Interview: Rick Westhead on Sexual Abuse in Hockey
*Content Warning: This episode discusses sexual abuse*
In this episode, Shireen Ahmed interviews TSN journalist Rick Westhead about his reporting on allegations of sexual abuse by former Chicago NHL team coach Brad Aldrich. They discuss the challenges of investigative reporting, his powerful interview with survivor Kyle Beach and how his reporting has impacted the hockey world. Following this discussion is Rick Westhead's full interview on TSN with Kyle Beach.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Shireen: Hi flamethrowers, Shireen here. This is a trigger warning and a content warning for my upcoming interview with Rick Westhead of TSN. We will be discussing the allegations of abuse against former coach Brad Aldrich at the Chicago NHL team, and we will be airing Rick's full interview with Kyle Beach on TSN following my interview with him.
Hello flamethrowers, Shireen here. Today, I'm joined by Rick Westhead. You may have heard of his name. Rick is not only a senior correspondent for TSN and a contributor to CTV national news and W5. He is an award-winning investigative journalist with 25 years experience. But Rick has actually broken the most important story in what I feel definitely is hockey, perhaps, if not all of sport. Rick is also the author of the bestselling book, Finding Murph, an incredible story about Joe Murphy, a former NHL player who ended up living in the bush in Kenora, Ontario. But today Rick is here to talk about his investigative reporting, the Chicago NHL sex scandal, and really where he feels hockey can go – if it can actually go anywhere. Morning, Rick.
Rick: Good morning.
Shireen: I know you've had like 500 media calls in the last week or so, and I appreciate you being here. Just for transparency’s sake, I also want to say that Rick is a dear friend and a colleague of mine. So, for those listeners who don't know, this initially started with Rick doing Rick things and essentially reporting on…Rick was it a source or a tip that you got?
Rick: Well, I mean, I think to be fair, it's not just Rick. You know, I saw a story that a public radio station in Chicago had reported back in May about a lawsuit that had been filed by an anonymous former Chicago Blackhawks player who alleged that he'd been sexually assaulted by one of his coaches. And it was one of the most disturbing things I'd read in a court file. You know, it's one of those moments you kind of look around and you're thinking…As I'm trying to do a match, which is basically a story matching what the Chicago public radio station had already done. I thought, this is one of the craziest things I've ever heard. But no one else seemed to be picking up on it. And so I did that single story and then kept checking the court docket, because I think one of the things reporters, that we have to be mindful of, is following stories and legal cases as they work their way through.
The statements of claim – the first sort of like big bang in a story – gets a ton of attention, but going back and back to the court docket, the court file, which in some jurisdictions actually means going into the court itself to pull documents, to make sure that you report on the statement of defense, because to be fair to people who were accused you want to do more than just report on that initial allegation. You need to tell the story of both sides and then follow it forward. So while I was checking the docket, I discovered that another lawsuit had been filed against the Blackhawks that had not been reported on. And that was the case that was filed by a former high school hockey player who was sexually abused by Brad Aldrich in 2013.
Shireen: In Michigan.
Rick: Yeah. And so this lawsuit alleged that the Blackhawks’ coverup of Brad Aldrich's predatory behavior had led to this family being destroyed in Michigan. This boy being sexually assaulted, and probably others. Between 2010 and 2013, Brad Aldrich worked at Miami University in Ohio for several months, and he left after two adults filed complaints of sexual interference against him. And in Houghton, Michigan, where he was convicted in 2013, the police interviewed a half dozen minors who had had experiences with Aldrich of interference, you know, whether it was inappropriate touching…We don't need to get into the specifics, because those allegations never led to charges, because only one person – John Doe 2, that former hockey player – only one person was willing to go through the process and press charges against Brad.
And so from there, you know, two stories, you just…I’m trying to connect with people who worked for the Blackhawks at the time. And somebody reached out to me who worked in the marketing department there, and we did a story quoting that person, saying that the knowledge of Brad Aldrich's behavior was widespread within the organization. Everyone knew about it. And surely to God, if a marketing department official knew about it, mid-level, then the team's management must have known about it. So we do a story on that. And then, you know, Paul Vincent comes to me, the former coach, and he starts filling in the blanks and he tells me about this meeting that happened with management in May 2010 where the Blackhawks senior executives were put on notice.
People like John McDonough, the team president; and Stan Bowman, the general manager; and Al MacIsaac, the vice president of hockey operations; Jim Gary, the team’s mental skills coach, and a certified counselor, who told players he was a doctor. In every email that he sent to players, his signature was “Doc Gary.” And they all knew. And when Kyle Beach, as we now know him, went to Jim Gary and told him that he'd been abused by Brad Aldrich, Jim Gary said, “This was your own fault. You put yourself in that position.” And how many abuse survivors have heard that kind of sentiment? I mean, what a disgusting common thread that seems to run through so many of these cases.
Anyways, I'm running off on a tangent, but there's a million stories in between there too. And just trying to shed more light on this and figure out where Aldrich is today and how he was running a business in Michigan on the backs of college interns – he’s still doing that today, by the way. And just trying to get to the truth, trying to piece this together. Who knew what, when. Trying to, you know, find accountability. Reaching out again and again and again to USA Hockey, to ask why Stan Bowman – after the Larry Nassar scandal with USA Gymnastics – how could it possibly be that a senior executive accused of covering up sexual abuse would be allowed to continue in a role as a senior manager for an Olympic program? It baffles the mind.
But USA Hockey just ghosted me. They wouldn't respond to any questions. So I tried to go around their PR department and reach the executives. I went to the US Olympic committee. I went to the US Olympic Committee’s sponsors. No one wanted to talk about this. Even today, no one will talk about it. In fact, now that Stan Bowman has been forced to step down from that position as general manager of USA Hockey's Olympic team, the person who publicly, anyways, is said to be most likely to replace him, is Bill Guerin. He's the general manager of the Minnesota Wild. He also is accused of covering up sexual abuse. And we could be reporting on this topic every day, and I could do this with original reporting every day for the rest of my career, and I still wouldn't be doing enough to spotlight this.
Shireen: So, I want to just pause for one sec, just for people who don't know. Skills coach Paul Vincent, who you said you connected with, is no longer with the organization, with the Chicago team. So actually after your initial report, I believe it was in May, there was a decision to have a third party investigation. And when the results of that came out, which was in October, I believe, Stan Bowman resigning, leaving his post. That's what the result was, including a fine, a $2 million fine. So, a lot of this fallout happened as a result of the third-party investigation, which was definitely prompted by your reporting. So, as you’re talking about predatory behavior, one question I have for you is: when you started digging into this, did you have any idea…Like, you've been doing this for a very long time. You know about systems of abuse. You have reported on abuse before. Did you know it would be like this?
Rick: How could you? You know, I've talked with people who…You have no idea where these stories are going to go. I've talked with hockey players who say that they've been abused by people who have prominent positions in the game today, and we have a half dozen conversations or more, and then they change their mind about going public. You know, one of the things that we hear time and again on social media, “Well, why did you wait so long? Why did this victim, this survivor, wait so long to come forward? It's been so long.” Like, “Why didn't they just go to the police right away?” And this judgment…I’m just a reporter. I have no training in psychology or how to counsel abuse survivors. Let's make that clear.
But I don't think you need to have that training to understand that it is going to take people time to process the pain that they're navigating. And who is anyone to judge someone for taking as much time as they need to share what's happened to them? So, no, I’m literally flying by the seat of my pants when I go through these. I'm trying to be mindful. I'm trying to give people the respect and space that they might want. I all the time am saying things like take your time, don't rush into any decisions about going public with this. Talk to your people who are your support network, whether it's your family, your spouse, your kids, whoever it is that’s closest to you. Make sure you're not making this decision hastily, to come forward.
And I pick up a lot of how to do this job from people like my friend Katie Strang at The Athletic, who’s...You know, she's aces at this. And I learn from her every day language to use, ways to go about reporting and speaking with sources, building a trust. Sometimes from the time somebody contacts you to the time you do a story – maybe it's a couple of weeks, other times maybe it's a couple months, maybe it's a couple of years. You know, the super important thing that people must appreciate – and I'm guessing most of the people who listen to your podcast are already well aware of this and have known about it way longer than I have – is just do not judge people for how long it has taken them to come forward. You know, educate yourself.
Shireen: So, the response from what I have watched was the response of media, and sports media in particular, about your reporting, which I felt there was a tremendous amount of, “Oh my goodness, we’re totally shocked.” Did that surprise you as well? What did you feel when you saw the response from fellow media?
Rick: That's a sensitive topic. The media is changing fast. And let's talk about that for a minute. How many news outlets or media outlets support reporting like this? How many places tell a reporter like me, hey, if it takes you a year to do this story, it's okay. You know, we’re now in a space where clicks matter. It’s not, “Do you have a story today?” It’s, “How many stories do you have today?” And, “How can you write a headline that's going to grab as many people as possible and be as sensational as you can be?” So, in a way, I think I sympathize with people who do the job because they're under a pressure like we've never been under before, being asked to do more with less.
And this is reporting – and Katie could tell you as well – that really does take time, you know? You don't walk into somebody's life and in your first conversation start asking them about the most intimate details of the worst day or period of their life. So, that I think is important. And then also there are reporters, I think, who probably would like to do more of this, but feel like they don't have the training or expertise to do it. Again, this is a sobering subject, and you don't want to say the wrong thing to someone who's clearly been traumatized and is maybe very fragile.
And third, you know, sports ultimately is fun, and what that means is there's a need for reporting on the fun. So, well, reporting on who the Toronto Maple Leafs line combinations are going to be tonight isn't my job, there's still an appetite for that, and that demand needs to be filled. And so who am I to judge anyone for doing a job that's different than mine? I think the expectation, at the same time, is for people who do different things in the media, in sports, I guess my hope would still be that that mutual respect would be there. And when we do, whether it's Katie or me or whoever, has a story of consequence, where there's an opportunity to hold a league or a team accountable, that people would get behind it and help support it and help spread it around and amplify it. Is that fair?
Shireen: Yeah. I mean, I think that's really smart. In fact, Sean Fitz-Gerald at The Athletic wrote a really great piece about how institutionally TSN and you did this and rolled out this interview with Kyle Beach, who disclosed himself in an interview with you, which is 28 minutes of probably the most impactful reporting in an interview that I've ever seen. And you know, you felt…And also Mike Lane was quoted, Ken Volden was quoted, those at TSN in the higher ups, saying how institutionally this was really important. So I'm just wondering your thoughts on that. Like you said, not all networks support this kind of reporting. If you could encourage networks to do this, what would you say? Like, I know you work with the team, but you work very independently as well within Bell Media and TSN. You don't have a team of researchers with you. You don't have a staff. It’s you.
Rick: Yeah. I mean, I've been doing this a long time. So, that's the other thing. Is it fair? Should we be managing our expectations about people who are just getting into the business? You know, I've had decades to kind of hone my skills in this, and I didn't start out as a young journalist knowing how to do all the things that I do right now that I think make me a better reporter. It takes time. You know, as you said, this is a cultural thing at TSN. TSN is a network that does foster a culture where we ask hard questions, where we do journalism. And that's amazing. You know, the stories that we have done, whether it's on brain injuries, and actually going to court and trying to, in the public interest, have all of the thousands and thousands of pages of documents, NHL emails, internal memos, meeting minutes, correspondence, put into the public eye.
That's not easier for you to do, but we do these, even though they're hard, because they're important to the public good. I think we're making the game better. And in a way, one would hope that, you know, instead of looking at it as an attack and, oh, well, you're just trying to change, and we're fine, and the game, you know, hockey or whatever sport you want to pick you, it doesn't need you. It doesn't need doctors. You know, we've got this in hand. Well, why not look at it the other way? Hey, because of the reporting right now, even though it might make us uncomfortable, ultimately it's going to make our game safer. Hopefully it's going to encourage parents to keep putting their kids into sports like ours, and gain public trust by being open about it. And maybe it'll even help us change and be safer.
So instead of…You know, one of the stories that comes to mind on this is back in roughly 2013, the president of the Canadian medical association wrote an open letter to the NHL encouraging the league to do better when it came to treating players who had suffered brain injuries. And the emails kind of ping-ponged around NHL head office, and they wound up going to a lawyer named Julie Grand. And she asked Frank Brown, who was in the PR department at the time, a former hockey reporter for the New York Daily News, to address this. And so Frank Brown responded to Julie Grand in an email, and he wrote that – and I'm paraphrasing – he wrote that he was going to watch Hockey Day in Canada coming up over the Christmas break, and that presented the perfect white noise to write a response to imbecilic doctors, dumbasses like this president of the Canadian medical association, who should just keep their nose out of the NHL’s business.
How could you talk like that about the president of the Canadian medical association, who wants you to do better caring for brain injured players? It's not just the players, of course, who suffer when they have brain injuries. Their spouses, their children, their parents, these are injuries that impact families. And the idea that people like Frank Brown, or former hockey players who are now in management positions at the NHL, that they know best on how to treat, you know, post concussive syndrome or brain injury issues or set policies for drug addiction issues? Come on. Is there anyone who buys that?
Shireen: On this note, I think this is a really important point you bring up, but I'm wondering about the topics you're discussing right now. We're hearing a lot of words like, “there's a seismic shift in hockey,” and that there's a “reckoning.” Do you actually feel that that's a thing? Do you feel that there's a reckoning now in hockey? When, I will be very frank with you, how can there be a reckoning when there's no recognition? I watched after the interview, the presser that Gary Bettman, commissioner – current and only ever commissioner – of the NHL, his comments when asked about whether he would provide counseling for survivors of abuse. And he said he would have to know more. Also, I'm paraphrasing loosely. Like, do you actually think there's a reckoning when the head of the league is saying vacuous things like this?
Rick: Well, I mean, how do we know if people are sincere or not, Shireen? How do we know? We need to look at what they’re–
Shireen: Gary Bettman, though? [laughs]
Rick: We need to look at what their actions are, right? People, in moments like this, say all the right things. Well, what are their deeds? So let's look historically at the NHL, and hockey in general, and sports in general. Sheldon Kennedy came out with his abuse, you know, saying that he was abused by his former junior hockey coach, Graham James. No one believed him. “How could that happen, Sheldon? You're a professional hockey player. You're a big guy. Graham's a portly, middle-aged dude. There's no chance that he would be able to take advantage of you like that.” And after the conviction, there was a moment of reckoning. “Never again.” We have to fix it so this does not happen again to players like Sheldon or Theoren Fleury.
Has it been fixed in the last 20 years? I mean, every day we're reading about new scandals, about new abuse allegations, in every sport across the world. And so to say, well, is this a moment of reckoning or not? I actually think it's a little bit naive to say that. How can you? How can you unpack that so quickly? We need to see what actually happens and see what the concrete actions are before we can make that kind of a judgment or not. I hope it is. You know, talking to Kyle Beach was one of the hardest interviews I've ever done in my life. And he deserves better, because the reason that he's doing this, that he's talking publicly
And you guys, for anyone who hasn't heard the interview with Kyle, TSN has opened up the rights on this interview. Anyone can run this. Please, do it. Our competitor, Sportsnet, ran our interview with Kyle, because for the greater good people need to hear his message. But moving forward, the reason he's doing this is to effect change. And so if change doesn't happen, then what's it been for? Why go through the pain of this, of putting yourself out there? So I'm really hopeful that if leagues don't have the courage of their convictions to do this on their own, that the public pressure will be maintained and they'll be forced to change.
Shireen: And I know that for you – and I can say this with confidence – that it wasn't about the clicks. You're not a person who does things for likes or retweets. This was about disseminating information. So what do you think the public's responsibility is here, the fans, or the community, before…I just want to touch upon that. Like you said, you want eyes on this, because accountability comes from this. And that's something that I feel has been lacking. And also, this whole idea of men just resigning their positions – that’s not accountability, that's walking away from the fucking problem. Like, what? I know you don't have all the answers, but I'm just saying, it's so frustrating. It's like the cycle continues. They step away. They don't rectify, they don't hold themselves to account, but what can the public do? What can our listeners do?
Rick: This is still so fresh. I wish I had something smart and insightful to offer on that. I don't know. Where does the NHL…I think one of the pressure points, maybe the only pressure point for a professional league, is money. And so where do the NHL and other leagues get their cash? They get it from broadcasting rights, they get it from sponsorship deals. And so maybe the best route to the NHL isn't actually through the NHL. Maybe it's the public making the connection between the sponsors of the NHL and the teams and league, and pushing them to hold the NHL to account.
You know, yesterday for instance, we heard Gary Bettman say that the NHL has an anonymous reporting hotline for abuse. Who oversees it? The NHL. What kind of transparency is there? None. You know, Bettman was asked whether Sheldon Kennedy might be brought in to give counsel. Sheldon's a hero. He’s committed the last 20 years of his life since he came forward with his abuse to making sports and schools and companies safer. And what was the NHL’s reaction when it was suggested that Sheldon might have something to offer to the conversation? Gary Bettman literally said that Sheldon's abuse wasn't at the NHL level. Like, you almost can't believe what you're hearing.
Shireen: So my next question is about you. And we ask this of people that do this kind of work, that come on Burn It All Down, because this is hard. And it's necessary. And there's not a lot of people out there doing this kind of work. How are you managing?
Rick: It's been a hard year, you know? My family's navigated a personal crisis. My son was diagnosed with cancer last year. And so at the same time as I've been trying to build a trust in this situation, I've also been learning the language of cancer, learning about, you know, all the various forms of chemotherapy, its impact on a young body, mentally and physically. The psychological challenges that have come with that. So, it's been a tough year. You know, there's not much more to say about it than that. And how am I managing? I'm here talking to you. I know we're talking about it.
One of the things I hear a lot is, you know, “You do negative stories.” These are “negative” pieces. I really don't look at it like that. What a privilege it is, an absolute privilege, for someone like Kyle to say I want to talk publicly. I want to be identified. I want to share what this has done to me and to my family. Imagine you're the journalist, and he picks you to tell that story? Is there a bigger badge of honor than that? And so I don't see these as negative stories. I see these as stories where we are literally giving a voice to someone who has felt abandoned and neglected and destroyed. And we're holding organizations that are powerful accountable. I'm pretty good doing that.
Shireen: Yeah. You're not bad at it, Rick. [laughs] No, I talk to you about this all the time. The duty and that sense of obligation and trust that you have with people when they choose you, like, is something that is inexplicable. It's like this sense of…Absolutely what you said. It's an honor to be able to do it, because there's not a lot of people that do it. One of the things I was going to say is that what ends up happening – and you know this – is that the deluge of, when the story comes out, more people. And you've tweeted often that your DMs are open. And does that mean that you get more than 90 minutes’ sleep a night? Or are you going to close the laptop, turn off the phone…?
Rick: I try to turn it all off. You know, one of the things I do, even with my kid, is take away electronics at night. And he tells me, you're the only dad, you're the only family, no one else has to do this. This is ridiculous. And I'm like, yeah, but this is our house. So this is what we're going to do. But like every night at nine o'clock, this 15 year old kid is forced to give us all of his electronics, his phone, his laptop…You know, he had an iPad that I found, he had it hidden, but I routed it out. [Shireen laughs] And all the electronics go up into our room, because I don't think it's healthy for anybody – him, me, anyone else – to be spending the last moments of their day looking at Twitter or emails or whatever else. And so I try to follow through with myself on what I forced my son to do, which is turn it all off. You know, let your mind think about Lego or playing outside or what you're going to do on the weekend or anything but technology. We know how addictive this is, and we know that it's built to be addictive. Like, what are some people not getting about that? It's not healthy to be on social media every day. So I absolutely do unplug, and just kind of get away from it pretty regularly.
Shireen: I will send you my most recent cat TikTok though, because I know you'll be very invested in that. [laughs]
Rick: What’s TikTok?
Shireen: It's a really cute video of me and my cat, is essentially what I'm going to send you.
Rick: It sounds too much for me. I'm just discovering the Twitter and how to do that properly.
Shireen: But don't worry. I would love…I think it would be so great if you and I do a TikTok, a dancing one, together. Because it's so up your alley.
Rick: I have no idea what you're saying right now.
Shireen: I know. You know what? I think actually your wife would probably be more into it than you. This is what I think. But anyways, I think it would be amazing if the serious, serious, very prickly Rick Westhead does a dancing TikTok with Shireen Ahmed.
Rick: What, prickly? [Shireen laughs] Where did that come from? When in the last 40 minutes have I been prickly?
Shireen: No, with me! I think you're delightful. I'm just saying, you're the guy that I said nobody wants you in their email inbox. That's literally you.
Rick: I think that's literally not true. [Shireen laughs] I think there's lots of people that like to hear from me.
Shireen: If I'm a commissioner of a league or a team owner, I don't want to hear it from you!
Rick: Okay. So for the four people or five people who are commissioners of leagues, and for the few hundred people who are billionaires and own teams, if they don't like getting my emails, I'm okay with that. I can accept that. But I still don't actually accept that that's true because I still have friends who work in leagues and for teams high up and, you know, even though they're not publicly saying, “Yeah, go get ‘em,” I think that they see…They’ve got children. They see that this is noble work.
Shireen: Yeah, no, that’s awesome. Getting back to the point of this, and the connection to journalism, if you don't ask these questions, they don't get answered. And that dirty laundry that really needs to be aired out doesn’t, and then change doesn't happen. So we're part of a...You know, the questions I had about what can fan community bases do? Sports is like three pronged, in my opinion. There’s the media, there's the fans, and then there's the athletes. And then working together…And you're a huge part of that machine that's helping. So, I, for one, thank you. Because I learn from you all the time. Where can our listeners find you, though? I know you don't love being on Twitter all the time, but where can we find your work?
Rick: On TSN. So, either on the broadcast or online at TSN, or on occasion on our kind of cousin station CTV. I do work for CTV national news and for W5, the news magazine program there.
Shireen: And soon on TikTok. We’re going to get you a TikTok or Snapchat account, Rick. That's what's going to happen.
Rick: I don't have a lot to say about that. [Shireen laughs] I mean, didn't we just talk…Didn’t we literally just talk about being on social media too much?
Shireen: [laughs] No, but we'll keep it to a minimum. It's like 15 second videos. We can use like Justin Bieber music. It’ll be great.
Rick: But it's not just…It’s not just a 15 second video, because you're going to want to do it a hundred times to get the right 15 second video. Am I wrong?
Shireen: You’re totally right. Well, the choreography has to be perfect.
Rick: So what you're asking me to do now is make a major investment in adding a new app to my phone and learning new technology, and then dancing a hundred times or more to do a 15 second cat video or something like that, so that I can see how many likes I get for that video.
Shireen: No, no. It's not for the likes. It's for a collaboration of incredible magnitude with me. That's what it is.
Rick: I think you need to work on your sell job a bit better.
Shireen: [laughs] You know I'm terrible at marketing. Again, I want to thank you so much for doing this, and me and the entire team at Burn It All Down wish you and your family a lot of health, happiness, and peace, because this work is really hard and you're nailing it. But also specifically to you, I mean, you have taught a lot of people a lot in a very short amount of time, and people are listening. And I teach journalism, and it's basically been…This has been a masterclass in how to be good at what you do, and you have provided that. So, I thank you from that perspective also.
Rick: Oh, what a kind compliment. Thank you.
Shireen: Well, I'll say nicer things when you do this video with me, this TikTok. But anyways.
Rick: Like I said, thank you. [Shireen laughs]
Rick: Kyle, thank you very much for joining us to talk about this. Just to start off, Kyle, yesterday was a momentous day, a day of reckoning. Can you walk us through how you were feeling when you were watching Reid Schar – the lawyer for Jenner & Block – read out some of the findings from his investigation into the Blackhawks?
Kyle: Thanks for having me, Rick, and thank you for all you’ve done throughout this process since it first became public knowledge. Without you and your reporting, I’m not sure if we would be here today, so I wanted to thank you first. Yesterday was a day of many emotions. I cried, I smiled, I laughed, I cried some more. And my girlfriend and I, we didn’t know how to feel. We didn’t know how to think. We just held each other and supported each other. She’s been my rock from the very beginning of this process, and I’m very fortunate to have her here and to be able to lean on her and rely on her to help on those tough days.
I don’t think that I or we could have ever imagined what would have come out of yesterday’s press conference. And following it, just a great feeling of relief and vindication, and it was no longer my word against everybody else’s, because a lot of things were made public, a lot of people were interviewed. And I really felt like there was a lot of lies told in the media. And it was very special and important to me to have that truth come out yesterday.
Rick: Can you just, for people who aren’t following European hockey, can you tell us a little bit about where you are now and who you’re playing with?
Kyle: I’m playing in Germany right now in a city called Erfurt for the Black Dragons. It’s a small club in the third league in Germany. But they treat it like a family, we’re treated very, very well. The management, they’re very very open, and they do absolutely everything they can for us to make us feel safe, included. And that’s something that I really appreciate with where I am in my career right now.
Rick: I hope we can go back and talk this through chronologically. Of course, we have viewers of all ages who are watching right now, and so maybe we’ll avoid getting into graphic details. For those of us who are interested, the Jenner & Block report is public and it’s on their website. But in general terms, can you take us back to May of 2010, and just explain a little bit about what it was like to be called up to the Blackhawks as a Black Ace in the first place?
Kyle: So, 2010, I finished my junior season with the Spokane Chiefs, and I was originally recalled to the Rockford Ice Hogs of the AHL. And following our conclusion there – I believe we lost in the first round of the playoffs – several of us were recalled to the Blackhawks as Black Aces. I think anytime you get that phone call, you’re going up, whether it’s to play or to be a practice player. But to be a part of that for the first time, besides the training camp, it was an extremely special moment for me and for my family, and kind of the next step for me pursuing my NHL dream that I dreamed about and worked for my entire life. So, unfortunately, a couple of weeks after, those memories were tainted and my life was changed forever.
Rick: Coming out of those moments when the abuse took place, I can’t imagine what the subsequent days were like. Before we get to how it’s affected you over the last 11 years, what was it like in the days immediately after? Confusion? What were some of the emotions you were feeling?
Kyle: To be honest, I was scared mostly. I was fearful. I had had my career threatened. I felt alone and dark. Sorry, it’s tough to recall these moments. I felt like I was alone and there was nothing I could do and nobody I could turn to for help. And I didn’t know what to do. As a 20-year-old, I would never dream, or you could never imagine being put in this situation by somebody that's supposed to be there to help you and to make you a better hockey player and a better person and continue to build your career. Just scared and alone with no idea of what to do.
Rick: Who was the first person you told about this?
Kyle: The first person I mentioned it to was Paul Vincent in a San Jose hotel when we were traveling with the team. Paul Vincent’s an amazing man and I’ve seen everything that he’s done since this has come out public as well. I don’t have the words to express my appreciation for Paul. He tried to do everything he could back then, and when this came to public light he stood his ground and spoke his truth. It’s men like him that make hockey great. And if you talk to anybody from the Boston area…I was flown out to Boston as a prospect after I was drafted to work with Paul, and ever since then we’ve had a great relationship and I always loved working with Paul. He’s probably the most highly regarded skills coach there is in the Boston area. And not only the Boston area, but the hockey world.
Rick: Kyle, when did you tell your family about this? And how much did you tell them, and what was their reaction?
Kyle: I don’t remember exactly when I told them. It was shortly after it had happened, in the summer. My mom cried for days. She felt responsible. She felt like she should have protected me. And there was nothing could do. And after that first conversation with them, we never spoke about it again until very recently. I never brought it up and they respected my privacy. They would ask if I was okay and let me talk about what I wanted to talk about. I did what I thought I had to do to survive, to continue chasing my dream, and it was to not think about it, to not talk about it, to ignore it. And that’s all I could do, because I was threatened and my career was on the line. And if I had that in my head, there was no way I was gonna be able to perform at the top of my capabilities.
Rick: After management was told about what had happened, Brad Aldrich remained with the team for weeks. What was that like, watching him on a daily basis interact with the team? Seeing him at the parade? Getting a Stanley Cup ring later that summer? Having a day with the Stanley Cup?
Kyle: To be honest, Rick, I think the only way I could describe it is that I felt sick. I felt sick to my stomach. I reported this, and I was made aware that it made it all the way up the chain of command by Doc Gary, and nothing happened. It was like his life was the same as it was the day before. It was the same every day. And then when they won, to see him paraded around, lifting the Cup at the parade, at the team pictures, at celebrations, it made me feel like nothing. It made me feel like I didn’t exist. It made me feel that I wasn’t important, and it made me feel like he was in the right and I was wrong. And that’s also what Doc Gary told me, was that it was my fault because I put myself in that situation. And the combination of these and him being paraded around, them letting him take the Stanley Cup to a high school with kids after they knew what had happened…There’re not words to describe it, Rick. There really isn’t.
Rick: Doc Gary is of course Jim Gary, the Blackhawks’ mental skills coach and councillor at the time. Kyle, you’ve carried this for 11 years, and I don’t even know if it’s possible to put into words the impact it’s had on you. Can you try?
Kyle: To be honest, Rick, I’m just beginning that process. I suppressed this memory and buried this memory to chase my dreams and pursue the career that I loved, and the game that I love, of hockey. And the healing process is just beginning and yesterday was a huge step in that process. But until very recently I did not talk about it. I did not discuss it. I didn’t think about it. But now that I’m beginning to heal and I’m beginning to look back, it definitely had impacts on my life. I did stupid things. I acted out. I snapped. I did things that I never could imagine doing. I relied on alcohol, I relied on drugs, and…I’m just so relieved with the news that came out yesterday that I’ve been vindicated, and I can truly begin the healing process.
Rick: Kyle, I want to talk about that healing process in a second. Court documents show that you’ve said that some of your teammates after the fact started using homophobic slurs. For legal reasons, we won’t name names, but how often was that happening and how frequently was it happening? Where was it happening? And how soon after the assault was that happening?
Kyle: Word spread pretty quick. I do believe that everyone in that locker room knew about it, because the comments were made in the locker room. They were made on the ice. They were made around the arena, with all different people of all different backgrounds – players, staff, media in the presence.
Rick: So, when Nick Boynton and Brent Sopel say everybody knew in that locker room, you think they were telling the truth?
Kyle: I 100% believe both of them, and I haven’t spoken to either of them since the last time I would have ran into them at a training camp. I do not know them, I do not have a personal relationship with them, I do not have their phone numbers, I have not spoken to them. So for them to come forward, to corroborate the story, I owe them a huge thank you – as I do Paul Vincent, yourself, and many, many others. John Torchetti, my family, and friends for supporting me, my girlfriend Bianca for being there for me every single day. Because reliving this and having to dig back to those memories for the investigation, for the lawsuit, having to tell my story over and over has not been easy. It’s been the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through.
But at the same time, it’s a huge step, I realize now, in the healing process. But for those individuals who came forward early on with absolutely nothing to gain, they’re heroes to me. They really are. Because when I was alone and I was afraid and I was scared, I didn’t think I could turn to anyone. Even when this first came out, the Blackhawks denied it. They said they did an investigation. They said my claims were “meritless.” To me, I took that as them saying to the world that I was a liar, that I was lying. And to have these individuals like Paul Vincent and Nick Boynton and Torchetti and Sopel come forward, then I knew I wasn’t alone. And I could never thank them enough for doing that, because it gave me the strength to continue forward with this.
Rick: Kyle, why come forward now? Putting your name out there, being on television – this is a big decision. I wonder what your thought process was leading up to this point, and why you want to do this.
Kyle: It’s been a…It’s a big step for me in my process of recovery, as I process the events that happened, and as I truly deal with the underlying issues that I have from them. For me, I wanted to come forward and put my name on this, partially…I’ll be honest, it’s already out there. The details were pretty accurate in the report, and it’s been figured out. But more than that, I’ve been a survivor, I am a survivor. And I know I’m not alone. I know I’m not the only one, male or female. And I buried this for 10 years, 11 years. And it’s destroyed me from the inside out. And I want everybody to know in the sports world and in the world that you’re not alone, that if these things happen to you, you need to speak up. Because there is support systems.
Like Sheldon Kennedy, like the US gymnastics team, like USA Soccer, there is support systems. There is people that are with you. And I hope that this entire process can make a systematic change to make sure this never happens again, because it not only affected me as a young adult and now as a 31-year-old man, but it also affected kids because it was not handled in a proper way.
Rick: When Brad Aldrich did leave the Blackhawks in the summer of 2010, he went on to work for the US Hockey national program, actually, as well as Miami University in Ohio. And then in 2013, he wound up in Houghton, Michigan where he sexually assaulted a 16 year old high school player. And I wonder, if that player is watching now, what your message to him is?
Kyle: I’m sorry. I’m sorry I didn’t do more when I could, to make sure it didn’t happen to him, to protect him. But I also wanted to say thank you to him, because when I decided, after a teammate asked me about it, when I was playing overseas, and I decided to Google Brad Aldrich’s name, that’s when I found out about the Michigan individual, the Michigan team. And because of what happened to him, it gave me the power and the sense of urgency to take action, to make sure it wouldn’t happen to anybody else. So I’m sorry, and I thank you. And I hope at some point down the road, if he’s open to it, I would love to meet him, because unfortunately we share something in common that’s going to be a part of us for the rest of our lives.
Rick: Kyle, yesterday Stan Bowman left the Blackhawks organization. And Al MacIsaac, the vice president of hockey operations, did as well. Joel Quenneville is still the coach in Florida. What kind of accountability is needed now from others who knew about what happened and didn’t do anything about it?
Kyle: I think that the step the Blackhawks took yesterday is a great step in the right direction. They accepted accountability and they took actions necessary, albeit too late. And the denials until yesterday…I commend them for what they did. Part of this process – I’m not sure when it was, three or four months ago – the NHL denied an investigation. They wanted nothing to do with it, they didn’t want to touch it. US SafeSport also denied doing an investigation. Now, in statements that came out in the release, Stan Bowman has quoted Joel Quenneville, saying – and this is not a quote, this is my words – but saying that the Stanley Cup playoffs and trying to win a Stanley Cup was more important than sexual assault. And I can’t believe that. As a human being, I cannot believe that, and I cannot accept that. I’ve witnessed meetings, right after I reported it to James Gary, that were held in Joel Quenneville’s office. There’s absolutely no way that he can deny knowing it, and there’s absolutely no way that Stan Bowman would make up a quote like that to somebody who served his organization and his team so well.
Rick: Kyle, where do you go from here? You’ve now talked publicly about this. Do you have any sense for how…And you’ve talked about how this will affect you for the rest of your life. How do you take something so horrible and try to find something positive in that? Whether it’s serving the public or reaching out to other abuse survivors, have you thought about where you go from here?
Kyle: To be honest, I haven’t had the chance. This is all so fresh. But the one thing that I want to make sure comes from this is change. I want to make sure in any way possible that this does not happen to somebody else. Because it will happen again. I will not be the only one. Whether it’s in hockey, soccer, any sport, any business, any company, there needs to be a system in place that it gets dealt with, and that it’s somebody making the decision to deal with it that has no skin in the game. Because if this had been reported to someone other than John McDonough or Joel Quenneville or Stan Bowman that didn’t have skin in the game of winning a Stanley Cup, it would have been dealt with and it would have protected all of the survivors that came after me.
So, I would love to be able to help. I would love to be able to advocate. I would love to be able to support survivors in coming out, in coming forward. I’d love to be there in any way possible. And I would love to be a part of a group that really comes up and designs a system to make sure that there is a safe place in the sports world and that there’s a safe place that every child or adult, male or female, can go if they’re in trouble or if they feel uncomfortable, where they won’t be judged and they won’t have to go through what I did.
Rick: Kyle, my last question for now: the NHL says that Gary Bettman will meet with Cheveldayoff, the Winnipeg general manager; and Joel Quenneville, the head coach in Florida still, to talk about this. What is your message to Gary Bettman and the NHL about what the right thing to do would be?
Kyle: The NHL is inclusive. The NHL includes everybody. And they let me down, and they’ve let down others as well. But they continue to try and protect their name over the health and the well-being of the people that put their lives on the line every day to make the NHL what it is. I hope through and through that Gary Bettman takes this seriously, and that he does his due diligence, that he talks to not only them but Stan Bowman, John McDonough, and anybody else that has information to offer before he makes his decision. Because they already let me down. They wouldn’t investigate for me, so why would they now?
Rick: I suppose it should also be pointed out that, according to the report, that on multiple occasions, Don Fehr – the executive director of the NHL Players’ Association – was also made aware of concerns about Brad Aldrich’s misconduct and promised people to investigate, and didn’t. So would you hold him to the same standard?
Kyle: Absolutely I would. He represents the players. I don’t know where I fall under the NHLPA. I never played games other than preseason. But I was on an NHL roster when this happened, albeit as a Black Ace. I know I reported every single detail to an individual at the NHLPA, who I was put in contact with after, I believe, two different people talked to Don Fehr. And for him to turn his back on the players when his one job is to protect the players at all costs…I don’t know how that can be your leader. I don’t know how he can be in charge. If that’s what he’s going to do when a player comes to you and tells you something, whether it be abuse, whether it be drugs, whether it be anything. He’s supposed to have the players’ backs, and they definitely didn’t have mine.
Rick: Kyle, listen, I know we’re going to talk again soon, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being open and honest and raw with your story to this point, and thank you for your trust. And I hope other people who are watching will really listen to some of the messages that you’ve said just now.