Special Episode: Averie Allard, Métis Volleyball Player Walking for Indigenous Justice
*Content Warning: Indigenous genocide and intergenerational trauma*
In this episode, Shireen Ahmed interviews Averie Allard, a Métis woman from Treaty 1 Territory and volleyball setter of the University of Saskatchewan. They talk about how Averie has used sport for healing and to advocate for justice for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Girls and Two-Spirit People (MMIWG2S) in Canada and the US. Most recently, Averie began walking 1 km for each child found in unmarked mass graves on the grounds of residential schools in Canada. Her walking, which she is doing with her dog Rory, is also raising money for the Legacy of Hope Foundation which works to educate people about the lasting impacts of residential schools. She also works with Waanishka, an organization that creates safe spaces for Indigenous youth.
To donate to Averie's walk, visit her GoFundMe: Averie and Rory's Walk for Legacy Hope.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Shireen: Hello, flamethrowers, Shireen here. I would like to offer a content warning for the interview you are about to hear with Averie Allard. We will be discussing Indigenous genocide and intergenerational trauma.
Hello, flamethrowers. It's Shireen here. I am so excited and honored to be sharing this space with Averie Allard. Hello, Averie.
Averie: Hi.
Shireen: If you don't know about Averie – and you should – Averie is a Métis woman from Treaty 1 territory who found her voice through sport. A fourth year University of Saskatchewan Huskies volleyball player, she began advocating for Indigenous justice by raising awareness for the MMIWG2S epidemic that is plaguing Canada. And for those that don't know, that acronym is for missing and murdered Indigenous women, girls, and two-spirited people. Averie is an education student through the SUNTEP program, which has only fed the flame of her passion for Indigenous justice and anti-oppressive education. In her free time, she's one of the three directors for the nonprofit Waanishka, a group that aspires to create space for Indigenous youth.
Most recently, Averie has committed to walk with her dog, Rory, and whoever else is willing to join them, in support of the students that have been found on the grounds of residential schools. She has committed to walk one kilometer for every child found and has already raised over $900 and hopes to continue her fundraising through the summer. Okay. So, let's start by also offering this space to recognize what an incredibly difficult month this has been, not just only because of the more recently found bodies that have been unearthed in Saskatchewan, where you are, and not very far from where you are, from what I understand, but also the 215 that were found in Kamloops just at the beginning of the month. So, when you decided to walk Rory, did you know that this would just be the beginning?
Averie: I wasn't sure, because when the first group of children were found, it wasn't really a Canada-wide search, from what I understand. It wasn't “okay, we're going to search this residential school to find the children.” It just kind of happened. I wasn't aware that the government would put out the money to search all the residential schools because, as I understand, in 2009 they was a big push to do so and the government flat out said a million dollars is too much money to search these grounds. So, knowing that, I wasn't too sure if all the other schools would be searched – and there are so many of them – but knowing this, I kind of said, okay, well, if they do, you know, I don't have to time my walk. I don't have to say “by the end of the month.” But if they do, I will keep committing myself to walking because at the end of the day I think that every child that didn't come home deserves the justice. And I think it's ridiculous that it's been 11 years since there was the first demand to search these grounds and now we're finally doing it and I'm old enough to understand and to do something about it.
Shireen: And just for clarification that people may not know because of a lot of our listeners are not just on this part of Turtle Island, they're in the United States as well. How did you come to know about this? Was it from stories in your community? Were you told by your elders, were you told by your family? And you know, you're still quite young. How are you absorbing this information?
Averie: Well, the information that came from the school in Kamloops came from…They head of SUNTEP, she sent out a mass email saying like, “We are with you,” and, “We have supports in place for those who need to grieve and who would like to grieve properly and want to be in touch with elders and such.” But if you're talking about my education on residential schools, I knew because of my family and because growing up Métis, that's something that was not often talked about, but something we were aware of. It was a really hard thing to learn about in school. When I came to the University of Saskatchewan I wasn't in SUNTEP for my first two years, and when I got into SUNTEP one of my first classes was an Indigenous studies class, and that's what kind of started all this advocacy.
Like, learning about it at the age of 21 for the first time formally really struck everything that I knew and I thought, okay, well, I know most of my friends don't talk about residential schools at home. So, if I’m learning about this for the first time formally my third year of university, there must be thousands of other students going into colleges such as law or education or medicine who aren't aware of these things. And I think that that's a problem.
Shireen: Yeah, definitely. I'm of a generation that certainly didn't learn about residential schools and Indigenous history at all. And one of the things that I also find incredibly compelling is that you use your platform and your public facing exposure as a volleyball player, and as a setter on a team, a reputable team, to share this and teach and help people unlearn, because part of the system is that we're not taught. I'm from Mi’kmaq territory, I'm from the east coast, and I had no idea how close I was living to a residential school. I didn't know what a residential school was until I was actually almost finished high school. And to hear you say that, that the first time you learn about it, you know, it gives me chills. But now, what made you decide to be so public, using volleyball as well? What made you decide that? Was it something that came organically or did you just wake up one day and be like, I have an opportunity here to help?
Averie: Yeah, for sure. Growing up next to Tracie Léost, the founder of Waanishka, I always saw her advocacy and she's always been a huge inspiration and she was a really good friend of my brother’s, actually. So yeah. She grew up in sort of in the same neighborhood that I did with the same experiences as a not visibly Indigenous woman. And I remember after one of my Indigenous studies classes, we were learning about MMIWG2S and I couldn't believe that the people sitting next to me…Because we weren't all in SUNTEP, and nobody had heard of this. And I just remember I was 15 Tracie Léost did her run to raise money for…Which you did interview her on, I believe.
Shireen: Yeah. She was on this podcast.
Averie: Yeah. So I just, I thought, okay, if I've been learning about this for six years now – and again, people aren't learning about it until now, and the stereotypes and the language that surrounds that whole epidemic is just…Like, it hurts to hear it and to think about it. We were in Vancouver, we were in the Lower Mainland playing Trinity Western. We were away. I remember…I don't know what it was, but we were getting ready for game day and…Oh, I saw a pro player. I believe she's Dakota and she's from one of the northern states in the US…
Shireen: Madge Ducheneaux.
Averie: Yes. She was playing her pro game and she wore MMIW on her arm and she had a red hand print on her shoulder. And there was a lot of controversy in the pro volleyball world at that point. Like, it raised so many questions, because as a club, as a pro club, you have very strict guidelines on what you need to wear, how you need to act. I just remember, well, I don't have any of those restrictions, and my coach is very supportive of anything and everything I've ever done. So I texted him and I said, can I come talk to you for a minute? And he was like, yep. And I asked him, how do you feel about…I told him about MMIWG2S, and I said, I wanna write MMIW on my leg and play with it and hopefully start a conversation. He said, amazing, do it, awesome. So we actually took tape, like athletic therapy tape, put it on my leg like “MMIW”–
Shireen: Oh, I thought it was a marker. Because from the photos–
Averie: It was, yeah. I had an allergic reaction to the tape. So I had a rash of “MMIW” on my leg for the next month.
Shireen: Wow.
Averie: Which is kind of ironic.
Shireen: Yeah. That's a bit intense.
Averie: So then we started writing it with marker.
Shireen: Okay. I mean, that's amazing how you saw somebody else and then were inspired to do that. It's quite prolific. I mean, you sent me the Instagram post – and we'll put it in the show notes – of you seeing that. And I think that what you wrote, and I'm just gonna read from your Instagram, which is you're “playing for awareness, playing for change. And as an Indigenous woman, the chances of me getting a degree are less than that of being a statistic in the murdered and missing Indigenous women epidemic. That is so far from okay.” And then the hashtag is #MMIW. Okay. So first of all, are you the only Indigenous woman on the university of Saskatchewan volleyball team?
Averie: No – there's actually one other Métis girl on our team.
Shireen: Okay. So, predominantly you're frequently in sports spaces in particular, the only Indigenous woman and that level of elite sport. Do you get people coming up to you and asking about what it is?
Averie: Actually after that game I had I want to say upwards of 20 DMs on Instagram of people who are at the Trinity game asking me, like, why are you doing this? What does this mean? But we were actually in Regina one day playing a league game and there were six girls who were in town, they were from a reserve and they came to the city to play a volleyball game or a tournament with the city schools. They wanted to take a picture with me after, and they were like, we can't believe you're doing this. Like, this is so awesome. I almost started crying because I was just like, I didn't realize how many people it had reached, like, these girls were in high school, and it's not like I have a connection to girls in Regina either. So I just, I thought that that was really amazing.
Shireen: And what Madge Ducheneaux, what she did for you, you’re passing that on. You're paying it forward. And then maybe, hopefully if there's no restrictions – and if there are, these young folks and Indigenous folks and their allies fight it, fight those restrictions on being…Because we know that very often in sport there’s an attempt to cease any discussion that's considered “political,” where this isn't a political discussion, it’s about the right to life.
Averie: For sure.
Shireen: In someone in your space, because you're starting setter, you're the core of the team, quite frankly. You're the bones of the squad. I'm a volleyball mom, so I absolutely understand. My son's a middle blocker, but my point is [laughs] I know the importance of what you do and how you carry it and the composure required. And this month has arguably been extremely difficult, but how are you still training and focusing on sport – sport as your respites, as your passion, but it's also a place where you advocate for justice. So how do you reconcile that?
Averie: Lately it's been quite hard just because we're kind of on a break right now. We don't really do a lot of training and if we do it's one-on-one. We did a scrimmage the other day and I had just finished walking with Rory and one of my teammates who's walked probably at least half of the kilometers with me. She said, do you want to walk after the game? And I said, sure. But going into the game, I just remember thinking like, most of these girls are going to go home, have their dinner and watch a movie and go to bed and do whatever, and not think twice about it. And I just about these children who were taken from their families and never returned and I just…That’s the really hard part for me, is when I go into a space that's not indigenized and not aware of these issues, it's really hard for me to just be focused on playing, to be honest with you. And it's just something that’s…These last few weeks, it's been really hard to do anything without thinking about it and thinking about the people around me and how it doesn't affect them, and that is wrong.
Shireen: And so if your teammates or if people listening can support your campaign…And I do actually want to ask you about Rory and how he came into your life and how you made the decision. But before I get there, what is a way that folks can help by supporting the campaign or, you know, there's, there's a free course in Indigenous history in this country from University of Alberta. What do you suggest that people do? Because we feel that way. We feel, as racialized communities that have experienced trauma through colonization and through violence, we feel that weight all the time and the weight of grief is quite heavy. So what do you say to people who are listening right now?
Averie: Oh, it's funny that you asked that – there's a girl a few years younger than me and we talk via Instagram and she comes to our games and…Great person, and she's a settler, and she's very aware of the issues. She DM'd me and she said, what do I do? Like, I'm lost, I feel like nothing's ever going to get better and I want to help. And my first reaction was to read books, because as a visibly white person, like, I'm not…Nobody would know I'm Indigenous unless they spoke to me. And I recognize that that is a huge privilege, but I know learning for me comes from reading, and you know, you pick up a book like Black Water and you read about an Indigenous man's journey back to finding himself from growing up being told, oh, you're Indigenous but like, no, just don't tell people that. And he grew up in the same city that I did.
So, listening to his stories and internalizing those stories…You know, he went to a primarily white school and everyone knew that he wasn't white, but nobody really asked, and so he never wanted to be Indigenous. And I just thought, wow. Like, growing up in a primarily white school where you see primarily white figures, you read primarily white authors, it's so hard to want to grow up to be an Indigenous person. And I think that reading can go so far for educating, because reading a story like that, it's not just statistics, it's not just a lecture. It's not, “Okay, here's the issue,” and then that's that. You really get to connect with the person and their story, and realize there's so many others like that too. And you kind of get to connect that to the statistic or connect that to a stereotype. I feel like it's much more personal at that point. So I would just say: read. Grab a book.
Shireen: [laughs] So grab a book. And I mean, I think that's a very fair thing to say. The way that we've been taught, and part of the system as I mentioned is not knowing. And you know, there's a couple Indigenous authors…I mean, if I may chime in, The Inconvenient Indian by Thomas King is essential, and anything by Tanya Talaga, who wrote about Thunder Bay and missing and murdered Indigenous youth there and just the system in this part of the country – because you and I are in different parts of the country as well. [laughs] I think that everything you've said is just so key and so important to everything, and how I'm hearing you say you can't put your identity aside, even as an athlete. So, let's talk about Rory [Averie laughs] and first of all, how old is Rory?
Averie: Rory's just over one. I would say 13 months, 14 maybe?
Shireen: Aw, so he's a pandemic puppy?
Averie: Yes, he is a pandemic puppy. [laughs]
Shireen: Okay. So he's a pandemic puppy who arguably brings you tremendous amount of joy, because your photos are beautiful with him on your Instagram. How did you decide to walk with Rory for this cause?
Averie: Yeah, for sure. So, I got Rory in November after a very long year of, okay, do I get a dog? Do I not get a dog? And you know, I've seen seven therapists now and I'm struggling a lot still with grieving and whatnot, and on top of that all the anti-oppressive education that I want to do and I want to take part in it, it's very heavy. I needed to spend more time outside. Growing up, that's what we did. We played outside. We spent so much time camping at the beach. That's all my family did, and just walking or biking. And I remember I had been looking for a dog for probably a month and I was very set on getting a rescue. One day I left class to go and look at this dog at the SPCA here in Saskatoon, and they said, yeah, go take whatever one you want – because I'd been there walking dogs previously, and they said, yeah, just take them out into the back and go play with them and let us know when you're done.
So I go out, all he wanted to do was cuddle. So I was like, well, I can't say no to this dog now! [Shireen laughs] His name was Hershey at the time. And I sat on the bench that they have in this little park and he just sat on me and I was like, okay, I guess I'm taking you home. Like, I'm not…I can't leave you here now. And he had been returned three times previously. They didn't tell me why. They said he was just not a good fit, I guess. And he was returned three times and I took him home and he was just…His personality didn't really come out until I would say like two months ago. He has the most energy I've ever seen in a dog.
And throughout everything that's happened this year with the pandemic, the more time I…In the fall I spent a lot of time outside biking and walking by the river. I'm the type of person that needs to be doing something at all times. Like to me, rest is not a good thing. And I'm learning to be okay with being bored and to just sit there and kind of chill out. But because we weren't traveling or playing at all this year, I had Friday, Saturday, Sunday – which are usually playing and travel days – and sometimes even Thursdays, I had nothing. And I wasn't doing anything. I couldn't really hang out with my friends unless we went to the dog park or on a walk. But prior to Rory, I was doing nothing. And that really brought me down and my grades started to go down. I had no motivation to play anymore. I just was not in a good headspace. And then I was like, I need to find something that's going to make me go outside and make me spend time with nature and fresh air and just get back in touch with being okay with feeling feelings, even if they're not the good ones.
So then I found Rory and we walk an incredibly large amount of kilometers [laughs] and lately, especially after the news released about the 215 children in Kamloops, I started to get back into that funk. And I was like, I don't want to go to the dog park. I don't want to go to the beach with him. I don't want to do anything. And I felt like I was starting the grieving process over from square one again, even though it had nothing to do with my brother, it just kind of reset me. I couldn't imagine losing a whole generation of my family. Like, that easily could have been my great-grandfather and it's just like…It just dismantles lineages and it just made me so sad and I didn't want to do anything.
And then the more I thought about it, the more I was like, I really want to do something. I can't advocate with my platform through playing because we're not playing right now. That's when I was just like…It was really late when I thought of the idea, it was like 11:30 in the night and I'm usually in bed by 9. And Rory was just crying and crying and crying because he wanted to go on another walk, and I was like, okay, fine. And then while we were walking I just couldn't stop thinking about these kids and these families and how disoriented I was after finding out the information and wanting other people to…Not wanting other people to feel that way, but wanting other people to know that as Indigenous youth, we are feeling that way.
I don't want to speak for everyone, but I know with Waanishka it's been a big topic of our group chat and it's just like, how's everyone doing today? What kind of sports do you need? Because how do you deal with that? How do you deal with knowing that hundreds of your people were just killed for no reason besides the fact that they were Indigenous?
Shireen: Yeah. And I think that that’s something that is difficult to grapple with for any age, and particularly being youth it's so upsetting, like you said. You said something about the dismantling of lineages and that just gave me chills because that's precisely what genocide is, and a word that's being used…Not used, rather, by this country to acknowledge…There’s like debates in media and debates here and there where you're using it and that’s part of this resistance is to change the language as well, is to use the appropriate language around this. And so is volleyball for you in your time of grief…And I just wanted to mention, you mentioned your brother a couple of times; your brother Adrian passed away from cancer three years ago?
Averie: Just over four years.
Shireen: Four. So, did you use volleyball as a means of healing? Is that what the sport has also for you?
Averie: Yeah, I think it's been a huge way of connecting. When he passed away, I wasn't sure…It was on a Wednesday and I had a camp to go to on the Saturday and I really wanted to go to this camp, and on the Friday we had a grad all star game that I was playing in. So one of my really good friends drove in from Brandon to come and take me to this game. And I forgot my shoes, so another one of my old teammates, her brother let me borrow his shoes. [laughter] And it was just like the biggest mess of a day ever. We went to the…There’s like a brunch before, and my brother's coach was the one I'm seeing. So this is the day after, and his coach is emceeing this beautiful ceremony for all the graduating all stars and then everyone in the room kind of just lost it. Like, he was like, and yesterday we lost one of our community members and everyone just…And I remember feeling…
There was multiple people that I'd never talked to in my life, that I'd never played against, who came up to me and were like, if you ever need anything or if your family needs anything, like, here's my phone number, here's my Instagram. Like, please reach out. And there were people from all over Manitoba, like girls from Dauphin, girls from Brandon. And I'm like, I don't know how I'm ever gonna get past this without these people. It was October when I announced that I was coming to the US and so my coach fully knew of my brother's situation and I just…After he passed away, I wasn't too sure what was going to happen after that and if I was still going to go away for school. I wanted to stay at home with my mom or…What was going to happen? And then, yeah, that was the year that summer games happened as well.
Shireen: And you won a gold medal in the summer games.
Averie: Yeah, that was a really long summer. But yeah, we ended up winning the gold at home, which was insane. It was such a fun thing to be a part of. And that was kind of the first thing that got me back out of the house after my brother had passed away. It was February and there was this weightlifting camp that was suggested if you wanted to try out, and if you know volleyball or any kind of sport, if something is suggested you should probably do it. [Shireen laughs] So my mom said, you're going. And I said, no, I already weightlift with my other coach. I don't want to go. She's like, no, I'm dragging your butt down there and you're going to do something besides sit around the house and do nothing.
So I went, and two of my club teammates were there too. That's actually where I met my current boyfriend. And that just one and a half hours of weightlifting was like…We did it I think three times a week, and that was the highlight of my day every time we went. And the more I just kept playing the more I realized how much I needed my teammates and how much playing made me feel so close to him. I got to wear his number that season. One of my really good friends let me switch numbers with her. [laughs]
Shireen: What position did Adrian play?
Averie: He was a middle blocker. Yeah.
Shireen: Oh, he was pretty tall then!
Averie: Yeah. He was 6’4”, I want to say.
Shireen: Wow. Did you ever pepper together?
Averie: Yes. Very competitively. [Shireen laughs] The only reason I played volleyball was because he did. He wasn't the most athletic person. He was good at volleyball, but he couldn't skate. He tried curling. He tried soccer. Tried basketball. [laughs] And I was a high-level ringette player and he couldn't skate – so that was good for me, that I was a lot better than him at that. And then he played volleyball and I said, mom…It was like halfway through the volleyball season. I said, you have to put me on the volleyball team! Like, he can't be better than me at this. My mom was like, Averie, no, that's a stupid reason to play. [laughter] Then I ended up playing, but…
Shireen: I mean, I have an older brother and the reason I started playing soccer is because he did. The reason I played hockey is because he did.
Averie: Exactly.
Shireen: He's the one who helped train me. I remember him taking me on the side and doing that. What's the age difference between you and Adrian?
Averie: Just a year. He was born in January and I was born in the following April.
Shireen: But he had you on height though?
Averie: Yes, he did. [Shireen laughs] Everyone assumed we were twins, though. Almost everyone. [laughs]
Shireen: So, I mean, I'm hearing you say that sports provided you a community to help with your grief. And at the same time, I'm hopeful that when volleyball starts up again safely – hopefully it will in the fall – that this can also provide you with a wider community, as people learn about Indigenous trauma and they're able to do that, because you're sort of working through so many levels of things, right? And how you said that sport provides you community. I think that's really beautiful, important. I think one of the ways that sports actually helps us is to provide that chosen family. And, you know, your competitiveness with Adrian aside, his spirit being there with you is so…Like, what a wonderful thing to honor him. And you said that your coach was very supportive of you. Is this something, walking with Rory, that you would maybe suggest to other teams to do, even if they don't have Indigenous players on? Is there ways…
Averie: Yeah, for sure. I was really surprised to see the amount of people who reposted my second walking post, and I've been thinking a lot about reaching out to the different teams just here at my university and being like, hey, if anyone would rather walk for an hour instead of practice one night, I'd be more than happy to let you know where I'm walking that day. And, you know, we can have those hard conversations. That's the important thing about walking with other people is that, you know, when I walk with my teammates, we talk about not just the things that are bothering me, but like, my teammates have questions, as you know, people who went to schools that didn't teach Indigenous history. And not that I…I definitely don't know as much as a lot of other Indigenous women or peoples, but I try to learn and to teach and educate on these issues so that the systemic oppression cycle doesn't just keep going. And I would love nothing more than to walk with other people from other teams, or even if they were in other provinces or across Turtle Island, if they wanted to do their own walks and raise money for other foundations that are doing their best to educate and to give schools the means to educate their children, then I would love that more than anything else.
Shireen: Yeah, that sounds like this perfect use of athleticism and intelligence. I mean, you're just such a poised, incredibly–
Averie: [laughs] Thank you.
Shireen: Really, it's an honor to speak with you about this. So, you do a tremendous amount of labor, not just on the court as a setter. Not just in play and being competitive, but you do a lot of labor outside of that as racialized folks often do and marginalized communities often do, educating other people. So what do you do for downtime other than Rory, who I'm assuming is fabulous. But other than ice cream, which I know you love, [Averie laughs] and as you were learning to sit still and sit in those moments, what does taking care of Averie, like a self-care day, look like for you?
Averie: Well, today actually I have a day off, so I like to clean, [Shireen laughs] which is so strange, and that's not a good “take a break” thing. That's one of my coping mechanisms, that I clean a lot. But I think a rest day…It's bad that I don't know what a rest day looks like. [laughs]
Shireen: Yeah. I’m like, you’re pausing to think about how you take care of yourself!
Averie: I like to read, but again, like that comes with, like, I like to read anti-oppressive education books, so that's not really… [Shireen laughs] I don't know. [laughs]
Shireen: No, it's okay. It's a journey.
Averie: I do like to plant, that's one thing. Gardens and plants. Before Rory and I would plant everything, I just wanted all the plants. [laughs]
Shireen: Well, you know what, I'm a terrible gardener, but I will let you in on a secret that my basil is flourishing and I will DM you a photo of her. I don't want to put it publicly, because I don't want her to get too much attention.
Averie: [laughs] Yeah, for sure.
Shireen: But what I was going to say is, for all of our listeners, where can they go to support your walking with Rory? Where do they go?
Averie: There's a link in my Instagram. My Instagram's @averie_allard, and there's a link in my bio to the GoFundMe and we're raising money for Legacy of Hope Foundation, and they do a lot of work in the community. They're actually based in Toronto, I believe. They do a lot of work in the community to make sure that schools have what they need and the information they need and the people that they can connect to to do the work in reconciliation and to make sure that students are aware of residential schools, because you know, that is a huge part of the past of the land that we live on. And I think that as people who live here, we just need to know and be aware about it and, and to do our best to reconcile the past is better as we can. And walk.
I just encourage you to walk and think about the things that, whether or not you're a settler, just walk and use that time to think about how can you better yourself or the system that you partake in, whether it's education, whether you're a student or whether you're a professional, and wherever it may be there's always…You know, the language, the practices, they all take such a big part in the outcomes that reinforce the language and whatnot. So it's just be a little bit better every day, and on a personal level that can make systemic changes.
Shireen: That's amazing. You're formidable. And you're welcome on this podcast any time.
Averie: Thank you!
Shireen: And University of Saskatchewan women's volleyball just got a huge group of fans. [Averie laughs] I can tell you that much. I can't wait to follow your journey, and we'll be adding your Instagram to the show notes when this episode drops and, you know, we wish you all the best, and thank you for being on Burn It All Down and sharing this vulnerability and sharing this with us and your journey. You know, have fun with Rory and give him a couple of hugs from us, please.
Averie: We will, for sure.
Shireen: This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Our social media manager is Shelby Weldon.