Interview: JayCee Cooper, trans woman powerlifter suing USA Powerlifting
In this episode, Jessica talks with JayCee Cooper, a trans woman who is suing USA Powerlifting over the organization's blanket ban on trans lifters. They chat about JayCee’s love of powerlifting, why they’re suing, and the support she has gotten from the powerlifting community.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Jessica: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. Jessica here. I’m joined today by JayCee Cooper, a trans powerlifter who lives in Minnesota. She’s the co-director of Pull For Pride, and an ambassador for Athlete Ally. JayCee was banned from the sport by USA Powerlifting and so they have filed a lawsuit against the organization and its Minnesota affiliate. We will get into all of that and more but first, if this is a topic that’s of interest to you please go back into the Burn It All Down archives and check out my discussion with Christina Ginther in episode 89. Ginther is a trans woman, also in Minnesota, who won a discrimination suit against a women’s tackle football team and league. In episode 95 I spoke to ESPN’s Katie Barnes about the argument against including trans athletes in sports, the sexism underlying this argument, and the harm these arguments do – especially to trans kids. Finally, on powerlifting, check out Brenda’s chat with Dr. Melissa Forbis on episode 99. They talk about powerlifting, strength, and feminism. And now, on to my interview with JayCee Cooper. JayCee, will you please introduce yourself to our listeners?
JayCee: Hi, well, first of all, thanks for having me. I’m JayCee Cooper, my pronouns are she/her and they/them, and I’m a competitive powerlifter. I’m also the co-director of an organization called Pull For Pride. We put on charitable powerlifting events that support local LGBT organizations and also do advocacy work. I’m also a former curler, a DJ–
Jessica: A DJ!
JayCee: I am a DJ, that is why I have some of the equipment that I have on hand here.
Jessica: Wow! [laughs]
JayCee: You aren’t gonna see this at home, but I have a condenser mic in front of me and lights and stuff like that.
Jessica: JayCee has a set up!
JayCee: Yeah, I’m a DJ, that’s a little-known fact. I’m also a neighbor, a friend, a sister, and a pretty okay person, I think. [laughter]
Jessica: Before we get into it I wanna ask – so, when you’re doing a DJ set, do you have like a final song that you like to end with?
JayCee: Oh my gosh…Anything by Sylvester.
Jessica: So, can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with sports? Did you play sports when you were young? Did you have a favorite sport to play or to watch?
JayCee: Yeah, sports have been such an inherent part of my life. I can’t remember a time when it wasn’t such the focal point of my existence, really. [laughs] My father was a track and field coach and from a very early age I was put into things like soccer and t-ball and I played roller hockey and–
Jessica: Wow, okay!
JayCee: Yeah, sports have always been a part of my life very early on.
Jessica: And you did curling, I understand?
JayCee: Yeah, absolutely. Yep, I started curling when I was younger too.
Jessica: You were quite a curler!
JayCee: Yeah, former junior national champion. I’ve had like 5 or 6 national appearances, something like that, total.
Jessica: Wow.
JayCee: College club juniors, yeah.
Jessica: I don’t know much about curling. I’m one of those bandwagon people [JayCee laughs] that when the Olympics roll around I’ll watch it and get too invested in a sport I don’t quite understand. But were you the one who pushed the…What is the thing called?
JayCee: Oh, the rock? The stone.
Jessica: The rock! Did you push the rock, did you sweep? What did you do?
JayCee: I did both. So, there’s kind of a rotation and for my teams I was usually a front end player, so that means I went first or second. So, I was a lead or a second, are the two positions. So, I would throw the first two rocks and then sweep everyone else’s rocks.
Jessica: Got it! Cool. One of my co-hosts, Shireen, is Canadian, and so she’s our curling expert.
JayCee: Oh, no way! [laughs]
Jessica: Everything I know about curling…We leave all the ice sports to her!
JayCee: Fantastic. It’s such a great sport. Who doesn’t like sliding on ice?
Jessica: Yeah! And everything about it is just delightful, really.
JayCee: Yeah, and it’s a great social sport, especially in the wintertime. Here in Minnesota it gets cold and it gets dark and curling is one of those things that really brings people out of their houses for folks to socialize. So, yeah, it’s a fantastic sport. If you haven’t tried it, once we get through this pandemic, I would definitely suggest giving it a go.
Jessica: Okay, so I’m gonna pivot a little bit here. Because we’re gonna end up talking about one particular sport I thought it would be nice if we could start by you telling us: what is powerlifting?
JayCee: Sure. Powerlifting is a strength sport that consists of 3 disciplines: the squat, the bench press, and the deadlift. All three of your lifts you get three attempts, and your heaviest lift from each gets counted towards your total and that’s how you win or lose in powerlifting.
Jessica: When did you begin powerlifting?
JayCee: Powerlifting proper, I started training and focusing on powerlifting in 2018. I had thought about it in 2017 after I had seen Pull For Pride that summer. Pull For Pride is this event that I’m now a co-director of – the other co-director being Breanna Diaz, who’s a fantastic co-director and is an incredible advocate as well. But it was the first time I had seen powerlifting in person. It’s a deadlift only event and it’s specifically celebrating the LGBTQ community and raising money for organizations that provide support for LGBTQ folks. So, to happen to walk upon this event and see this celebration of the queer community and doing so within the sports context, I was really drawn to it. It just so happened that that fall I had broken my ankle playing another sport, roller derby–
Jessica: Oh!
JayCee: So, I used to play roller derby.
Jessica: Awesome.
JayCee: During the rehab process for that injury I really started looking towards strength sports, and then gravitated towards powerlifting because of seeing that event.
Jessica: Why do you love it? Why do you love doing powerlifting?
JayCee: The feeling of just like the stress and restriction and pushing against that and really being in your own body and encapsulating that power and pushing against something that really wants to get you down…It’s much like being a trans person in our society, and for trans people it even takes on more meaning because you’re intentionally being in your body and physically doing an activity that requires strength, requires power. It requires this ownership of the activity that you’re doing. I mean, after doing it even that one time I was hooked and just needed to do it more.
Jessica: You’re preaching to the choir. I’m like, nodding really hard here! [laughter] It’s amazing when you’re doing this kind of workout, what gets turned up for you and what you're able to release when you’re doing it.
JayCee: Yeah, you’re forced to be present, right?
Jessica: Yes! Can you tell us, what is USA Powerlifting? Why is that organization important?
JayCee: USA Powerlifting is the national governing body for powerlifting in the United States that leads to competition in the International Powerlifting Federation – lots of acronyms! [Jessica laughs] Competition in USAPL leads to the world games, which is unofficially called the Olympics for non-Olympic sports. It is an international multi-sports event that is recognized by the Olympics and is supported by the Olympics, so it’s a big deal. So, USA Powerlifting is the national governing body that is kind of the pathway to those competitions.
Jessica: Yeah, so, you live in Minnesota, you’re a trans woman, you signed up to compete in two women’s powerlifting events that were scheduled for early 2019. Then in December of 2018 you received an email from USA Powerlifting, USAPL. What did that email say to you?
JayCee: That email said that…So, I had submitted a therapeutic use exemption – I’m just gonna go back for a second. I had submitted a therapeutic use exemption form because one of the medications that I take, spironolactone, for hormone replacement therapy as a trans woman, is on the prohibited substance list for the World Anti-Doping Agency. However, it’s standardly granted an exemption across as far as I know all sports because it’s not a performance-enhancing drug. In fact, it actually helps reduce your testosterone levels. So, I submitted that form and the response was that my form had been denied because trans women simply were not eligible to compete at all because of their belief that trans women are conferred unfair advantage.
Jessica: That’s USA Powerlifting’s belief, USAPL’s belief.
JayCee: Yeah, that's what…Not in those exact words, but that's what the chair of the team of the TUE committee communicated to me.
Jessica: Gotcha. How did you feel? Like, I can’t imagine reading an email like that.
JayCee: Absolutely. I mean, I was crushed, but also confused. I didn’t necessarily want to believe it. I mean, I guess I was experiencing an array of emotions. I was crushed because obviously I want to be able to compete. I was confused, I thought maybe that they had gotten it wrong and maybe if I talked to them we could sort it out. I did respond asking for clarification and all of that, and then also because of the environment surrounding trans women in sports I wasn’t completely shocked either. So it was really a lot of emotions being experienced simultaneously, but in the end I was really disappointed and crushed because of it.
Jessica: So, you haven’t since then been able to compete in any USAPL-sanctioned events?
JayCee: Correct. I’ve not been able to compete in any USA Powerlifting events. I have competed in another organization or another federation in untested events, but USAPL is the bigger organization, especially here in Minnesota. It’s the organization that all of my friends and all of my competitors were competing in here in Minnesota. So, to take away that avenue of competition and to take away that pathway to furthering my competitive career, it was really heartbreaking for me.
Jessica: And you recently filed suit against both USA Powerlifting and USA Powerlifting Minnesota, the state where you live and where you’re trying to compete. What made you decide to file the suit?
JayCee: I mean, after having tried to get clarification from USAPL to see where they’re getting information from, et cetera…Well, actually, let me go back. After I had applied and signed up to compete they instated a ban on trans athletes after I had gone through that process and everything, and they explicitly adopted a rule.
Jessica: Jeez…
JayCee: So, after that had happened and I went through me and a group of really amazing advocates including Breanna Diaz, the other co-director of Pull for Pride, we submitted a rule change to try to get that changed through the proper avenues within USA Powerlifting, and our rule change was then turned down and then it became really apparent at that point that without outside intervention then nothing was going to change. I really didn’t want any other trans people to experience the harm and the disappointment and heartbreak that I had experienced going through that process.
Jessica: Yeah, of course. If you’ll bear with me, I’d like to read a part of your lawsuit against USAPL to give our listeners an understanding of where USAPL’s ban fits within the larger world of women’s lifting. So, everyone, stick with me here: “USAPL’s ban on transgender women is an outlier among international, national, and local sports organizations. The Olympic Games, the most widely recognized elite international sports competition in the world, has adopted policies to permit transgender athletes to compete. At the time of her exclusion from USAPL, Ms. Cooper had more than met the requirements to be permitted to compete in the Olympic Games.
Transgender athletes are also welcome to compete in international and national elite organizations that regulate strength sports such as the International Powerlifting Federation, the International Weightlifting Federation, USA Weightlifting, Strongman Corporation, the Canadian Powerlifting Union, and the CrossFit Games. Locally, transgender student athletes can compete at the college and high school levels because both the NCAA and the Minnesota State High School League have formally adopted transgender-inclusive policies.” They’re just such an outlier in so many ways. Do you have a sense of why the USAPL has taken this particular hard line here compared to what appears to be the rest of the strength world?
JayCee: You know, I’m not going to begin to guess where their thoughts and feelings are coming from. But though this process and through experiencing it it’s been clear that there is a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of fear, and I think that it’s not too surprising considering like I said earlier the environment in which trans women are talked about within sport, especially how loud anti-trans activists are and how attractive that might seem in comparison to what white cis men would like us to believe when it comes to women competing in sports, trans women competing in sports. This is something that we both share, this common misconception of what women can do and how women can compete.
Jessica: As you’re talking I realize that I actually spoke to Christina Ginther, who’s also in Minnesota, and she’s a trans woman–
JayCee: Oh, I love Christina!
Jessica: So, that’s amazing that there’s even that legal precedent within your state. You’ve had some big time support, including from representative Ilhan Omar, and you’ve had support from within the powerlifting community itself. What have other powerlifters done to show that they are supporting you and other trans athletes?
JayCee: Oh gosh, where to begin. I think just going back, one of the first things that occurred is after the new rule set had been established, a couple of local gyms here in Minneapolis got together and decided that they were going to protest at the state championships in which I was going to compete at, but then was disallowed from competing. How they did it is they timed out their lifts, and what that means is they went up to the platform and when they were supposed to take their lifts they stood there in silence in solidarity of trans athletes, and while that was occurring their friends and colleagues would cheer them on in the crowd showing support, and it was a super meaningful thing that they were doing.
There was a lot of support for what was going on, and while other competitors that would take a lift would come up to the platform everyone would sit down and then also cheer them on as they were lifting. So, there was a lot of camaraderie and a lot of spirit and a lot of people showing solidarity for trans people that day. That’s just one way – there have been other people who have brought flags onto the podium to show their support or have worn shirts on the podium in support. So, there’s been an outpouring of support within the powerlifting community. It’s just unfortunate that, as of yet, USA Powerlifting hasn’t responded positively to any of it.
Jessica: Yeah, but it’s clear that it’s not a set idea within the whole community, right? Like, that there are definitely powerlifters who disagree.
JayCee: No, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Jessica: So, people who are opposed to letting trans athletes compete often claim that it is unfair to the other competitors – they almost exclusively use this argument when it comes to trans women athletes. I actually spoke to ESPN’s Katie Barnes about this on episode 95 if anyone wants to listen to more about that. What is your response to people that claim that inclusion of trans athletes is quote-unquote “unfair?”
JayCee: I mean, I certainly don’t have an advantage. [laughter] I don’t see it as being unfair. Look at our history in sport – there hasn’t been any trans women or trans athlete that has dominated any one sport, ever, and that’s in the entire history of trans people being able to participate. This is not something that’s new. Trans people have been competing in sports since the 70s, you look at Renée Richards. These thoughts and feelings are really based in fair and not in fact, and I think that’s really where we need to start. [laughs]
Jessica: Yeah. I always like to direct everyone back to all the cis men who control all the sports [laughs] and are the reason that women’s sports are unfair! I wanted to ask you, before I let you go – is Pull for Pride a local thing in the Cities, or is it a bigger thing that other people can compete in if they live in other parts of the country? Or even the world? I don’t know. How big is it?
JayCee: Pull for Pride is a nationwide event. It was going international last year, but…
Jessica: COVID.
JayCee: The pandemic occurred, yeah. We were going to do a few cities in Canada. Actually we did do Canada before that! So I guess it's an international event. Last year it was going to occur in 14 cities. We’re still in the midst of planning for this upcoming year and it’s likely going to be a virtual event, but if you want to know more information about it go to pullforpride.com and updates will be on there. You can also follow in Instagram as well.
Jessica: Awesome. Is there anything in Texas?
JayCee: Last year we were going to do Austin and then obviously it didn’t pan out. If we go virtual there’ll be opportunities for everyone.
Jessica: Is there anything else that you would like people to know about powerlifting or being a powerlifter or a trans woman in sport?
JayCee: I mean, trans athletes aren’t scary, like, please just come up and talk to us, you know? We’re just people. We aren’t this hypothetical monster that’s creeping underneath your bed. [laughs] We’re actual, real people, and are just there to get the same benefits out of sport that anyone else is.
Jessica: Well, here at Burn It All Down we care a lot about trans inclusivity, and inclusivity in general within sport, and we are rooting you on with your lawsuit and hopefully USAPL will just come around to the rest of the strength world and just do what's right here. How can our listeners find you out there on the internet?
JayCee: Sure. You can follow me on Instagram. My…Oh my gosh, what is it called?
Jessica: Handle.
JayCee: Handle! My handle is @jayceeisalive.
Jessica: I love that.
JayCee: My first name is spelled J-A-Y-C-E-E, so @jayceeisalive, and you can find me on Twitter as well at the same handle. I also wanna give a shoutout to Gender Justice, who is representing me in this case. You can follow them on Instagram as well; I believe their handle is just @genderjustice but maybe it's not. I don’t know. [laughter]
Jessica: Well, good luck with everything, JayCee. Thank you so much for coming on Burn It All Down.
JayCee: Absolutely, thank you so much for having me.