Interview: Jackie Powell, Women's Basketball Writer, on the WNBA Draft
In this episode Lindsay Gibbs talks with Jackie Powell, writer for The Next and Bleacher Report on women's basketball. They discuss in-depth the picks and presentation of the 2022 WNBA Draft.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Lindsay: Hello, hello, hello, flamethrowers. Welcome back to Burn It All Down. I'm Lindsay Gibbs, and I'm so excited to be joined by Jackie Powell of Bleacher Report and The Next. Jackie, hi!
Jackie: Hello Lindsay. Thank you so much for having me on. It's great to be reunited here on Zoom post our Minneapolis adventure.
Lindsay: Yeah. So, Jackie and I were in Minneapolis, and if you've listened to the episode we released on Tuesday, you know I have COVID. Jackie also has COVID. So, Jackie was supposed to be at the draft in person, but what a consolation prize we have for her here today, [laughs] to sit and talk about everything that went down at the WNBA draft. The draft was on Monday night, we're recording this Tuesday afternoon. So, I'm going to read through our first round. For the first pick, the Dream took Rhyne Howard from Kentucky. Number two, the Fever took NaLyssa Smith from Baylor. For three, the Mystics: Shakira Austin from Ole Miss. Fourth pick, again the Fever, Emily Engstler from Louisville. At number five, the Liberty took Nyara Sabally from Oregon. Number six, Lexie Hull from Stanford, just like everyone predicted. At number seven, Veronica Burton from Northwestern went to the Dallas Wings.
Number eight, Mya Hollingshed from Colorado went to the Aces. Number nine to the Sparks, Rae Burrell from Tennessee. Number ten, the Fever again, Queen Egbo from Baylor. Eleven, Kierstan Bell to the Aces – she’s from Florida, Gulf Coast. And twelve, to the Connecticut Sun, Nia Clouden from Michigan State. Jackie, let's talk about these first three picks. Rhyne Howard to the Dream, NaLyssa Smith to the Fever, Shakira Austin to the Mystics. Did those pretty much go according to plan for you? Any surprises there?
Jackie: There weren't any surprises. I think these first three picks made a lot of sense, and I would say the first five picks made a lot of sense. And then it was after that when things got a little nutty.
Lindsay: Yeah. I want to just…Rhyne Howard, for those who haven't followed her career, what is she going to bring to the Dream? And #1 overall pick, that's a big deal. You know, Kentucky didn't go far in the NCAA tournament this year. Think a lot of people maybe who don't follow college basketball as closely aren't as familiar with her.
Jackie: So, Rhyne's a very unassuming talent. I don't say that as not a compliment. I think it very much so is. Her trajectory is what the Dream is right now, and I think that's why it's such a great fit. Rhyne is on the court and she's a three-level scorer. She's a guard wing. She's 6’2”. You can put her in a lot of different positions on the court. And Atlanta loved that. And a lot of teams love that. She also is a two way player, which is incredibly valuable. But a reason why people may not know her name as much is because she was on a team that she pretty much carried the load. Kentucky did not have a lot of talent around her. You didn't really see her on the big stage during the final levels of the tournament. You saw her at her best in the SEC tournament where Kentucky upset South Carolina. What's interesting about Rhyne and the concern there is, well, why did the Mystics trade out of that top spot? I personally believe that the Mystics are in win now mode and they didn't think that someone like Rhyne, who is so talented but needs something different from her coaching staff, she needs maybe different support than what the Mystics are willing to give. So I think she just fits really well with Atlanta. They're a team that's rebuilding, and so their trajectories are going to go along with each other in a nice little parallel line.
Lindsay: Yeah. I think that's really important. And I'm gonna go ahead and skip to number three and then we'll go back and pick up NaLyssa Smith. I course covered the Washington Mystics for years and actually covered Shakira Austin, the player they chose, a center from Ole Miss, the first two years of her career she was with Maryland. So, you know, I got to know her very well. And I think because she did leave Maryland in kind of a shock exit, you know, I think there may be questions about whether she'd be the, you know, personality wise and dedication wise a good fit for this team. But the thing about Shakira is that she has said from day one that her focus has been to be a pro, and a lot of college players actually don't talk like that. Like, they might behind closed doors, but you don't talk to many top recruited freshmen who say my goal is to be the number one draft pick in four years.
And I think Shakira has really dedicated herself fully to being pro ready. You know, one of the reasons she went to Ole Miss was because she wanted more responsibility. She wanted more on her shoulders. She wanted more pressure. And she certainly got that. And now she just talked in press about going to a team where she doesn't have to be that, right? And it's going to be, I think, a nice transition. But I think for me, because Shakira has always owned her pro desires and set herself on that path, I wasn't surprised that Thibault was drawn to that. And then, you know, to go back NaLyssa Smith, what is she going to bring to the Fever? Let’s just dive right into it. [laughs]
Jackie: So, I first want to say that drafting NaLyssa Smith was a great pick for the Fever. I think what she's going to bring is just a will to win and an intensity that the Fever haven't had in quite a long time. And I think that's a bit of the desire here, especially bringing back GM or interim GM Lynn Dunn back into the fold. She was coaching this team when you had Tamika Catchings and Briann January, two really intense and fiery players, and I think that's what you get with NaLyssa Smith. You also get a lot of athleticism. If you think about who the Fever were in the past few years when it comes to in the front court, their front court was not very athletic at all. I mean, they traded Teaira McCowan for a reason, because they wanted a different look in their front court. And they're going to get it. They're going to get it with NaLyssa Smith. They're also going to get it with Emily Engstler in the post and on the wing. And they're going to get a lot of defensive intensity from Engstler as well.
I do believe Smith's defense has been steadily improving. I think Nicki Collen's system at Baylor was a huge asset to her, in that she really started to learn about switching. You know, you have to be able to guard multiple positions at the pro level. So, I think her defense is good, but I don't think it's where Engstler is when it comes to her instincts. But when you look at those two picks for the Fever, at two and at four, really nice building blocks for Indiana.
Lindsay: So, the next two. Jackie Powell in her piece at Bleacher Report had Indiana as both a winner and a loser at the draft. So, at #6 they took Lexie Hull from Stanford. Lexie Hull was not invited to the draft. A lot of mocks didn't have her in the first two rounds. Then Queen Egbo from Baylor at #10. So, let's talk Lexie first. I was legitimately stunned by that.
Jackie: I was texting a talent evaluator and he was like, Jackie, get ready to be shocked. And I was like, what? He's like, just wait! And then the shock came. So, with Lexie Hull, the reason I was shocked is because I had heard that when it came to the players in her I guess category or position, if you will, there were wings that were just more pro ready than her. I think she has a lot of pro ready intangibles, like when it comes to IQ, when it comes to competitive spirit and being a pro teammate, I think she has it. But some of the things that she doesn't have are physicality, strength. If you watched her at Stanford, the way she was able to absorb contact, I mean, she can't absorb a lot. And it's not her fault. She just has to get stronger. So I just thought that Hull was a player that she's drafted in the second round, she comes to pro camp, she gets waived, she goes overseas, gets a lot better overseas, and then she finds a way back into the W a couple of years later. That was the path I had for her. I had no idea that she was going to go in the first round.
But Indiana and Lynn Dunn, they had an explanation for this. They said that, from their perspective, from their subjective perspective, that Lexie Hull was the best shooter in this draft. Lexie Hull is a great shooter. She is. She shot very well in her senior year. I don't know if she's the best. I'm just not sure. But this is what the Fever believed. They wanted much better shooting, because I believe the Fever were the worst shooting team in the W in 2021. They thought, “We don't know if she's going to be there when we pick at 10 again,” and they really liked her. So they picked her at 6.
Lindsay: All right. Queen Egbo at 10. That's another pick for the Fever that really confused you. Why?
Jackie: So, during the pre-draft call, which is something that the league does every year, they bring on LaChina Robinson and Rebecca Lobo, ESPN’s two analysts, and then they bring on some coaches and GMs. During the ESPN analyst section of the call, for some reason both of them talked quite a bit about Queen Egbo. Both clearly they knew something that we did not, because in my discussions with different talent evaluators around the league, the idea was Egbo was someone who would go in the third round. She didn't really transition well into Nicki Collen’s pro system as quickly as NaLyssa Smith. She was in foul trouble a lot. She struggled with physicality in the post. But for some reason, talent evaluators, they like her length and they like how aggressive she is on the boards. And I believe that's what Lynn Dunn said there. But I just felt like there were better forwards. There were better players that could be picked at 10.
Lindsay: Yep. Quickly touching on a few, what are your thoughts on Sabally to the Liberty? I know that's a team you cover closely. And I know it's kind of looped in a little bit to Cubaj, who was their pick in the second round.
Jackie: I think the idea here for the Liberty was they were going to address their biggest need, which is depth in the post. And although, if Emily Engstler was still available, I do believe and I do know that they were very interested in her because of defensively what she brings. When talking about the Liberty, I'd say they have two needs: really good defensive players, and depth in the post. And so they accomplish this with both Nyara Sabally and Lorela Cubaj. With Nyara, the idea is…And I understand there are concerns about her health, and the Liberty know that as well. The idea is they have a medical staff and a player development staff in place that are willing to be very patient with her and they're willing to take their time with her. She has a ton of upside, and she can be a player that's in this league for a long time. That's their belief. And so with Cubaj, it's more what she can do defensively. She was up for the Naismith Defensive Player of the Year award, which, as we know, went to Aliyah Boston. But they also like her for her play-making ability. She's a really good passer, and Sandy Brondello really likes it when you have bigs that can pass. And they recently acquired Stef Dolson. So, it's a good post group that they've developed here.
Lindsay: Awesome. Very quickly, Veronica Burton from Northwestern to the Wings. This was the seventh pick overall. She's a point guard. This was another pick that confused some people. Did it confuse you?
Jackie: I just…Burton is a great prospect, and I just don't think the Wings will have space for her. I don't think they'll be dedicated to what she has to offer. The Wings need defense, yes, they do. But they have two other point guards. I just saw Burton thriving with the Connecticut Sun because they needed someone like her.
Lindsay: We'll get to the Connecticut Sun in a second. Another team that had two picks in the first round, the Las Vegas Aces. I know nothing about Mya Hollingshed from Colorado. That's who they picked at 8. And then at 11, they picked Kierstan Bell, a guard from Gulf Coast who I am more familiar with. What do you know about Mya and why do you think this is the pick that…I don't even know who the GM of the Aces is right now, but they went with? [laughs]
Jackie: I believe they just hired Natalie Williams?
Lindsay: Oh yes. But that was announced like this week.
Jackie: Yes. But my impression is probably she's been on the job for longer than it's been announced. What I know about the Aces and Hollingshed is that Natalie Williams and Becky Hammon wanted a stretch four, and that's what they get in Hollingshed. She has worked throughout her entire college career at Colorado at improving her three point shot. And she has. She's like your 3-and-D player. She's very versatile on the defensive end, and very athletic. So, when it comes to scoring and transition, she can do that too.
Lindsay: I like it. And then Bell. I mean, I just love a mid-major guard under Becky Hammon. It's hard not to love that. [laughs] That was one of the few where I was like, oh, this feels right.
Jackie: They also needed a wing, someone who's physical and big in the wing and back court, because Jackie Young was all they really had.
Lindsay: Yeah. To round it up, at #12 the Connecticut Sun got what I think you said could be the steal of the draft. I know Holly Rowe agreed with that. A lot of people very high on this pick. I know Curt Miller was thrilled that Nia Clouden dropped down to the Connecticut Sun at #12. Why is Curt Miller, like, why can we hear his squeal of joy from Connecticut right now?
Jackie: Connecticut needed a guard. I think that was obvious. Initially, I thought they were going to go more on a defensive route, someone who can 3-and-D it and fill the hole that is left by Briann January. But what this tells me is that Curt Miller understands that they need to get a little bit more offensive rather than defensive, which was their downfall during the playoffs. They didn't have that closer. They have Courtney Williams back. But what I like about Clouden is that she can play both the one and the two. She's more comfortable playing the two, but she's a nice compliment to Courtney Williams. Clouden is very comfortable scoring everywhere. She's another shot creator, which is what the Sun really needed in their back court because Jasmine Thomas is more like point of attack defender type. Natisha Hiedeman, she's really good from three, can create a little bit, but in Nia Clouden what you have here is you have someone who can create their shot at will sorta like Courtney Williams.
Lindsay: Love that. I did forget to talk about one other player in round one, but Rae Burrell, the guard from Tennessee, at #9 went to the Los Angeles Sparks. Any kind of a last second thoughts on Rae Burrell? I love watching her play. This is my only thought. She’s just fun.
Jackie: I just knew the Sparks were gonna pick her if she was available, and she fills a need that they have. They sort of need a versatile wing that can slash a little bit more than Katie Lou Samuelson, and that's who she is.
Lindsay: So I'm just going to read through round two and ask for an overall impression, which is really hard because there's so much talent in this draft. So, #13 we've got Khayla Pointer from LSU went to the Aces. I love that pick. Nikki Fargas of course is the president of the Aces, was her head coach at LSU. But also Nikki Fargas is Khayla Pointer’s aunt. So, love those connections. Christyn Williams from UConn went to DC at 14. Naz Hillmon from Michigan went to the Dream at 15 – another steal of the draft is what we're hearing from folks in the Dream camp. Kianna Smith from Louisville went to the Sparks at 16. My 336 Greensboro girl, Elissa Cunane from NC State went to the Seattle Storm. Wow – the ESPN page is telling me that Lorela Cubaj went to the Storm as well! But I know that she went to the Liberty. [laughs] You're not gonna fool me, ESPN!
Olivia Nelson-Ododa from UConn went to the Sparks at 19. Destanni Henderson, South Carolina went to the Fever at 20. Evina Westbrook from UConn went to the Storm at 21. Kayla Jones from NC State went to the Lynx at 22. Aisha Sheppard, Virginia Tech, went to the Aces at 23. Jordan Lewis from Baylor went to the Sun at 24. We know it is very hard for first round picks, let alone second round picks, to make teams. If you had to pick two players from the second round that you think could make the roster and actually get playing time this season, is there anybody on here?
Jackie: Yeah. There could be even three of them. I think Pointer, huge possibility there. They need a backup point guard, the Aces. I think Christyn Williams is going to be… Christyn Williams is a classic Mike Thibault wildcard. And based on the presser last night, I think there's a very high chance that she makes the team. And the third one I'd say is probably Naz Hillmon because the Dream, they’re going to have the space for her, and they're going to have the player development infrastructure to take on what she requires.
Lindsay: Yeah. Totally agree with you there. Like I said, I hope Cunane makes it onto the roster in Seattle. [laughs] I think it could be fun to watch, but I know there's a lot of speculation. I mean, it's just so tough. Finally, we're just going to go over round three. I think the highlight for most people, myself included, was Ameshya Williams-Holliday from Jackson State being picked 25th overall by the Indiana Fever, the first HBCU player to be drafted in 20 years. That's a huge deal. Maya Dodson from Notre Dame going to the Mercury at 26. Amy Atwell from Hawaii going to the Sparks at 27. Hannah Sjerven from South Dakota at 28 to the Lynx. Sika Koné from Mali on the Liberty. I don't think we're planning on seeing her this season in the W; definitely a name to keep an eye out for. Jasmine Dickey from Delaware to the Wings, Jazz Bond from North Florida also to the Wings.
Macee Williams from IUPUI – which is like Indiana University at Purdue University? I don't know. It's something. I actually love her and I love her with the Mercury. I'm very excited for that. Jade Melbourne from Australia to the Storm at 33. Ali Patberg, Miss Indiana herself, from Indiana to the Indiana Fever at 34. At 35, Faustine Aifuwa from LSU to the Aces. And then round up things, Kiara Smith from Florida to the Connecticut Sun. Is there one player here that you think could make a roster, that has a chance?
Jackie: Yes. And that is Maya Dodson, which is a good transition into talking about the Phoenix Mercury, because they have the need in the post, obviously.
Lindsay: Yeah. So, it was interesting. We've talked about the Brittney Griner situation on Burn It All Down before and talked about how sensitive a topic it is and how we're kind of taking cues from her camp and from those in the know in the situation as to how to talk about it, you know? And we all want to get Brittney Griner out of Russia as soon as possible. Information is that she is safe, that she's getting visits a couple of times a week, that she can get notes. Cathy Engelbert opened the press conference saying that getting her home is the top priority and they're working on it. They also addressed it on the broadcast. So, I think it's very good that nobody's sweeping this under the rug. With it all comes uncomfortable questions, because this is a sport and athletes are humans first and foremost. But the season's happening, and it looks unlikely that Brittney Griner will be a part of. It seems like they're trying to work out something, a special deal where Brittney will get her salary but it might not count against the Mercury's salary cap. A very unique circumstance that I feel like most everyone in the WNBA would agree to, given what's happening. But on the court, they're missing a big piece without Brittney Griner. So, you mentioned Maya Dodson. That seemed to me saying we need some front court juice here.
Jackie: Oh yes. I was reading Alex Simon's latest on The Next, sort of about what the Mercury's draft means, and he mentioned Dodson in particular, who has ties to both head coach Vanessa Nygaard because they were both Stanford alumni and then she obviously was a graduate student at Notre Dame so there's that connection to Skylar Diggins-Smith and Brianna Turner. But what's to like about her is she's a pro ready body. She's very strong and she's a very athletic big.
Lindsay: Yeah. How did you feel about the way that Brittney's detainment was covered and addressed in the draft coverage last night? It seems like almost a crude question to ask, but I also think we do a lot of media criticism on the show and it's important to kind of address…How did you feel about the tone that was struck?
Jackie: Before the broadcast, when Cathy Engelbert came out and did her pre-draft presser, the first thing she said was to talk about BG. I thought that tone was very appropriate. I think it was somber, but it was just reiterating how we're not not talking about this, but also we want to speak about it respectfully and we want to honor BG. During the broadcast, it did not feel like that. It felt a little bit forced. It felt all over the place. There were multiple BG updates, which were sort of the same update. I mean, I feel like what would have been best, and maybe because COVID brain is doing this to me…Lindsay, do you remember if, when Cathy first addressed the broadcast, did she talk about BG to begin with?
Lindsay: I think she did. I think she said it at the top of the program, because I remember her saying it and I wasn't on that press conference.
Jackie: So, I believe that just by addressing it at the top and maybe adding some of what Holly said in that we've been in touch with her people, she's safe. There was one bit of Holly's two reports that I think was important. You mention it at the top and then you move on to the prospects. Just the constant back and forth of, oh, we're going to update you on BG, but it's really the same report on BG. It added a very chaotic flare to the story. And generally, when you talk about the broadcast. It was very chaotic.
Lindsay: It was a hot mess. It was a hot ass mess. I'm sorry, this whole…Look, I do not feel good. I have not been able to work in like a week. I did not go into last night planning to be critical. It was so unorganized, from the camera work to the direction to Holly Rowe just running around from table to table like she was Billy on the Street. None of the cameras…We didn't get the exact reaction from players when their names were called. And I left there feeling like I had no idea who was drafted when, where, or why. You know, it's rare to have this two hour window dedicated to the W when it's not a game, right? So what they try and do, they try and fit in every single thing about the league, about the teams, about the on court, about the off court, about women's sports as a whole into one 2-hour window that is also a draft of 36 players. That's dumb as hell.
Jackie: Yes.
Lindsay: It made me mad because I think ESPN has done a lot right lately when it comes to women's sports and women's basketball. I think they have so much talent and insight. But there's something about the way that the rest of their coverage is evolving but their WNBA coverage is staying exactly the same that's not working. And Holly wasn't connecting well with the players. Maybe it's because she has a billion jobs. I mean, I don't know how she does all the jobs she has. What she's not is, you know, on the sidelines for the women's game anymore, because she's doing a lot of other things, you know? I've tweeted…I mean, I think Monica McNutt should be on everything. Like, she's the most talented person I've ever seen on television. I spent some time with her at the Final Four.
Jackie: I love that.
Lindsay: But anyways, it was just disappointing is what it was. There were moments that they didn't even get to – Williams-Holliday being the HBCU pick, like, that wasn't even mentioned.
Jackie: Literally had a piece from Andscape, which was formerly The Undefeated, that was all about it!
Lindsay: Yeah! The best piece.
Jackie: So, it's exactly what you're saying. It's they have all of this talent, but the lack of being able to connect it all and package it properly is what blows my mind. I also think that the chaos that we saw, in addition to it being a haphazard broadcast and Holly not connecting, I think it was the nature of the event and the nature of the space. I was talking last night to someone who was there – her name is Isabel Rodrigues and she's at The Next, she's one of our new folks. She was just really shocked by how chaotic the entire event was and how you had to keep running up and down stairs. She would bump into some of the prospects while running up and down the stairs. There were people going off in different rooms, playing games. It seemed like it was too much, and that the W needs to decide…This was the first in-person draft under Cathy Engelbert, and I think they need to figure out what do they want the WNBA draft to be? Do they want it to be about the prospects? Do they want it to be a celebration of the league? Do they want it to be a time where they provide Brittney Griner updates? There was so much going on. And going forward, they need to decide what they want their event to be.
Lindsay: I do agree. Like, what's your priority? And it's tough. I'm not saying any of this is easy, right? But I am saying that there are enough people at ESPN who are experienced in event production and in doing big events and in doing drafts that this shouldn't be happening. This is embarrassing. And this is final final question: I wasn't mad that they had like a fashion segment on the show. Like, that was fine. It's just, don't do that at the expense of like…
Jackie: Announcing prospects! Announcing who is being drafted!
Lindsay: Anyways, who was your best dressed of the night?
Jackie: Oh, that's easy. Shakira Austin. No doubt.
Lindsay: Shakira Austin looked incredible. Over the years it's become such a showcase of all the different ways there are to be a top prospect and to be on center stage in this league, right? I think it was Katie Barnes, they tweeted something like, you know, a lot of places say “come as you are” but don't mean it, but the W means it.
Jackie: Now they do.
Lindsay: Now they do. Players have fought hard for that. But I think if there's the most positive from the draft night, from what the draft has become, is that. And it's so cool to watch. All right, Jackie, how can people follow you?
Jackie: Y'all can follow me at the handle @ClassicJpow on Twitter, on Instagram. You can read my women's basketball work at Bleacher Report. I do more national stuff there. And then for more New York Liberty focused stuff, you can head over to thenexthoops.com.
Lindsay: Awesome. Thanks so much for being on Burn It All Down.
Jackie: Thank you. It was an honor.
Lindsay: That’s it for this week's episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. We are part of the Blue Wire podcast network. Follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Listen, subscribe and rate – please rate the show! – on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn. We've got show links and transcripts on our website, burnitalldownpod.com. And there's also a link to our merch at our Bonfire store. Once again, you can find that all at burnitalldownpod.com. Thank you to our patrons. Your support literally makes all this possible. If you want to become a sustaining donor, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. Burn on, and not out.