs and be what we need to be and reach that peak level without having done it during the regular season. Now, that said, that's just what Seattle did last year with what were seemingly comparatively minor injuries to Breanna Stewart and Sue Bird, and got them healthy and didn't rush in the regular season, and then you got to the playoffs and we saw with the Seattle Storm were able to do. And so, you know, maybe that's the case. Certainly if you're going to do for anybody, that’s who you do it for – Diana Taurasi and Elena Delle Donne, that's for sure. 

Lindsay: Yeah. I'm excited to see Natasha Cloud and Leilani Mitchell together. All right. Chicago Sky: last year went 12 and 10, sixth in the league, and then they lost to the Connecticut Sun in the first round. You know, a lot of big additions in the offseason, including, you know, Brittany Boyd-Jones, Lexie Brown. Am I forgetting anyone? 

Howard: Wasn't there a big somebody…I feel like I saw her on TV somewhere…

Lindsay: Yes! Candace Parker is in Chicago now. We're not going talking about the Gabby Williams drama because I think we have another full year to talk about the Gabby Williams drama, because she's not gonna play at all this season and we're going to see her back in LA next year. She's been traded to LA, she's gone. You've got as Azurá Stevens back Kahleah Copper. Diamond DeShields as far as we know is healthy, as opposed to last season where we never really figured out what was going on, nobody really told us.

Howard: Well, you know, Diamond's talked about it. She talked about being a little bit burned out when I asked her about it. She is, to her way of telling it, “excited every time [she] steps on the basketball court,” is she put it. That’s music to my…As somebody who has covered her dating back to college years, it’s just better for the basketball world when Diamond DeShields has an opportunity to play basketball and love doing it.

Lindsay: Totally. You got Stef Dolson, Ruthy Hebard's back, and then Vandersloot of course – the wives are back in action, Allie Quigley and Courtney Vandersloot. Big first round draft pick, Shyla Heal, who I think is in camp and going to be kind of Allie Quigley's understudy. Is that kind of where we’re thinking with Shyla? 

Howard: I think more Vandersloot’s understudy, more of a one.

Lindsay: Yeah, that's what I meant. That’s what I meant. 

Howard: But yeah, she's not that big, but somehow the daughter of Shane Heal, who I remember watching plays, now in the WNBA.

Lindsay: We are all old. 

Howard: I have made my peace with it.

Lindsay: And then Natasha Mack. All right. Once again we could get into the nitty gritty. There's a lot of talent here, but it seems like a dumb question, but what's the significance of Candace Parker being on this team and where does she take their ceiling? Chicago's a team that has made it to the playoffs, been a team with, you know, players like DeShields and Courtney and Allie who, you know, teams always say, oh, you're looking out for them but this iteration of them, they haven't taken that next step. Is the addition of Candace Parker enough for them to take a next step and truly be a championship team?

Howard: My short answer is I don't think this is complicated. I think the answer is yes. I mean, if you're the Chicago Sky and you want to resonate in that market and you bring in an icon who grew up, you know, minutes from the city of Chicago, and if you're James Wade and you're looking to build a roster, your offense is excellent. You needed to improve defensively, ideally in the front court, ideally with somebody who was versatile and was able to block shots and be able to guard threes, fours, and fives. You would go get somebody like Candace Parker. She just happens to be both of those things in a  single package, and somebody with championship pedigree. I mean, it's the perfect fit. It is the perfect fit. And so for James Wade, who's has put together a really good team already, to be able to add Candace Parker and sell her on it…Part of that is going to come down to what Wade has done, and part of that has to come down to, like, nobody understands the way the puzzle pieces fit together more than Candace Parker. And so, she sees it. She knows what she is and can be. So for her to come to Chicago, it puts them in a position to win a title together. It's just perfect. My shortlist of teams that I expect to contend for the championship absolutely include Chicago.

Lindsay: I agree. I think we've all said they need a superstar, right? Like, they almost there. They’re like, they have all stars, but they didn't have a superstar. It was like, is DeShields going to make that leap? Who I love! I'm not insulting DeShields, right?

Howard: By the way, if DeShields does it, just imagine how dangerous they are. But now she doesn't even have to be the DeShields that we think she can be. She doesn't have to be for them to win a championship now.

Lindsay: Or now she has room to be that because they have a Candace Parker, right? Like, sometimes you need that superstar to give you a little space. 

Howard: Yeah. Like Jewell Lloyd.

Lindsay: I mean to become, and I mean, Natasha Howard, even if we're going back to that. You need that. All right, I think that's good. We’re just going to go on now to the former team of Candace Parker, the Los Angeles Sparks. Once again, it feels like a sliding doors moment here in the WNBA. These two! Last season they were 15 and 7, third in the regular season, at one point had a chance to win the number one seed and then collapsed down the stretch, were crushed by Connecticut in their only playoff game. And once again, a Derek Fisher-led team kind of mopes away from the WNBA season. They lost Candace Parker, was of course the big name they lost. TRP’s not back. Riquna Williams isn't back.

They've added Erica Wheeler, Bria Holmes, Amanda Zahui B, Nia Coffey. Once again, the roster's not set, so we're not sure. Kristi Toliver and Chiney Ogwumike are both back after taking last season off, along with Nneka Ogwumike’s there. It seems like Seimone Augustus, Brittney Sykes, Te’a Cooper, Sydney Wiese; Maria Vadeeva will be back after the Olympics. They've got Jasmine Walker as their main rookie, Arella Guirantes is still there too. Once again, not sure about the final roster, but what do you see from this? Because I have no clue. 

Howard: Well, I mean, you sort of brushed on it in passing, but to me Chiney Ogwumike and Kristi Toliver is major additions. No small thing. 

Lindsay: They are, don’t get me wrong.

Howard: You were talking about, you know, Chiney was the number one overall pick. Chiney has been an all star when she's been able to play regularly, and Kristi Toliver I know you saw firsthand quite a bit. Kristi Toliver took the Mystics from a team that was very good and helped bring them to a championship.

Lindsay: She’s another one of those players that has a sense of the moment, right? Thibault always knew that. I remember when the Mystics were winning and Toliver was out the last month of the 2019 season, right before the playoffs, and they were still winning, and a lot of media were kind of like, are you that worried that Toliver doesn't come back? Do you know what I mean? And Thibault always said, you know, Thibault never stopped saying we need her back for the playoffs. She knows in these big moments what to do more than others do.

Howard: Yes. Correct. And she'll be next to Erica Wheeler, which can take Erica Wheeler's game to another level. There was a fantastic feature about Erica Wheeler in The Ringer some time ago, and ever since I've read that, no, I mean, listen, no, her as a Rutgers alum and she's doing what she did administrator players do, which has come to the lead and outperform their expectations, which has didn't happen, I believe, with the 22nd overall pick in the draft, Arella Guirantes, who should not have slept, and the Sparks were able to steal later on in that draft. But there's a lot of talent here that needs to be put together in a certain way, and Candace and Nneka always found a way to coexist, but they weren't necessarily a logical couple to coexist basketball-wise, in terms of where they wanted to be on the floor, in terms of where they want to get to the ball. I have a lot more confidence that Nneka and Chiney can figure out spacing, where to be together–

Lindsay: [laughs] You’d think they might know how to communicate.

Howard: I think there's a relationship there that they might be able to build on. And so you combine that with add in Toliver and add in Wheeler, and again, you know, I just think Guirantes is gonna come in and, you know, I know we're not talking about the Gabby Williams trade–

Lindsay: Well, she's not playing this season.

Howard: But what was the trade? The trade was LA drafted essentially a shooting guard, a 10, and then they get a 22, right? And so part of the, well, can Guirantes make an impact, was would there be space for her? Guirantes shows up at camp and two days later they traded their tenth overall pick for somebody who's not coming until 2022 to open up, you would think, room for Arella Guirantes. They certainly should. We’ll see what the final roster looks like, but there's reasonably that if Guirantes can do the things that Derek Fisher wanted to TRP to do, and TRP really wasn't enough of a skilled offensive player to do it, and Guirantes is.

Lindsay: Yeah, no, I completely agree. I'm excited. I wrote about it during the playoffs two years ago, when I was writing about the Mystics for The Athletic, about how Kristi Toliver and Natasha Cloud had kind of become this two headed point guard monster, and how they had kind of learned to coexist, like, you know, a lot of teams don't have one point guard, right? And the Mystics had two basically, and ended up, you know, they were able to coexist really well together.

Howard: I mean, but did they? Like, Natasha Cloud was their point guard. I know, I feel like we've had this argument, right? 

Lindsay: I agree, she was! 

Howard: Kristi Toliver is like a playmaking two.

Lindsay: This is what I'm saying. 

Howard: And Natasha Cloud is a one. 

Lindsay: But for a while they called Kristi Toliver the point guard. [laughs] Which might be Kristi Toliver. But anyways, here's what I'm saying, all right? This is not an argument about whether…It’s more about philosophy, right? Because, trust me, I was the lead on the ball. I was the number one voice that was saying everyone media, stop calling Kristi Toliver the point guard! Natasha is the one. 

Howard: Lindsay used to heckle people on press row about that. It's true. 

Lindsay: I was very annoying. But anyways, I think that Wheeler will hopefully not feel as pressured to need to shoot as much as she did in D, which is going to help a lot. And Kristi can do that, and I'm excited to see them co-exist together. And yeah, I think that's kind of all my thoughts on the Sparks. I don't think that they're going to be a championship contender this year, mainly because I don't trust Derek Fisher. 

Howard: I think they are very much a playoff team. They're in my 10. They certainly are. I think people who think it's going to be some sort of big rebuilding year I think are underselling the sheer caliber of talent there. It could go wrong, don't get me wrong. 

Lindsay: Yeah. I just don't trust Derek Fisher still until he proves me otherwise. I don't trust Derek for sure, and I think the way his teams have played in the latter half of seasons is a problem, and that doesn't look good on the coach. He’s free to prove me wrong. But I'm excited to see Kristi Toliver back on the court. I'm excited to see Zahui B in a Sparks jersey. I think that just going to be fun and gonna bring a big spark off the bench, and there's a lot of depth here. The Phoenix Mercury 13 and 9 last season, fifth in the regular seasons. It's kind of where they've been for a while. They lost by one point to the Lynx in the second round of playoffs. You know, Sandy Brondello is back as coach, of course.

They didn't have a lot of goodbyes in the offseason. Nia Coffey and Shatori who were both just there for kind of one season. They didn't really have any big draft picks. They got Cierra Johnson in the third round from A&M. And don't really have any roster slots open, necessarily. They added in a trade this year Megan Walker and Kia Nurse from the Liberty, and of course returning they have – deep breath – Diana Taurasi, Brittney Griner, Skylar Diggins-Smith, Kia Vaughn, Shey Peddy, Alanna Smith, Brianna Turner, and Sophie Cunningham – and Bria Hartley seems to actually be recovering really well from an ACL tear. I didn't know if we'd see her at all this year, but all signs are we will see her, maybe even before the Olympics.

Howard: I sure hope so.

Lindsay: Is this finally going to be Brittney Griner’s MVP season? We say this every year, right? Every year we're waiting for Griner’s MVP season. We’re waiting for this Mercury team with this talent to take a jump. 

Howard: I’ve got two parts to that. One is it's possible. She certainly seemed energized, recharged and ready to make a difference. Part of what you're seeing is just that the league has been shifting, so Griner is less an answer to the big questions posed by the other top teams and more a real zigging when other teams are zagging and moving away from your conventional standardized five, of which she is to an extent that, but also just a very souped up version and somebody who has played, even while we are sort of sitting here looking for another level from her, is already playing at a level that is a hall of fame caliber performance. It's worth remembering that what Brittney Griner has provided so far is that before you get into, well, is there another level to reach?

Now, look, she's going to be there with Skylar Diggins-Smith and Diana Taurasi, and if both of them are healthy they now have a year or two together to figure out who gets the ball away. You talked about that loss…I mean, that's the image that keeps sticking with me, is that final moment – Diana Taurasi didn't even touch the ball, and Skylar Diggins-Smith did. That's kind of the issue writ large, right? Who is going to get the ball? How often? How were you going about making sure that you get Brittney Griner as involved as she ought to be given her skills, and making that balance work is a great unknown.

But sure, the potential is enormous there when you look at the big three and you have to say that Jim Pitman's decision not to tear down and his decision to say we're going to ride Diana Taurasi’s career for as long as she cares to play, I feel great about that just from a basketball perspective, because now we just get to sort of max out knowing what Diana Taurasi's career could look like. But it certainly means there's a lot of unknowns coming into this year. I'm fascinated to see it. 

Lindsay: So, I'm excited to see Brianna Turner. She made a big jump, especially after BG left last year. Let's be honest. You know, I just want to see how all these pieces fit together, and I think besides the obvious of how are Diana and Skylar gonna fit together, is where is Kia Nurse? Are we going to see a rebirth of Kia Nurse here? Because let's just face it, not a good season last year for the Liberty. 

Howard: Well, and she'd be the first to tell you that. She’s very honest about it. But you know, the shooting, the combination of that and an ankle that clearly was bothering her led to a very un-Kia-Nurse-style season, but a big deal to have her at the three, and I have always believed dating back to her time at UConn, that she's kind of the prototype three. She's big and tough and she's strong and she can defend extraordinarily well. You know, obviously she’s got the flexibility to play just about anywhere. I mean, Katie Smith used to play her some at the one and she more than held her own there. But if Kia Nurse is the three point shooter she usually is, and last year was a one-off blip, which I certainly, you know…22 games in a bubble environment with a bum ankle is not really–

Lindsay: And a team that only won two games. So, not an experienced team around you, you know? 

Howard: Yeah. I think that was a huge pickup for them. And, you know, potentially…Phoenix has been so top heavy for so long that if they're not getting these elite performances out of their best players, that makes it harder for them to excel against the rosters that we've talked about that are kind of top to bottom what you want, but when you've got players like Kia Nurse and you got Brianna Turner as an elite defender, it's such a big deal that if Brittney Griner gets two early fouls, that people aren't just able to get to the lane and finish at will against Phoenix anymore, that is not a small thing. 

Lindsay: And you know, like if Bria Hartley can come back strong...She was great. So now we're talking like eight really elite players for a Phoenix team that has struggled to have four, you know? They've had three, but have they even had four? Alright. The Lynx, last year, 14 and 8, fourth in the regular season, swept by the Storm in the semifinals, which is really nothing to hang your head about, but I know not satisfying for head coach, Cheryl Reeve. They lost just a couple of pieces: Lexie Brown, Mikiah Herbert Harrigan, Erica McCal. Added huge names: Ariel Powers, Natalie Achonwa, Kayla McBride, as well as Rennia Davis from the draft.

And then you got your returners: Napheesa Collier, Sylvia Fowles, Damiris Dantas is back, Crystal Dangerfield, and then Rachel Banham, and Jessica Shepard has returned from injury. So, that's exciting. Howard, what do you think about this offseason that Cheryl Reeve had? And I'm especially curious to see what you think the ceilings are for Powers and McBride in this offense.

Howard: I just think it was an amazing offseason for them, not just because of the players in and of themselves and the talent that they bring, but the way in which they fit to what Minnesota needed, when you thought coming into this offseason in the same way we were talking about Chicago and bringing in Candace Parker, how she makes perfect sense. Well, if I were looking at Minnesota coming into the offseason and saying, you know, what do you need first and foremost? And I think you just needed that potential fellow one or a number two scorer who could play shooting guard and be efficient and defend at the other end. And that's just exactly what Kayla McBride is. You know, you have now the ability to have multiple different looks at the three with Ariel Powers, who can also play the two, by the way.

Also, Bridget Carleton, who is criminally underrated. Bridget Carleton can do everything and they're able to return her, but pair her with Ariel Powers. So there are going to be some lineups now where Carleton's going to make more sense and there are gonna be some where Powers makes more sense. But either way, you've got a real opportunity to build on the gains of last year. You have now Sylvia Fowles, who is to my mind the best five in the history of the league, but if Sylvia Fowles needs more rest and you want to get her fresher for the playoffs, Natalie Achonwa can step in and do different things and give you different looks. Natalie Achonwa can also spell Damiris Dantas as a stretch four, you know? There’s just a lot of different things you can do with this roster.

And then just having Rachel Banham healthy and comfortable and shooting in her home state, it's just, you know…Rachel Banham is somebody who is going to get 25 points in a WNBA game at some point this year, and she's going to come off and she’s gonna win a game for them off the bench. So just top to bottom, a roster that I think very highly of, and I sure hope Jess Shepard gets the opportunity, because she's been through so much and is so built like a modern WNBA player – six foot four, but capable of stepping out beyond the arc, and a plus rebounder and just somebody who would have been in the rotation if not for her injuries, and hopefully is able to get those opportunities this year as well.

Lindsay: I agree. I love every single thing about Minnesota this year and I can't wait to see how it gels. The Connecticut Sun last year during the regular season, they were 10 and 12 seventh! But they made it to the semifinals where they pushed the Las Vegas Aces to five. They did not have a lot of changes during the offseason. Curt Miller is still in charge. The four people on the roster who aren't back – Bria Holmes, Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis, Theresa Plaisance, Essence Carson. But really, they didn't make any big additions. It's just kind of about, you know, who's returning.

So they've got Bri Jones, Jasmine Thomas, Alyssa Thomas, DeWanna Bonner, Jonquel Jones is back after a season off; Briann January should still be there. You got Kaila Charles and Beatrice Mompremier, Natisha Hiedeman. We’re not sure what's gonna happen at the end of this roster, but it's a lot of the same team, just adding Jonquel Jones, which is a huge missing piece. [laughs]

Howard: Right? I mean, I would say two things. You know, the injury to Alyssa Thomas is a big deal. 

Lindsay: Yeah. I completely forgot. I knew I was going to forget something big in this. Alyssa. Thomas is out for the season. You are right. Whew. I made it to number three without missing anything big, I think.

Howard: Here's what I'll say. Alyssa Thomas was missing both of her shoulders and was still playing. So, for you to think that just because she's injured, she was still going to play is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Lindsay: [laughs] I don't even look and see if she's not going to play, because she just plays no matter what. AT is a huge…They’re going to miss that.

Howard: But it's a different team, right? So in 2019, the team we watched come with a game of winning it all had them both. And then last year they were still a playoff team that made a run only with Alyssa Thomas. And now this year it’s only JJ. 

Lindsay: Not only! DeWanna Bonner, I feel like–

Howard: No, no, no, no. I'm saying among that pairing.

Lindsay: Okay, okay. Yeah.

Howard: No, no, no. I'm saying it as sort of, you know, they had dual featured stars, and so then what is DeWanna Bonner in that scenario? DeWanna Bonner is extremely dangerous and potentially can do even more damage with a floor that is more stretched by what Jonquel Jones brings and where she stores on the floor than AT, and I suspect that you’re going to have more open looks for DeWanna Bonner in the same way than when Shekinna Stricklen was in Connecticut, she saw more open looks than when she first made her move to Atlanta. You know, Briann January is a very important cog to this team as well. When you look back at why they, after a slow start, they were 0 and 5 to start last year – they made that run to the playoffs. I don't think it was just because so many people were giving them #disrespeCT. [Lindsay laughs]

I also think it was because Briann January started making shots on a regular basis. And so this team, top to bottom – are you going to play a lineup where you've got Jonquel Jones next to Bri Jones, who is, you know, this old school five, but somebody who's hyper efficient around the rim and always has been? Curt Miller's got a lot of options. And I would just say one other thing: I've talked to Curt about this periodically, this is the most Curt Miller philosophy team that he's had. Here's what I mean by that. Curt Miller is a big believer in at the rim and beyond the arc.

Curt Miller knows what he has. And so when he had Courtney Williams, the best mid range shooter in the league since Cappie Pondexter, Curt Miller let Courtney Williams be Courtney Williams and he built around her and was very smart about that. And then Alyssa Thomas with her circus, you know, no shoulder shots that kept going in, he let Alyssa Thomas be Alyssa Thomas. But his team now is very much built like a Curt Miller philosophy, and I'm sure Curt Miller wouldn't tell you that he'd prefer Alyssa Thomas isn’t playing. He'd rather have Alyssa Thomas, but it also means the personnel and the philosophy match to an extent that I'm curious as hell to see what that looks like, because again, Curt Miller knows what he's doing. 

Lindsay: Yeah. And I have to say, there are few things I…I’m excited to see Candace Parker, obviously in Chicago, and make that debut and see her with that team. And probably number two for things I'm the most excited about, maybe tied with Tina Charles, but is getting to see DeWanna Bonner and Jonquel Jones together on a court. I mean, I feel like if they outstretch both of their arms, like, they have the entire court covered. [laughs] There’s just so much length there. I cannot wait.

Howard: That’s fair. It’s high on my list.

Lindsay: The Aces, 18 and 4 last year, swept by the Storm in the finals. But man, they have some decent pieces back this year. You’ve got coach Bill Laimbeer back. You've lost McBride and Lindsey Allen, but you've added Chelsea Gray, Riquna Williams. Returning is Elizabeth Cambage, Kelsey Plum I think is healthy, and Ji Su park is back. A’ja Wilson, Dearica Hamby, Jackie Young – three keys to that team back. And of course the biggest question mark we have now, which by Thursday we'll likely know more about, is Angel McCoughtry, who looked  to have badly injured herself during a preseason game. So, I think we're gonna kind of talk about this as if McCoughtry is not there. But even if she's not, I think that you're got a better team than he did last year. 

Howard: Interesting, interesting, bold statement.

Lindsay: Really? You think that's bold?

Howard: I do think it's bold. I don't agree.

Lindsay: Okay, here's our math – here’s my math. 

Howard: Bring it, and then I'll tell you my math. But good, okay.

Lindsay: You subtract Kayla McBride and Angel McCoughtry and Lindsay Allen, and you add Elizabeth Cambage and Kelsey Plum and Chelsea Gray.

Howard: Right. I see the math. [Lindsay laughs] By the way, also minus Danielle Robinson from last year, who was very–

Lindsay: Right. Danielle Robinson. That doesn't change my math, I'm sorry.

Howard: No, no, no. I get that. Here's the deal, and I'll start with the brief caveat: Chelsea Gray's an elite player. I can't wait to see what she does, without a question. Liz Cambage is a game changer in and of herself, and the fact that she's back is very exciting. Less is more sometimes, and I'll give you a couple of reasons why I say so. A’ja Wilson was the MVP last year. Now, why was A’ja Wilson the MVP last year? Because, unlike 2019, A’ja Wilson had room to operate in year three. A’ja Wilson and Liz Cambage have to coexist together, and how that works off the court, how that works when the two of them…And this goes back to what we talked about in LA, operate in a lot of the same spots, and there's only one ball, is concerning.

You know, Bill Laimbeer talked a little bit when we spoke to him about it after Liz was re-signed, you know, “Well, we're going to try things like a high low, and…" We're coming to this now. It seems a little late to come to it. And Bill Laimbeer has won many more WNBA titles than I have, so far be it for me to say he's not going to figure it out. Bill Laimbeer always figures it out, but it's concerning. And then you add in the fact that the losses we're talking about, if Angel is out…Angel McCoughtry had her most efficient season of her career last year. Angel McCoughtry, my heart aches over the idea that Angel McCoughtry is gonna miss part–

Lindsay: Oh, I'm devastated. Yeah. 

Howard: If you go by, you know, let's say win shares for 40, Angel McCoughtry is actually the best player on the Aces last year, and Kayla McBride being efficient, doing what you ask her to do, was it given, and now she's not there to do that. And you didn't ask more of Jackie Young, and you have to hope that you get as much out of Kelsey Plum post-injury as you did pre-injury. Kelsey Plum is somebody who I love and think the world of, but Kelsey Plum is also going to be off the ball. It's Chelsea Gray's team to run in some fundamental ways. So Kelsey Plum is very good off the ball, which is why Vicky Johnson years ago should have played her next to Moriah Jefferson, but that's a slight tangent. The bottom line is, I don't know that that math adds up. They were 18 and 4 last year. They got a lot of other questions to answer. I know–

Lindsay: I know that the conventional wisdom is to be concerned about Cambage and A'ja Wilson in the same spot and whether they can work together. I will just say, Nneka and Candace won a WNBA championship together on the front court. I know it wasn't perfect, but it worked. And I think that it was great that A'ja had the year without Cambage to grow. I think that was crucial, crucial, but that just gives me more confidence that they're going to figure out a way, you know, that she knows more who she is. I'm just not worried about Cambage and Wilson. I'm not, I know everyone else is. I'm not.

Howard: A'ja Wilson, her senior year…I was having a conversation with Sawn Staley at South Carolina, and Dawn Staley goes, “I need to turn her into Candace Parker.” And why did she say that? Because she wanted to maximize A'ja Wilson’s career. Makes a lot of sense. A'ja Wilson is drifting out beyond the three-point line, Bill Laimbeer gets upset about it. I don't want that to happen. Candace Parker was allowed to be Candace Parker, and Nneka was stretched by Brian Agler who is somebody who knows a thing or two about winning, whether it's in LA, whether he did it years ago in the ABL, right? Okay. [laughs] Bill Laimbeer is not somebody who was embracing the stretch picks in that same way.

And so, I don't know. I don't know! I mean, who's the three who provides nearly as much production as Angel McCoughtry did, if Angel is not playing this season, if she's not able to do it? Is Kelsey Plum able to be, coming off of this injury, every bit of the player that Kayla McBride is? No knock on Kayla. Kayla McBride is a star in this league, playing a secondary role. I am not telling you I think they are doomed. I'm telling you that when you tell me they're a better team than the team of what 18 and 4 last year, I don't know. I don't know. They're on my shortlist as a championship contender, but I don't know.

Lindsay: I hope that we get Angel McCoughtry back, post-Olympic break at least, and that this isn't a season ending injury, you know? If that happens, I think that they're for sure a better team overall, because I think Hamby can have a bigger role. I think Jackie Young can have a bigger role, and I think you're going to be okay.

Howard: And maybe Hamby's the three. 

Lindsay: And I also really like what we've seen from – I don't know if she's gonna make the roster – but I love what we've seen from Destiny Slocum so far, early. [laughs] I loved Destiny Slocum, and I think this is gonna be the perfect team for her.

Howard: We could do a whole show on Destiny Slocum.

Lindsay: Alright, we're we're so over time, but I really don't think there's that much to discuss with the final team , honestly, as good as they are. [laughs] The Seattle Storm. Dan Hughes, love to see him back. Their goodbyes retired: Morgan Tuck and Crystal Langhorne. Sami Whitcomb, as we mentioned, is with the Liberty now, as this Natasha Howard. But they've added Candice Dupree and Mikiah Herbert Harrigan, and Katie Lou Samuelson, and their picks were Aaliyah Wilson and Kianna Williams. We're going to see, like I said, what the roster brings. Ezi Magbegor is back and looking good. And then of course you've got Sue Bird, Stewie, Jordin Canada, Jewell Lloyd, Mercedes Russell, and Epiphanny Prince I think signed. Where does your math go this year with this team this year? Better to worse, like plus or minus? Is this still the overwhelming favorite going into the season?

Howard: It is a slightly less overwhelming favorite than they would have been if they'd held on to Howard and Alysha Clark – we’re assuming that sliding doors scenario… Alysha Clark  is a really big deal. Alysha Clark was one of the five best players in the league last year.

Lindsay: No, I agree with that. Yeah. 

Howard: But do I think they're the favorite? Probably. I think things flattened a little bit, but Dan Hughes is another brilliant basketball mind, number one. Number two, Breanna Stewart is the best player in the world. She's the best player in the world. And it's just, it's absurd to the extent to which she is the best player in the world, at this point, even among elite talent, just the combination of her ability to win at every level, her ability…She has that combination of the skillset nobody else has and the sense of the moment – and her moment comes in the second quarter, which is why she's actually somehow underrated despite all of it, because Breanna Stewart will step on your neck in the second quarter and her team will win by 30 and then, you know, people lose the idea that, you know, “well, she didn't hit a big shot late in the fourth,” because she’s...You're already dead. You know? It's just how she operates.

I've never seen anything like it. I will never stop enjoying the dominance that is Breanna Stewart, just from a sporting perspective. And I don't think I'll cover a more dominant player in any sport, as long as I live. [laughs] I don't really know how else to put it. And so you add that to the fact that Sue Bird is not bad. She's had a pretty decent career as, you know, the prototypical point guard in this league, now and probably forever.

Lindsay: And is healthy, knock on wood, you know? 

Howard: Yes, all of that. And if I argue with it – too much talent last year, I mean, to have Magbegor be able to play key minutes that Natasha Howard played last year–

Lindsay: That's why I’m not worried about Natasha Howard leaving.

Howard: I agree. I agree. And Dupree will be fine in an Alysha Clark-ish role as well.

Lindsay: And Herbert Harrigan had some good defense for the Lynx last year. I don't think…I’m just saying, I liked her on defense for the Lynx last year, and I think she can bring some of that defensive presence off the bench. 

Howard: She's really smart. She's one of those brainy Dawn Staley-type players, you know, so Seattle is…And we haven't been talking about Jewell Lloyd. Jewell Lloyd, who would be a star among stars in most other places, and eventually I believe…Fearless prediction: Jewell Lloyd will eventually have an MVP level season. But yeah, I think there are some teams that will absolutely challenge for the championship, but if you said to me, hey, you gotta choose one, to me it's still Seattle.  

Lindsay: I agree. I think that it's still Seattle, but I think there are a lot of other teams that got better during the offseason, and very few that got worse. You know, there are definitely a couple, but…

Howard: You think there are teams who worse this off season? I think there are teams that didn't get as better. Who do you think got worse this offseason?

Lindsay: Well, I guess if going by their 2020 rosters – or who played in 2020, not who opted out – but I think the Sparks.

Howard: I guess that's reasonable. I don't think they got as worse as people think.

Lindsay: I can see that. And then, I mean, when you think about them adding in Toliver and Chiney who were there, but not there, you know? But I do think that they are worse.

Howard: Losing Chelsea Gray is not a small thing. No.

Lindsay: No, no, a very, very big thing. Also, I don't think I mentioned that they lost her in our roundup. But they did. So yeah, all right, Howard, it's the 25th season of the WNBA. I want you to just finish this by giving us one takeaway. This is the big question. One takeaway from the first 25 years in this league, one thing that’s maybe made the most impact on you in how this league has evolved.

Howard: That's a great question. It is an implicit rebuke to every mouth breather who likes to pretend that women's sports is transient and cannot last. I think it is many things, many things. But if it were only that, that alone has value. I think that has mattered for other women's sports leagues to understand that such a thing is not just possible, but is the new paradigm. I think it matters in an implicit answer to the naysayers who have claimed over and over again, the W was going to go somewhere. It is not. We are 25 years into something that is very much established, continues to grow, and I cannot even conceive of how exciting the next 25 years is going to be as a result of that.

Lindsay: That's a perfect place to end. Go to The Next, thenext.substack.com; theix.substack.com – not the numeral letter, the Roman numerals, like Title IX. Support Howard and all the great work he does. And I'll be honest, you know, we doubled the time I thought this would take, and that's not bad for us. [laughs]

Howard: I think this was brevity for us. I absolutely do. The entire league! That’s all 12 teams. I feel very accomplished by how streamlined this was.

Lindsay: Well, I feel more ready for the season now, so, that's got to help. That's for something, you know? I put you all through all this just to make myself sit down and study this. Maybe? Maybe.

Howard: I am happier on a day I talk to you, Lindsay Gibbs, I–

Lindsay: Alright Howard, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you all for listening. And do I cut Howard off every time he starts being complimentary? Yes. [laughs] Thank you, flamethrowers, for listening, and the tip off is on Friday.