Interview: Sam Coffey of the Portland Thorns and Ellie Jean of Gotham FC, on their Rookie NWSL Seasons
In this episode, Amira Rose Davis interviews her former students, Ellie Jean of Gotham FC and Sam Coffey of the Portland Thorns, about their first season in the NWSL. They also talk about how their college journey impacted who they are now and their goals for the future.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Amira: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the sports podcast you need. Hey, flamethrowers, Amira here. I am so, so excited for the conversation I'm about to have, because I called up two of my favorite people in the world, Ellie Jean and Sam Coffey, to wrap up this NWSL season. We are recording it before playoffs start, but the regular season is over, and I wanted to check in on them about their first year in the NWSL. And it has been a wild year, what year to come into this league. We've had historic CBAs in women's soccer that has changed from the federation level to the NWSL. Of course, the Yates report just dropped. There's a lot of things happening, and it is a wild time to start your career in this league.
So I wanted to welcome Ellie back to the show and welcome Sam to the show so we could talk about, you know, being a professional soccer player, because I remember when they were just not. [laughs] They were so adorable, and now they're grown. You are all…You were adorable amateurs. And now you're like super grown. And part of the reason why I'm super excited about this…And you know, everybody who listens to this show knows how much I love you guys and how much I am a fan of y’all, and always have been. But it's been so exciting to watch your individual journeys, and really sweet this year to watch them crisscross – even though you managed to avoid playing each other all year, which is something [laughs] that I feel way about. So anyways, welcome to Burn It All Down.
Ellie: Thank you! I'm so excited to be here.
Sam: Thank you. I am too! I can't wait to chat with you guys.
Ellie: It's such a weird, like, not full circle, but like reunion, I guess.
Amira: Yeah. It is.
Ellie: Because it's just so funny. I don't know. Because Sam, we like haven't caught up in a second. We're kind of texting on and off all the time, but we haven't talked like face to face in so long.
Sam: Yeah. Well, and I just hadn't seen you in like years, up until like when we came to New Jersey, like, that was the first time I had seen you I think in like two years, I think. Because you were–
Amira: Abroad, being a professional.
Sam: Yeah. Yeah. And then I was still at Penn State, so, I know. It really is full circle.
Amira: But like, years work funny, because you know, in my head I see you all together, and then like Ellie graduated, and then also there was a whole pandemic. But like, the transition between college and playing professionally just is so swift, and like, maybe we'll start there. So Ellie, you left and you went overseas, and so you were playing professionally. You played for PSV. You had a wonderful experience at times, and also learned a lot of lessons. And so you're coming into the NWSL as a player who's played professionally before, but getting to come home, getting to play for Gotham. How has it been to transition back to the States and to be in this chapter of your journey?
Ellie: Yeah, I mean, it's been so much fun. I think this year had a ton of ups and downs obviously, but I was super excited to come back to the league and just to be back home. Gotham was the closest that I can be to Connecticut, and now my parents are in Rhode Island, so the closest I can be to them in Rhode Island. And it was just so nice to be back in a familiar place. And even going into Gotham, like, I didn't know how the girls were gonna treat me because I wasn't a rookie, but it was still like my rookie season. And so I was like, god, where am I gonna fit in, kind of, because I'm not a new professional but I'm new to the league. And I just didn't really know how I was gonna be received, but like the girls were outstanding, like, so welcoming and so encouraging, which I'm really grateful for. And I was actually surprised about.
I don't know why, but…I don't know. You just always think it's gonna be such like a cutthroat, I don't know, harsh culture and there is that aspect of it. But then there's also like the aspect where it's like you make your best friends in this league and you make lifelong friends when you're playing with people. So, that was awesome to feel, because I didn’t get that vibe overseas as much. Like, the culture is just so different. So like, coming back to Gotham and the encouragement on the field, like, I had missed that so much, because it's just not a thing.
Amira: Yeah. And you had to learn so much because you were learning how to be a professional and you didn't speak the language and you were in a completely new country. Like, there's a lot.
Ellie: And during COVID. There were so many layers to it. But yeah, I think I'm really happy that I went overseas and then came back, because I just think there were so many lessons that I learned about myself throughout that time that like I can now apply here in this league, where I don't think I would've learned. Or maybe I would've learned them, but just in a different way if I had just come straight into the NWSL. And then also, I have such good friends that I made in the Netherlands. Like, I actually just booked a ticket this morning to go to the Netherlands in November to see them.
Amira: Aw! Oh, I love that.
Ellie: Yeah. So I'm so excited to see them, and we've kept in touch. So, that's really exciting for me. And now I have friends all over the world. Like one of my good friends, Amy Harrison, she's back in Australia playing. So if I ever wanna go to Australia and see her, that's an option. So, I don't know, I just think those things that transcend beyond like the soccer field and just the game of soccer are also so important and something that I really value out of playing.
Amira: Absolutely. And Sam, you didn't have the most smooth transition either because of this pandemic. So you were drafted, and then you had the weird spring season, and then chose to delay entering–
Sam: [laughs] Yeah. It was fake.
Amira: [laughs] It was like a fever dream. Like, I'm not sure it happened. I just remember…I talk on the show all the time about the peacock. Whose peacock was it? Jordan…
Sam: Oh, oh, her bird.
Amira: Her bird. Ellie, you don't understand. So like, it was lockdown. Nobody could come to their games, but I could come to their games, because I'm special. [Sam laughs] And so, it's the most ridiculous thing. And so all I remember about that spring season is like, being in these stands–
Sam: With the birds.
Amira: With the parrot!
Sam: And the bird is on a leash. It's a parrot. It’s a parrot is on a leash.
Amira: And the parrot is on a leash.
Sam: I actually, I literally remember like in the spring, I had…I was like in class or something on Zoom, and she comes up into my room and is holding this leash and I'm like…And I look down and there's literally a parrot at the end of it. And I'm like, what is this?
Amira: I have a picture of it. I think about this all the time. So when I think about that wild spring season, it's like that is the mascot.
Sam: That's what comes to mind. Yeah. That is the mascot. Yeah. That's actually a great depiction.
Amira: Right? Thank you. And then you chose to delay, and to have a fall season, and then you like hit the ground running, Miss I'm Nominated To Be Rookie Of The Year. How has it been? I mean, hello. You're doing it. So, how has it been to be a rookie proper?
Sam: Yeah, I think…I mean, I'm having lots of fun, but I could never have imagined it going this way. I guess that year, like, leading up into leaving Penn State and the draft, like you talked about, Amira, and the spring season, and the fall season, it was just craziness and just so wild. And like, I never knew what was gonna happen the next day. But again, now that I'm here and I'm in this position and now that we're kind of nearing the end, I think about that year retrospectively, and I'm like, it actually just really set me up in such a unique and cool way. Like, I almost had a year long season in college, which like never happens. Because we played in the spring, we had a couple months, and then we played again. And so like, that was so reflective of kind of how the pro game goes. And it was, it was absolutely wild.
Like, there were days where, you know, I didn't know what was happening or what was gonna happen next. Obviously like making the decision whether or not to stay at Penn State or to go pro, like, I didn't even know I was gonna be a part of the draft til like four, five days before. Literally coach was like, hey, just a heads up, you might be called, you might not. I don't really know what's happening. They don't have enough names in the draft, so like, any college senior is eligible. I was like, what? [laughs] I was like, I didn't put my name in. She's like, yep, doesn't matter. Like, you're eligible. I was like, okay, sounds good. I'll be watching, I guess. And yeah, sure enough, Portland called my name, and then it was kind of like, okay, what does this information mean and how do I go from here?
Because I knew I wanted a final season at Penn State, because our senior season got canceled because of COVID and everything got disrupted, as the world did in general. I think through so many conversations and the support of like all those around me, I think staying that technically fifth year and final fall season at Penn State was just the best possible decision to set me up for success in the league. And yeah, I just love Portland and I love the team, I love our staff. You know, obviously the past few weeks have been quite chaotic, but it is a place that I really love coming into every day and I feel supported and loved here. And obviously, like, I just feel like I'm being developed every day and poured into, and I think that's such a gift. And you know, I feel grateful to be in an environment where I'm around some of the best in the world every single day, both from a coaching and player perspective. Like, it's so unique.
And sometimes I will just look around me and I’m like, these people are really your teammates. Like, I think if you told yourself this even a year ago, like I'd be like, what? Like, I'm in the locker room with Becky and Crystal and Sincy? Like, it's wild. They're my friends and I love them and they're amazing. And they've just all, kinda like you said Ellie, I was like, how's it gonna be? You hear such crazy stories about the pros and like, I feel like…I don't know, like in college too, you just hear like, it's not the same as college, they're not gonna like love you as much. Like, it's a business, all this stuff. And like, yeah, those things are true. It is a business. But I think my experience too has been similar to Ellie's where I've just been kind of welcomed with open arms and supported and encouraged by the people around me. And that is such a gift, and gives me such confidence and makes me feel so blessed to be here.
Amira: That's wonderful. And I mean, Ellie's talked about this, like playing with Ali. You know, it's surreal in many ways. I mean, I had both of you in class when we would be analyzing the people you're playing with now, and that's wild, right? How has your soccer, how has your game actually shifted? Sam, you're playing in…I remember the struggle of when injury in college forced you to play, you know, back more. And now it's like you're not playing where you thought you would always play. Ellie, Sam, thinking about your transition into the league, how has your game changed?
Ellie: Yeah, I think that…I mean, even overseas, you almost just have to like put yourself in these positions and like from there you adjust and you grow and you learn. Like, I think even that like has been so helpful. And then, yeah, coming back to this league and like having Ashlyn like screaming in my ear every day, that's certainly helped me figure out like the standards of this league and what's expected of me. But I think, again, it just comes down to I'm literally just watching the players that I've been looking up to for the past 10 years. Like, I'm watching everything that Ali's doing in training. Like, how does she approach training? What is she like in training? Even just little things like that I think are so important, and something that I really wanna try to emulate and pick up as much as I can.
I mean, even McCall, Kristie, Midge, like, all of them, kind of just looking and seeing what are they doing in training? How do they carry themselves? How do they carry themselves in the locker room? Like, that type of stuff I think has been really cool to be able to see up close and firsthand. And then, yeah, from like the game perspective, it’s just so fast and athletic and physical here, which it wasn't in the Netherlands. So like, coming back here, I knew that that was something that I was also good at. Whereas in the Netherlands, it was really tactical, technical. So then coming back here and having it be as fast as it is and as athletic as it is was still an adjustment, even though that's one of my strengths. So I think that just goes to show the next level that it's at, like, regarding college and professionally, like, I don't know. Originally I was like, oh, well maybe it isn't a big jump. And then like you come into it and you're like, okay, it's still a pretty big jump. [laughter]
Sam: Yeah. I echo what you said, Ellie, and I do think, like, from the day I got here, I think I had such an overwhelming sense of how well we were prepared at Penn State.
Ellie: Yeah.
Sam: And just like, I don't know. I literally have like a vivid memory of being out there, like on one of my first days. I’m like, they prepared me for this, for this shit.
Ellie: Yeah.
Sam: [laughs] Like, they prepared me for this shit. And that's mentally, that's technically, tactically, like, just like you said, a mindset approach to training. How the things you say, like the life you speak into the day, to other people. Like, are you showing up and complaining and like sucking the energy out of the room? Or are you like, let's get after it. Let's have a great day. Whatever. And it's a long year and it's hard to do that every day, but like, I think I've just felt overwhelmed by how well we were prepared by our staff, and just by the people and team and program at Penn State. But yeah, like you said, Amira, obviously, I've come into a new position, and it's one that I was [laughs] a little bit cranky about sometimes in college. I didn't wanna play the 6. I was like, I'm a 10, let me go up and create and I wanna pass and score goals and all this stuff! We were just riddled with injuries that year. To be called and, yeah, I had to hold a little bit more.
I remember Ann Cook would…Before every game, we would have a meeting and whatever, we'd watch film and whatnot, and she would kind of give me like a decimal for how high I could go up that game. [Amira laughs] So like, if it was like a really transitional team or something, she'd be like, you're a true six today, but if it was that kind of a team where they sat low or like we could really get them on transition, she's like, you're a 6.8 or like a 7.2. And so like I would have a decimal for every game, and I'm like, ooh! Like, you know, the days that I was like a 7.5, like, it was a great day, you know? But yeah, at first I was like, okay, let's see how this goes. And I don't know if it's just the difference in level in the professional game or me really just coming into myself as a player, but I've never felt like a role has kind of suited my strengths more than playing this one does.
I think both just like from a standpoint of like using my voice and communication and leadership and technical ability, like, passing range. Like, I find such…I don't know. I feel like I found a really cool rhythm playing this role, and it's one where I can kind of like quarterback and really set the tempo and help the team find a rhythm and slow things down when they get chaotic or speed them up when it's time to transition. And I just love it. Like, I love it. And I think it's cool because it is one that I was like, “This is not for me!” And then coming into the difference of play and the pros, and I'm like, wait, this actually kind of suits you perfectly. Like, of course I miss, you know, going up and doing the playmaking things – which I can still do from a different spot on the field and from a different role. But, you know, that point kind of goes to what I said earlier about like that year preparing me so well.
Like, I had to play that six role in the spring, and I think maybe a little bit in the fall too. I can't remember exactly. But I think that's another example of that you're preparing me so well for what would come, and I just had no idea. Because they were a good, like, several weeks, maybe even a couple months where I was playing there, and it definitely looked different. But I think, you know, it is cool to walk into this new role. And I'm still learning about it. And you know, some of my communication, like with our coach here, has been just like…Like, I want you to get a doctorate in the six. Like, I want you to master this. And I love that language. Like, I wanna master it. And I know that there's still so much I still have to learn, and I'm learning every day. And not all of it's there yet, but I think just like developing in it and trying to get that doctorate every day has been a really fun experience.
Amira: And it's such an interesting position to be in, and actually really both of you, to be in your first year in the league, but then also in positions that require you to be leaders on the pitch. And I said to both you in the games that I saw you playing in, it was so great to see how communicative you were and how vocal you were and how much you step into that. And obviously one of the weird transitions is you both were very much doing that work in college, and you were both, you know, had captaincies and you were there, and then you're like moving into a new professional chapter in which you know you're learning things, but at the same time on the pitch have to be those leaders and those emerging leaders. What have you learned about leadership?
Ellie: I think I feel like, again, Sam, I think you made a really good point about how well Penn State did and like that program that Erica runs prepares us like for pros and wanting to continue on this journey. Because like, I even remember…I know you didn't love playing the six, and coach moved me to left back, and I was like, I can't stand this. Like, I'm not as good with my left as I am with my right. And like, for the first year that I was on the left, I was like, this is bull crud, like, da da da da. [Sam laughs] I dunno.
Sam: I remember, I remember. [laughter]
Ellie: Yeah. But then it's almost like the silver linings of like, she made these challenges for us or put these challenges like in our way, and then now I can play on both sides. And like, I just think that's something that's so important, especially in this league now. And like professionally in general. But now like when you're mastering the six, like, you can play anywhere in the middle now. So I don't know. It's just so funny how like initially you can't see how these things are gonna be so helpful, and then they're helpful. And it just goes back to like coach, because she can be like, see, I told you so.
Amira: [laughs] She’s gonna be very happy to hear this.
Sam: They have so many I told you so’s, like, it's actually embarrassing. Like, I can't even look 'em in the eye. [Amira laughs] They’re like, well I told you, I told you. I'm like, I know you're always right! Like, okay. [laughs]
Ellie: And then I feel like even having Kara as our leadership and like more of like our empowerment and team liaison of how we're culture type person, I think like that has just been so helpful for me in this league so far. And just like all of those lessons and all of the things that we talked about in that aspect, I think, especially because my role in this league has been different than any other role I had at Penn State. So, I'm not initially a starting player at the moment. I'm not getting that full 90 that I'm super used to. And now I'm kind of relying on a lot of those skills that I learned with Kara at Penn State again, regarding like, okay, how can I best help the team, even though it's not a role that I'm used to being in? How can I, you know, be at my best and do all the things that I wanna do well while like embracing and still being a good teammate? And x, y, and z.
I think those are just such great life skills that we learned and that like I've been able to carry into this league, because you can still be a leader if you're not playing 90 minutes. And of course you're a leader if you are playing a ton. And you're that kind of influence. But yeah, I found a way within this past year to come off the bench and be super influential and make a statement on the game and try to focus on myself as much as possible, and either who's starting in front of me or, I don't know, trying to really be a team player and really try to embrace that role. And I think in that way, that is a leader as well, as much as the Captain McCall or Ali or Ashlyn. So, yeah, I think that there are so many different types of leaders, but I just think throughout, especially Penn State and having Kara and all of those types of leaders, and that they come in so many different shapes and forms, has helped a lot, and definitely has helped me like embrace this first year in the league.
Sam: Mm-hmm. Should send this to Ronaldo.
Amira: [laughs] Lessons.
Ellie: Yeah. He needs it, for sure.
Sam: [laughs] He needs to hear that, El. Yeah, no, I echo that like completely. And that's actually pretty much exactly what I was gonna say. Obviously like the way that we were reported to as leaders at Penn State, and that development was so formative, and I think I can speak for the both of us when I say, like, I carry that every day. I know you carry that every day. I think for me, being in a role where the six, like, you are right in the middle. You gotta tell people where they gotta be, and you gotta be vocal and you gotta be confident and you have to trust yourself and not shy down from that challenge. And I think that was something at first where I'm like, oh, like I'm just a rookie, and I have Christine Sinclair in front of me, and Becky behind me, and like, I'm gonna tell them what to do? Like, no, no. That is not the way it's gonna go.
But you know, I think they, from the minute I got there, like, just infused this belief in me. And also, I was just continually reminded that, like you said, Ellie, it didn't matter how long I had been there. Like, do I still have so much to learn? Yeah. Like, I'm not walking around like arrogant, or like, I know that I’m right, all this stuff. I owe it to this team and I owe it to myself and I owe it to our club, ultimately, to bring my full self and to be the best leader I can be, no matter how long I've been there. And like you said, I think that can look so different. Like, I don't think you don't have to like be quiet on the field or on the bench or wherever, or feel like you are defined by how long you've been at a certain place in order to start having influence.
I think leadership, at the end of the day, is just like your influence on others. And I think I sell myself short and I think I sell my teammates short if I don't show up every day in my full and authentic self and in my voice and in what I bring. And I know what I bring. And so, why would I not give that to the people around me? And I think that actually is kind of wrong to not bring your full self to the people around you. And so I think just reminding yourself that like, yeah, the amount of time you've been at a place doesn't constitute like the level at which you can have influence. You know, I think, again, I do think you owe it to whatever environment, whatever group, whatever setting you're in, to bring all of you. And if people have an issue with that, that's tough. Like, that's not the best environment you should be in. And thankfully, like, I think I can speak for both of us too, El, like, in my time here with the Thorns, like, they get on me if I don't tell them what to do, or like if I…You know, and I'm like, okay! Like, you believing in me in that way and you encouraging me in that way is so helpful and so formative for me too.
So I just feel so thankful to have these veteran players that are like, yeah, I know you're young. I know you just got here, whatever. But like, tell us what to do. Tell them you're at a position. Like, tell 'em how it is. And I think that openness and that clarity and just that fearlessness of just doing it and doing what the team needs you to do, and that can look like so many different things. Again, like you said, Ellie, I think you can have such a tremendous influence if you're a practice player, if you don't play every game, if you have suffered an injury. Like, we all have influence, and we're all leaders in our own way. And I think we ultimately owe it to the people that we're around every day and to our clubs. And again, whatever setting you're in, to show up and bring that every day.
Amira: Absolutely. So, one of the things that's different from college, Ellie, specifically for you, is like, you're not the only Black player on the team anymore, and you've been doing work with the Black Women's Player Collective. What has it been like to have so much more diversity? And we all know it's not where it needs to be. We know one of the things that is well documented, most recently in the Yates report, is that there's been systemic ways that diversity has been quelled and quashed in the NWSL. And so, organizations like the Black Women's Player Collective has been working on this specifically. There's ongoing conversations, of course. And you have been, you know, right there in the mix this season, and it’s very different from your collegiate experience. How has that been for you?
Ellie: I mean, like, look at these braids. [Amira laughs] I would never. Like, I would never have thought about doing braids before. Like, it never even like crossed my mind.
Sam: I don't think our Penn State team like recognized that you were Black until your final season.
Ellie: Right? I don't know.
Sam: Like they were like, oh, what?
Ellie: I don't think I did either.
Sam: [laughs] I love this for you.
Ellie: But like, my journey and like trying to accept and embrace all of me is obviously ongoing, but like I think being at Gotham, it was just so helpful, having so many Black girls around me. And like, I just haven't had that. And it was even to the point where I was like uncomfortable because I'm so used to being around white people. Like, it was almost like, wow, I feel uncomfortable because I'm usually the only Black person, and now I'm not the only Black person. And now I don't know like how I fit in, because usually I'm the token, like, usually I'm the only one. And then now there's like so many. So it was like, there's so many layers to that, but the girls have been so amazing. And it's so funny, because I always used to hear or obviously used to…Like, you can see on television, stuff like that. Like, you gravitate towards those that look like you. And now at the club like, I find myself gravitating towards them. Like, I don't know, not in a bad way, but like, if we're out and we're warming up and I'm like, oh, who am I gonna talk to, like before warmup. I like gravitate towards the Black girls.
Whereas before, like, I wouldn't have thought that about myself, just because I've identified like as so white. So like, I don't know. That's just been like so fun to like explore and be like, oh my god, like, I'm one of you guys. [laughter] Like, it's so nice. And yeah, they've been so helpful and encouraging. I mean, they're like, you have to get braids, like, how good would you look with braids? And I'm like, wow, I've never thought about that before. And like, am I even Black enough? Like, I remember saying that. I think we were eating dinner and I was like, I've never even thought about that, because I don't feel Black enough. Like, I don't feel like I can pull them off. And I remember Midge specifically pulling me aside at some point and she was like, everybody on this team thinks you're Black. [Amira laughs] Like, you are Black. Like, I don't think of you as another way. You are a Black individual. You can embrace that however you want, da da da da. So like, that was really encouraging. So I was like, okay, like I guess I'll try it.
And yeah, I don't know. I just think we have so much to talk about, like the things that we end up talking about, or like making jokes about. It's just so relatable for us. So, that's been really nice, to have people that I can now all of a sudden relate to and topics that we can all discuss, whereas I'm not the only person like in the room being like, okay, well, this is how I see things from my perspective. Like, it's just been so nice. And yeah, now I can finally say that I have Black friends, which is so weird as well, because I haven't been able to say that, just because the rooms that I've been in, like, I’ve mainly just had white friends. And now it's like, oh my god, I'm hanging out with Ify and Taylor and Mandy, and they're my Black friends. Like, it's just so nice. And yeah, it's allowing me to continue to embrace who I am and accept who I am and continue to figure out how I feel best and most comfortable in my skin and how I can continue to embrace all of me. But yeah, it's just so funny. And I'm so thankful that like I got the opportunity to play at Gotham and with such diversity, and it's just been so helpful for me on my personal journey.
Amira: Yeah. And you just finished Latinx Heritage Month.
Ellie: Oh, yep. And I'm Latina as well. Yep. I forgot about that one. [Amira laughs]
Sam: I love it. I love it.
Ellie: I know. Well then, because they…
Sam: You are!
Ellie: I am! Like, I know, but like, I forget. [Amira laughs] And like, not that I forget, but like, I'm Latina and I'm Black and I'm like, there’s–
Sam: The things Pennsylvania will do to a woman. [Amira laughs]
Ellie: Right!
Sam: The things Pennsylvania will do.
Ellie: Yeah. State College, Pennsylvania, specifically. No, but like, because then they're like, oh, we wanna interview you for like Hispanic Heritage Month. And I was like, oh really? And I was like, yeah, I know I'm Dominican, but like, I don't speak the language. I really don't know a ton about my culture. Like, me and my dad, our relationship has been great and we've been building a lot over the years, but like, it hasn't always been like that. So like, I was so nervous going into the interview, because I was like, I'm not Hispanic. Like, I don't feel Hispanic. I might be Hispanic, but like, I don't necessarily feel it at the moment. Because I was like, what are they gonna ask me? And then they're asking, like, oh, what kind of traditions do you do? Or like, what's your culture like? What type of role models did you look up to? And I was like, nobody. I have none.
But I also think that then, like then I was realizing, I was like, okay, it's just that important, that like, I can be like, oh, like, I don't really know, and I'm now trying to figure out this new identity, because I can't imagine how many other people are probably feeling the same way too. And it's like, just because maybe I don't feel that way doesn't mean I'm not that and can’t embrace however, where I'm at the moment as that. And yeah, it's just been like such an interesting journey. And then yeah, I'm like, oh yeah, like, I am Hispanic, and like, just because I don't speak Spanish doesn't mean I'm not Hispanic, or like, can't embrace that I'm Hispanic.
Amira: Yeah. Well, and also as a spotlight and visibility on you grows in the game, that means something, right? And so like, shout out to Shea Butter Podcast and Diaspora Pod. They are doing great work documenting the game. Shea Butter Podcast highlights Black women in in global football. And like, even from the minute it was announced that you signed at Gotham, like, they've been riding for you. You know what I mean? So it's like, even though you're figuring out that affirmation, you're on that continual journey, your presence is immediately read in an affirming way for, you know, so that the next person on the sidelines trying to get into the game has those mirrors to say like, oh, I can be like Ellie Jean, and that’s important.
Ellie: Yeah, I mean, it's just more embracing and accepting more parts of myself that I haven't always before, but like, yeah, again, then people are like, oh, another Hispanic player. And then it's like, oh, right. Because I don't really identify that way, but I am. So, I just think it's just been such an interesting journey, but also one that I wanna take and I wanna be on. So, that's also helpful. And it's challenged me in a really great way to more embrace that part of me and myself. And yeah, I find myself talking to my dad a lot more and I'm talking to my brother a lot more, and now all of a sudden we're trying to figure out like a trip to the Dominican. And it's like, I don't know, we would never really be thinking about…Like, I wouldn't have thought that I would be kind of in this space five years ago. So, yeah. It's great.
Amira: Sam, does the league feel more diverse to you than college?
Sam: Oh yeah. I mean, Big Ten soccer is not exactly the epicenter of of diversity, though I will say, El, like, I know…Well, I don't know, but secondhand from you, just like explaining to me how challenging like your experience was just as a Penn State student. And I think almost every Penn State student of color agrees with you. I do wanna say that you left such an impact on our program in every single way. But in this regard too, like, the initiatives and the infrastructure that followed – I wish it didn't happen after you left, but that followed your leaving. Like, we started having conversations monthly. Like, we had roundtables, we had Zoom calls when we were in quarantine, and we were reading books together. Like, the conversation continued to happen, and I don't think that that was something that was present when you were there, and that's not acceptable and that's not okay. But I do wanna just say, you left such an important imprint on our program in that regard, and I think started such an important movement that, from what I've heard, has carried on to this day.
Amira: Well, you were also important in carrying that on, because the team…Like, there's a thing, right? When Ellie graduated, there was this vacuum, and so it was like, it could have just stopped. But like the fact that you had the audacity, Sam, to be like, no, I'm a leader of this team, and we're gonna continue this.
Ellie: Exactly. Yeah.
Amira: It was like really important.
Sam: Yeah. And I mean, it's hard to have these conversations when you don't have Black players on your team. You know, part of that is, okay, like, where are we recruiting? What kind of people are we recruiting? Like, you know, now there is increased diversity on the team and I know it's something, like, I've had plenty of conversations with Ann and the coaches about and like something that they are almost like too aware of. [laughter] Like, they know, and they take it so personally, and you know that they are just so committed to this aspect of the program and to just continuing to foster these discussions, which I think is really unique to the Penn State program. I don't think many college soccer teams are sitting on their grass fields like, you know, a couple times a month or whatever, whatever the cadence might be, like talking about racism either in soccer or in the country or in whatever capacity.
So I would say though that the league is definitely a lot more diverse than any college soccer, anything in college soccer that I experienced. Obviously like, the Big Ten, like, you are right in the Midwest. So like, it's a whole lot of white. And for me, I think, you know, a big part of, you know, continuing to push myself and my own development and understanding of these topics is like, those wouldn't be things I necessarily would blink an eye at because I am in the majority. And like, but that's also not okay. Like, I need to be aware that this discrepancy in the women's game and just in soccer in general is not, like, yeah, it may not impact me as a white person because all these other, you know, the Nebraska's and the Iowa's is like, they're not exactly melting pots.
But you know, we need to continue to push for diversity in the game. And even if we aren't surrounded by different players of color, that like, we need to continue to have these conversations and have this be something that we're aware of. So, I think stepping into a league where it is so diverse, where the Black Women's Player Collective is a thing and we're having discussions, and I've never experienced such just like investment in this, yeah, in this topic. Like, I just think it's so cool to see women just across the league be so committed to, you know, furthering initiatives like that, like the Black Women's Player Collective, and just continue to have these conversations. And I think the league has a lot of unity in that regard too, which is really cool.
Amira: Yeah, absolutely. You're stepping into a league that has such an activist current running through it – by necessity. Like, people have had to. But Sam, you've had a rookie year that also saw you called up to the national team, which is another layer that you've had to navigate. And, you know, the night that you got your first cap, became the 250th person ever to earn a cap for the United States women's national team, was also the night that they signed a very historic collective bargaining agreement. What was it like to have a whirlwind of personal and professional successes at a moment where you're also seeing such a monumental kind of step forward for women's soccer in this country?
Sam: Yeah. I don't know if there’s necessarily the words to answer that one, but actually, after the game, we had like an event at this restaurant in DC, and there was just like women's soccer royalty there, and like political figures, all these people. I'm like, what is happening? Like, it was so cool. It was so cool. I'm like, am I here right now? I actually though after that went naturally to McDonald's with my parents to get some fries. [Amira laughs] And I remember standing in line with my mom, and it's like 2:00am in DC or something, and I'm like, did that just happen? And she's like, yep, it happened. And I was talking about the cap, I was talking about the CBA, like, just what a pivotal moment that was.
Obviously like in my own personal career, it was one of the best nights of my life, if not the best night of my life. Like, just such an incredible experience and honor. And I mean, again, it's very cliche, but like, just the culmination of a lifelong dream. But from just like a holistic standpoint of women's soccer, like, to be that field and watching them sign this document that quite literally will change the trajectory of women's sports in general was surreal. Like, I mean, I remember – and Ellie, I'm sure you can agree too – like, there are days where I'm like, is this sustainable? Like, can I make a living off of this?
Ellie: Yeah.
Sam: Like, is this, am I gonna have to be supported? Am I gonna, you know, like, can I make a living doing what I love most?
Ellie: Yeah. Yeah.
Sam: Yeah. And you know, like my parents and my brother specifically, who's just like typical brother, like such a pest, and makes fun of me in every way he possibly can, is always like, you know, just making fun of our salaries and like, you know, like, are you gonna get a real job? Like, all this stuff. And he does it lovingly. He's not a sexist. And I'm like, well, no, we joke, but it's also, like, it's true. Like, I don't know. And to now see like the money coming into the league and the increased salaries and just like the growth from a facility standpoint, from an investment standpoint, from a viewership standpoint. Like, I feel like a moocher, like I'm coming in at this time where like it's all getting so cool and I'm like, I had nothing to do with this, but I'm reaping the benefits! Thank you so much!
But I think just this being there on that night and, you know, listening to Becky speak, and other players, other members of the PA, I think it was so inspiring and and solidified in me now what my responsibility is, to continue that fight. And though it was such a success, like, that moment was such a win. We still do have so much more to go. And I think it's this constant cycle of like, this is amazing, but we're not there yet. And like, there's more to do. There's more to get done. Like, we get a hundred percent enjoy this and relish in it. But it's not an arrival point, and I don't think there ever will be an arrival point. But now I owe it to the next generation to do what they just did for me, and that's to continue to fight.
Amira: Yeah, absolutely. And clearly that fight continues, and I think you guys are both primed to you know, be on the front lines of that moving forward. So, Sam, you just got back from abroad. Playoffs. Are you ready?
Sam: Oh, I'm ready.
Amira: Very ready. [laughs]
Sam: I'm ready. I'm just so excited. I think I actually had another interview earlier and they were asking about, like, what are you feeling in regard to Sunday? I'm like, these past few weeks have been really heavy for us as players across the league, in women's sports. Like, it’s been heavy. Our trip to Europe was heavy. Like, I'm just excited to play a soccer game, just like with joy, and to have fun with it. And I am geared up for battle and ready to hopefully beat San Diego with my teammates, I think. But just like, I want us to have fun and to enjoy and just play a great soccer game. And I think that's what I'm most looking forward to, because like, the more we can just do our best and just leave all of the heaviness on the side for 90 minutes and just go out and do what we all do so great, it's gonna be a great day, and I'm excited to, yeah, to compete and to hopefully go to DC.
Amira: Yeah. And move on. So, when we're looking towards next season, what are your hopes and dreams for your personal and/or professional growth and for your team, right? And what are you looking forward to as we're like approaching a little bit of a moment to exhale after the whirlwind year that it's been?
Ellie: Well, right now I'm in offseason, so that's been really nice, just kind of trying to relax and let my body recuperate and really just trying to take some downtime, just to kind of be a human being, because I feel like we kind of forget sometimes that we're human beings when we're like, go, go, go, train, sleep, wake up, train. Like, it gets super interesting how you forget that you're like a human. So that's been really great exploring in the offseason. And next year it's my utmost number one goal to not be in last place. That would be awesome. [laughs]
Sam: You blocked the shield though. You blocked the shield.
Amira:
Ellie: We blocked the shield. Yep.
Amira: You a little mad about that? [laughs]
Ellie: That was our best performance yet. But yeah, that–
Sam: I couldn't even play. I had to watch it. I was like…
Ellie: I know. Yeah.
Amira: Just watching it mad. I was like, listen, I knew you were so mad, because when I flew to Portland to watch you both play and then you left to Mexico, Ellie, you have to know, this girl was like, so happy, all happy – by the way, you can root for El, but you cannot root for Gotham! And I was like, I don’t...They're down like three goals. Like, I think it's fine. [laughter]
Sam: Yeah.
Ellie: I know.
Amira: So competitive!
Ellie: Yeah, I think, so that's my number one goal for next year, just doing all I can to allow the team to flourish and do well. We definitely have a lot to work on, but like, I feel like as a team, and I know after speaking with most of the girls after the season, we're so invested to try and make Gotham the team that we want it to be and know it can be. And yeah, I think there are so many layers to that, but yeah, we're really trying to do our best this offseason just to come back and really show up how we wanted to show up this past season. And then personally, yeah, just continuing to learn and grow and see how good that I can get and see what opportunities open up. And yeah, of course I wanna see how to be the best and continue to try and, you know, go for the top of everything. But yeah, I think I'm also at a point where I'm trying to rethink like what success is for me.
And like, it doesn't have to be playing 90 minutes, it doesn't have to be playing every game. Like, what does success look like? What does a successful career look like for me? It doesn't necessarily have to be being on the national team, or like…Because those things at the end of the day don't fill you, like, can't fill you, can’t possibly fill you. Like, of course it's something that you would wanna achieve, but like, I just think there's so much more to that. And then also like you, half the time, people don't end up achieving those things. So like, how can I face success just off enjoyment of the game, enjoying what I'm doing every day, enjoying the process, enjoy waking up and, you know, just knowing that I'm gonna go out and play the game that I love. I think that's something that I've really been trying to do and hopefully with that comes great opportunities and allows me to go out and play my best and influence the team and the game as much as I can in the ways that I want to.
And I'm hoping like from there, things will flourish for me. But yeah, I think I've been lately really trying to switch my perspective of how I'm defining success, how I'm defining a successful career. And that's been super fun actually, and it's given me a lot more joy and a lot less pressure. And, like, happiness. Like, I can just be happy waking up and playing every day. I don't have to be miserable that I'm not on the national team for another…You know what I mean? Like, whereas in the past, those are things that I've honed in on so much. Whereas now it's like, okay, let's look at it from a different perspective. And like, you, 10 years ago, you would've been dying to be in this position that you're in right now. So like, be grateful that you're in this position right now and that you're being a professional athlete and you're getting to wake up and do this for a living.
Whereas before, that was one of the things that I wanted to do. That was one of the goals. Yeah, I think just like being grateful every day and continuing to try to push my own boundaries and challenge myself every day. And yeah, it's been fun so far. So I think continuing to fall in love with the process is something that I'm really trying to continue to work on and master. Yeah.
Sam: What she said. [laughter] That was so good, El. And yeah. I have all the same sentiments as you. I think I struggle sometimes with goals, because I think this year more than ever, like, I have been so committed to just living like one day at a time, and it's been something that's really been so helpful for me, because I think I'll look ahead and I'm like, oof, it's a long year, and all this stuff. And when I look ahead I'm like, you need to stop doing that. Like, you need in the moment where your feet are, be grateful for today, and like, you will wake up tomorrow, and like, just one thing at a time. But of course, that doesn't stop me from like looking ahead [laughs] and trying to, you know, aspire to continue to grow and develop, like you said, El.
I think from a team perspective, I think Portland for so many years has been like a pioneer in women's sports and women's soccer and really like a gold standard in my eyes, and I wanna continue to contribute to that. I obviously wanna win championships with this team. Hopefully that starts this year. You know, we definitely do have a lot of growth to…There's a lot of growth to be had off the field, in terms of what is going on in the investigation and all this stuff. And so that is something that I really hope I can be a positive part of in whatever way that that looks. But from a personal standpoint, like again, El, I echo everything you said. Like, I think when I start to succumb to the pressure of it, or the “I have to go to practice” or this thing, like these things, I'm like, no, no, no. Like, this is your lifelong dream. And you get to do it every single day, and you get to play with people you love. And like, I just wanna approach each day with a growth mindset, being a sponge, and just joy. Like, joy in playing, joy in being around the people I'm around, joy in learning.
Like, there's gonna be ups and downs. You know, obviously there's a World Cup next year, and I want with all of me to be there. And that is, I mean, I'd be lying if I said that wasn't my goal. But from the national team perspective, like, I wanna do everything in my power to show up to every camp regardless of whether or not I go and just help the team prepare and give my everything to that environment and to my environment here. And just, again, like, I think just constantly every day, one day at a time, like, really just be the best version of myself that I can be, and continue to get that doctorate, because it's definitely hard. [laughter] Oh, there's a lot to learn. But I just feel I think this year has like exceeded all my expectations, and it's been so fun, and such an adventure, and I just think about hopefully all the joy that is to come, and I feel so excited to be a part of that.
Amira: It's so funny, because I'm just remembering your first week in Portland, when I saw you and you were like, I have a lot of time on my hands. Like, do you have like books to read? Like, can I do more? Like I just need to fill my plate. [laughs] And I was like, girl! Calm down.
Sam: Yeah. Amira was like, you need to chill out. I was like, Amira, I wanna go back to school. Like, I need a master's program.
Ellie: I do feel like though, you do have to go through…Because even in the Netherlands, like, that was me at some point too. I was like, I'm going crazy. And I was still in school trying to finish up anyway. So that was great. But then after I'd finished that spring, I was like, what am I gonna do all day? [Amira laughs]
Sam: Yes. Well, I'm glad you told me to like chill out, Amira, too, because like–
Amira: Oh my gosh.
Sam: I needed to chill out, because it's definitely busier than I thought it was gonna be. [laughs]
Amira: Yes, it is. Well, it's such a joy to see you talk about joy, like, both of you, on your personal journeys, your professional journeys, your faith journeys, your identity journeys. It has just been like a great joy of my personal career to have some small part in that for both of y’all, and to like see you emerge into such amazing versions of yourself. And you've always been that, both of you have. But there's been times where I've seen you not believe that you were the people that I always knew you were. And so it's just really great to see it and to see more people see it. And to see it on the pitch, and to see it on the sidelines, and to see it in everything and everything that you do and how you carry yourselves is just a joy. So, I didn't wanna wait til like a cold day in State College where you guys like had a reunion and then maybe next year you'll actually play each other at the same time, in the same place.
Sam: It's gonna happen.
Amira: And I will be there for that. But I just thought what better way to close out the NWSL season? Sam, you still have some work to do. Hopefully we close out on a bank. But wrap it up with your first years in the league and what a topsy turvy year it has been, but it also has been one full of joy, because I've gotten to watch you – caveat, when Paramount+ was not acting janky, which…And like, I've discovered Twitch, so.
Sam: That's my goal for next year. [laughter]
Amira: To make it not janky. What is happening? So, yeah, thank you for joining Burn It All Down, and kick ass this weekend. This will air after that. So hopefully we'll be pulling for y'all in the finals by the time people hear this. And Ellie, enjoy your family and the sea and the sunshine, even though you guys both just need to visit Austin, because it is warm and pleasant here.
Sam: I’ve heard great things.
Amira: It's wonderful. And not cold.
Ellie: Yeah, but don't you miss the fall?
Amira: No, I just was up at Notre Dame and I saw the trees and they were great. And now I'm not there. [laughs]
Sam: No, Amira misses the State College winters. [laughter]
Amira: Oh yeah. I'm just wishing for that…Oh my god. I just saw my house there. I don't even have to worry about hiring anybody to come shovel my driveway. Like, I’m just done. But I do miss coach, I miss Ann.
Sam: Me too.
Amira: I miss, you know, soccer nights there, but I'll have to like find some students here. [laughter]
That's it for this episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon, of course, is on our webs and socials. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Listen and subscribe, rate the show wherever you listen to podcasts. For show links and transcripts, please check out our website, burnitalldownpod.com. You'll also find a link there to our merch at our Bonfire store. And thank you to our Patreons, you continue to mean the world to us. If you wanna become a donor to our show, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown, Burn on, but not out, and we'll see you next week, flamethrowers.