Interview: Summer-Solstice Thomas, on Gendered Violence in the NCAA

In this episode Jessica Luther talks to Summer-Solstice Thomas about Thomas’s advocacy to get the NCAA to care about gendered violence, specifically in terms of harmful coaches who sexually abuse their athletes. They talk about Thomas’s time as a college athlete, how she came to care about this issue and what she hopes changes in the future.

This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Jessica: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. Jessica here. A heads up: in this interview, we will be discussing gendered violence and sexual abuse. I'm joined today by Summer-Solstice Thomas, a scientific researcher who is interested in the way the environment affects public health. But that's not why she's here today. Summer, you were – you are? – a track and field athlete. I'd like to start there. I always like starting with people's relationship to sport. So, when did you get started in sports? What events did you do in track and field? 

Summer-Solstice: So, as a little kid, I always just had a ton of energy, and sports were my happy place and outlet. And I was super privileged that my parents kind of let me do every sport imaginable. So I played soccer and boy's lacrosse and water polo and volleyball and basketball, and mostly just like enjoyed moving my body in the company of good people. And I never really thought it would go anywhere beyond like low stakes recreation, until I was actually scouted by the coach I wrote about in my article that we're going to talk about. He scouted me when I was a sophomore in high school, and I was doing track and field at that time only really to stay in shape for soccer.

Jessica: Oh! Okay.

Summer-Solstice: Yeah, but I was tall and gangly, and the high jump was a really good fit for my attributes. [laughs] And I kind of fell in love with it because I got to fly, which is kind of a feeling you don't get anywhere else. But yeah, it was really mostly recreation for me until he started talking to me about getting more serious. 

Jessica: And then you did it in college for the entire time you were in college, right?

Summer-Solstice: Yeah, so, actually I think it's kind of funny that I got recruited in high school, because I was really not that good. [laughter] But I've been thankful that I was recruited because I got way better in college, and it was definitely the highlight of my collegiate career, being on a track and field team and having that amazing community and just learning so much about my body and the space that I occupy. But yeah, I continued to high jump in college and I actually transitioned to doing the multi – so, that's the pentathlon and the heptathlon in college.

Jessica: Wow!

Summer-Solstice: So, that includes high jump and a bunch of other events.

Jessica: That makes sense on some level, if you're telling me you did used to do water polo and lacrosse, and then you learn the high jump. I mean, you seem eclectic in your sporting world. It's very impressive. So this is going to be an abrupt shift, because I don't think there's like a really good way to get into this, but so in November, you published a piece at Fortune, and it was titled, It could have been me: The NCAA must do more to protect student-athletes from sexual abuse. This came across my Twitter timeline, and I of course immediately clicked through because probably listeners to this podcast know I have for many years now, like eight years, been writing about how the NCAA does not have rules around gendered violence, doesn't protect all their student athletes as they claim in their mission.

But you and I are actually coming at this and just slightly different ways. I most often write about athletes harming other athletes. But your piece is more, as you alluded to earlier, about abusive coaches in general, and their relationship to athletes. And so, how did this piece come about? Why did you want to write this?

Summer-Solstice: So, this came from my experiences in high school. So, kind of as I was talking about, I'd gotten to track just really for fun and to stay in shape. And then I began to get recruited by this local high jump guru, John Rembao, and he had coached NCAA champions, Olympians. He'd worked at the Olympic training center. He had this big reputation, and he asked me to come join his private training group, where he trained us in high jump very specifically. And so there was a group of me and three other high school students who were looking to do track in college – which I wasn't really at that point, but they were, and then I eventually moved to that trajectory. And then we also had two Olympic hopefuls training with us as well.

So, it was a pretty intense environment for just a high schooler. And we always talked about how amazing it was that this high jump legend had returned to his hometown of Santa Cruz to coach these gangly high school athletes – AKA us – for mere pennies. And little did we know that there was a reason, probably, for that. I mean, it's hard to distinctly prove this, but it was most likely becoming difficult for him to find a job coaching at universities. Based on what we know now, he had created this reputation for himself for having inappropriate relationships with his student athletes.

And so, this news did not come about until a court case was filed in March of 2020 by three of his former athletes from the 90s. And they all claim that John Rembao had pursued sexual relationships with them while coaching them at the University of Arizona and University of Texas at Austin. And I think the most frustrating part of this whole thing was the silence around it. So, I was his athlete for years. I continued to be super close to him in college. I had dinner with him as late as December 2019, and then this came out in March, 2020. And I didn't know about it until May, 2020 when a past training mate from high school brought it up to me, and was like, do you know about this? I had no idea!

So I mean, the abuse obviously in itself is horrific, but as I began to read the court case and discover that these abuses were actually reported to the universities where they occurred and no reparations or justice or any punishment against Rembao happened. That became really troubling for me personally, just given that I was like, okay, I was in the super precarious position in high school being coached by this now known sexual predator, for years, 20 hours a week. Just me, him and five other girls at the track alone. And I was only ever put in that position because these universities failed to respond in the 90s when this abuse was reported.

Jessica: You have this great...It's a kind of sticky line that I'll think about moving forward. You have this line in your piece about how you were lucky, you feel lucky that you weren't yourself abused, and that no one should feel lucky to have escaped a situation like that. Because this is fascinating to me, as someone who spends too much time reading court cases and studying this, like as a job. So, you start reading this court case, and you just happen to land on the fact that the NCAA just doesn't have any rules around this. When you were in college, did you have a sense of like what the NCAA was there for?

Summer-Solstice: Actually, no, and I think that was part of why this was so surprising to me, because as a previously NCAA athlete, I thought of the NCAA as this like benevolent, great organization that gave us fun socks at nationals and cool trophies. [laughs] And beyond that, I didn't really know much. And it wasn't really talked about at all, if there were any rules around this or any other things really beyond kind of like doping and things like that. So, yeah, I really knew nothing about this until it began affecting my personal life. 

Jessica: That's so interesting. I want to say, in the piece you have this great...You call it “enforceable regulations.” And this is true just for gendered violence in general, but also around coaches having relationships with student athletes, they have like, “don't do that,” like, “that's not good.” But they don't have, as you say, enforceable regulations. Why do you think that this is the way it is?

Summer-Solstice: I mean, I think if the NCAA did create those rules, they would have some trouble on their hands, honestly. Like, they would have to be legally responsible for a lot of these cases. And it makes sense why an institution wouldn't want to do that. But as an institution dedicated to the wellbeing of student athletes – that's literally in their mission statement! It seems crazy that they don't want to be responsible for that. Like, sexual abuse kind of is like…That seems quite obviously going to be a very negative factor for your wellbeing. So, it just seems like a bare minimum that the NCAA should be responsible and should take very proactive and advanced measures to preventing that abuse. So, from an athlete's standpoint, it doesn't make any sense. 

Jessica: Yeah. It's like, in response to so much of the stuff around Me Too, you would hear people say, like, well, if we took this case seriously, then we'd have to take all these cases seriously! And you're like, yes? [laughs] Like, sorry that's hard. But yes, you would. And I think you're totally right to talk about liability around the NCAA. I'm really super cynical and I would just say they don't care. Let’s talk about the how of it, because I do think this is the most difficult part, like, how do we fix it? It often feels to me like screaming into the wind, right? The NCAA is huge. It's powerful. We talk about this all the time on the show. Getting them to do any kind of change seems momentous in any direction. Do you have ideas for, like…Are there concrete things right now that the NCAA could do? And what would you like those to be?

Summer-Solstice: Yeah. So, this is actually something I directly address in my article. But right now, the NCAA isn't beholden to Title IX, which is what we recognize as protecting students from gendered violence and gender discrimination, including sexual abuse. And because the NCAA doesn't receive federal funds, they're seen as not beholden under Title IX. So instead they rely on their member institutions – AKA universities, who often do receive federal funds – to adhere to Title IX regulations and do investigations on gendered violence, gender discrimination, sexual abuse.

So, when the abuse is reported – and again, we know that is a low number. A lot of abuse goes under-reported. But when that abuse is reported, the investigations become very internal, because it's not in the university's best interest to recognize that there is a sexual predator within their midst. That is like a reputation nightmare for them! So they do all that they can to keep it really silent. And also, they're all friends within the athletic department, like, they're friends with their colleagues. That makes sense. So they kind of come at it with a biased perspective, even from the get-go.

And so in a case like Rembao, these cases were reported, they were investigated, and he was just quietly let go. So there's been reason to believe that the universities did find these accusations to be legitimate, but they just didn't want to publicly state that abuse had happened under one of their coaches, because that is a nightmare for them in terms of their public reputation. And this happens in multiple cases. We saw it with the Larry Nassar case, with people covering up for him for over 20 years. We've seen it in Ohio State, University of Minnesota.

So, it becomes a question of, okay, the NCAA has seen these disasters surface, and they still refuse to do anything or make regulations within their holistic organization that could have really wide-reaching effects. They still refuse to make those actions. So, yeah. How can we change in the meantime? And while we still hope for those actions to be taken at some point! [laughs] So, a super easy one, and something that most universities adopt in terms of faculty and students, is to prohibit sexual and romantic relationships between student athletes and athletic staff. Even the NCAA has published papers defining this as abuse, even when it’s a consensual relationship, because of the inherent power dynamic.

Jessica: Right.

Summer-Solstice: And so a lot of universities already have regulations prohibiting faculty from developing these types of relationships with students, but not all athletic staff, including like assistant coaches and athletic trainers – and even sometimes head coaches are beholden to those faculty regulations. So, super easy thing is either the NCAA could prohibit these relationships, or athletic departments themselves can go ahead and make that part of their code of conduct.

Another thing is that investigations into allegations of abuse should be conducted by an independent third party. So, again, going back to how internal those investigations within athletic departments can become, and how silencing and non-serving of the victims it can become. It's better to rely on a third party investigation. And again, that could hopefully be mandated by the NCAA, but in the meantime, individual athletic departments can make those steps themselves.

There's also advocacy to have an overseeing third-party. So, we have SafeSport, but that only really applies to club sports and pro sports. It doesn't apply to NCAA sports at this time. But they track and investigate abuse claims. So, even if something doesn't become proven, there's at least a way to track claims made against a coach. So, in a case like Rembao, when he had claims at maybe five different institutions, even though he never got publicly punished for those abuses and that abuse was never publicly recognized as legitimate, if you had an independent tracking system you would be able to see that, oh, he does have a list of allegations against him, and maybe that's something to consider when you're hiring him.

And then another step that I think is actually maybe the easiest one is to provide critical education on healthy boundaries between student athletes and athletic authority figures. So, under NCAA regulations right now, student athletes and coaches have to go through sexual assault awareness training every year, and that's a new regulation, I think, from like three years ago.

Jessica: Yeah. It's pretty new.

Summer-Solstice: But an easy step is, within those trainings, to include trainings on athletic authority relationships, on grooming, on authority abuse. And I actually am super grateful for this, but my previous institution, Williams College, where I went to college and was a track athlete, I worked with their sexual assault awareness department and they've instituted that type of education into their annual trainings. So, again, that's also a step that can be taken by independent institutions themselves.

Jessica: So, I like this. I like the idea that like there…Of course, we could see like what the big organization could do in order to make this, you know, across the board a standard. But I like the idea of localized action. People always ask me all the time about Title IX stuff, and I don't think there's ever good answers, as you say. Like, it's so hard. It's so under-reported, there's so much silence around it. People are right to fear retaliation if they come forward. There’s all these things in place that make it very difficult. But I tell people all the time, contact your alma mater and ask them how many people work in the Title IX department? In this case, what is the athletic department doing about these issues?

It doesn't mean necessarily that one person's email is going to matter, but hearing from lots of people…And sometimes I do, the sort of Pollyanna part of me, thinks that there are people who would change things if they understood better, and that they just don’t. I think lots of people make lots of bad decisions for other reasons. But athletic departments should be stepping up to the plate, and that they can actually do a lot of this work without having to wait for the NCAA to do it for them, or to force them into it, right?

Summer-Solstice: Yeah, for sure. And I should say that actually those four recommendations that I just touched on, those were actually brainstormed by the survivors of Rembao's abuse with their lawyers. And so that directly comes from the survivors. And I think that's really important to mention, that these are the safeguards they wish they’d had to prevent that type of happening to them. 

Jessica: Yeah, that's amazing. 

Summer-Solstice: Yeah. There's also other ways that are a little bit nuanced and less like guidelines set in stone, but SafeSport talks a lot about ways you can set different norms within your athletic institution. So, whether that's like a small as a club team to a college team to a pro team, basically small steps that just create an atmosphere where healthy boundaries are more likely to sustain. So, making all conversations between student and coach observable and interruptible…Certainly, sometimes there has to be exceptions to that. Like, one time at my alma mater, I cried on the couch of my coach about my mental health struggles. And that wasn't a conversation I was comfortable having other people beside my coach witness. But it should be the norm that conversations between a coach and a student don't occur behind a closed door. And that just provides more safeguards against that type of abuse becoming reality.

Jessica: Right.

Summer-Solstice: Another thing is that there should be no private messaging between coaches and athletes. Again, there might have to be exceptions, but it's just pretty easy to throw a couple athletes in the group chat. And then there's just like some checks and balances automatically in place.

Jessica: Right, right. 

Summer-Solstice: And another thing that I think even goes beyond issues of abuse is just not commenting on the physical appearance of your athletes. So, that can be something like commenting on the physical beauty, which would be…We would think about in an abuse context, and kind of delving into grooming. But it can also be thought about like in a disordered eating and body shaming context. The physical, aesthetic appearance of your athlete has no correlation to their athletic performance. Like, if you want to talk about their body, talk about its mechanical function. 

Jessica: Yeah. There's all the interesting stuff that's come out of Oregon, University of Oregon, recently, with abuse around specifically this issue. You can see how easily focusing on people's bodies can move into abusive structures of power. So, that makes a lot of sense. 

Summer-Solstice: Yeah. I've had a few people that I've talked to you about implementing all of these guidelines and norms, be like, that seems like a lot! Like, you're asking for a lot! [laughs] But I don't feel like abuse is like a small issue, right? I think that we should do everything we can to prevent student athletes from getting abused. And also, there are cases that even when some of these steps were taken, abuse still happened. So, recently Washington Post came out with an article last week about Kirk Shipley, which they had actually awarded some coach of the year awards to. And he came under two independent investigations from consultants hired by parents after the were complaints about his conduct as a high school coach at Walt Whitman High in Maryland. And those investigations didn't find anything problematic.

Then after, some of his current and former athletes came forward with claims of very explicit and horrible sexual assault. So even though there was an independent third party investigating some claims, abuse still happened, and still was not found. So, it's great to have as many checks and balances as we can and as many safeguards as necessary, and it seems very little to ask to just keep our athletes safe and healthy.

Jessica: Yeah. I can't agree with that any more. Exactly. Well, thank you so much, Summer. I did want to ask, before we let you go, what’s next for you? So, you're done with college. What’s next in life? And are you continuing to do all of the many sports…Are you still bouncing around, doing your sports? 

Summer-Solstice: Yeah, so, actually last year I was super privileged to be a Henry Luce scholar and spend a year in Cambodia, and I actually helped coach the national Cambodian track team while I was there.

Jessica: Wow!

Summer-Solstice: Which was amazing, and a very humbling experience. [laughs] Didn’t get to coach as much as I wanted to, given rising COVID rates and kind of like a shutting down of athletic activity. But coaching is something I'm still super interested in and would love to continue to do. And currently I'm training for triathlons. That has become the new sport venture in my life.

Jessica: Oh! Back many, many years ago now, it feels like, I used to do triathlons. The short ones, the sprint distance. They were fun. It's hard! Are you a good swimmer? I assume you are, from water polo. 

Summer-Solstice: Yeah. I'm hoping that my experiences from the past will help. And then also my experience being like a multi-event athlete, doing several events in a day, can be helpful. But definitely much longer distances than I'm used to. [laughs] So, I’ll have to see how that turns out!

Jessica: Well, good luck with everything. Thank you so much for your advocacy and for coming on Burn It All Down today to talk about this.

Summer-Solstice: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I so appreciate it.