Episode 224: Postseason Palooza

In this episode, Brenda Elsey, Shireen Ahmed and Lindsay Gibbs analyze various playoff and postseason structures. But first, they share their 2021 Halloween costumes. Then, they dive into the various meanings of "postseason," breaking down the overlapping and crossover tournaments of European leagues, how different postseason styles impact men's and women's leagues, as well as predictions for 2021 World Series Champs.

Following this discussion is a preview of Brenda's interview with Dr. Jennifer Doyle about the culture and systems that allow sexual assault in sport to exist. Then, they burn the worst of sport this week in the Burn Pile. Next, they celebrate those changing sports for good, including WNBA Champions, the Chicago Sky and MVP Kahleah Copper. They wrap up the show with what's good in their lives and what they are watching in sports this week.

This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Brenda: Welcome to this week of Burn It All Down. It's the feminist sports podcast you need. I'm Brenda Elsey, and I am here with Shireen Ahmed and Lindsay Gibbs. This week, we are going to talk about postseasons, playoffs, anything that goes beyond a “regular season,” and the stories that touch us that are behind these things [laughs] that we're going to struggle to define – how it affects women differently, how different sports approach a postseason. And then we will go on to throw a bunch of bullshit that happened in sports this week on a proverbial burn pile, and celebrate the people who are trying to change things. Before all that…I love Halloween. Everybody knows I love Halloween. So, I'm so excited that we get to keep top of the show Halloween-oriented, and I'm going to ask my co-hosts about their costumes. Shireen?

Shireen: So, I'm actually dressing up as the Canadian minister of defense, otherwise known as Steph Labbé. [Brenda laughs] I’ve decided that that is my costume. 

Brenda: Can you explain to listeners who are not WoSo folks?

Shireen: Yes. So, Stephanie Labbé is actually the starting goalkeeper for the Canadian women's national soccer team, and Paris Saint-Germain in France. Some of our listeners may or may not know that the Canadian women won gold in the Olympics. So, as the gold medal winning keeper – we won on pens – she was quickly dubbed the Canadian minister of defense. So, that's what I'm going to do. And I'm excited about that.

Brenda: How are you going to pull that costume off?

Shireen: Okay. So, I'm basically going to take all my daughter’s goalkeeping stuff. And I already know I'm going to wear the little headband that she has, on top of a black hijab, but I'm basically going to cop all of Jihad’s goalkeeping gear for this, and her gloves included, and a ball. And I think it'll work. 

Brenda: I think so, too. That sounds amazing. Linz, I know you're a huge costume person. [Shireen laughs] What did you come down on this year? 

Lindsay: I will not be dressing up, personally. But the dog bar that we love to go to will have a Halloween party. And so I do think I'm going to have to go to Amazon – I'm sorry, I'm lazy, and going into a Halloween store right now sounds like a nightmare. But Mo must be costumed. 

Shireen: Definitely 

Brenda: Yeah, you don’t want them to feel left out. 

Lindsay: No, no, no, no. So, I'll be all in on the dog costume, and maybe I'll just wear one of my aggressively progressive shirts just to give people in North Carolina a little scare, a little spook. [laughs]

Brenda: Ha ha! I love that. I did that last night with my “keep abortion legal” shirt, accompanied by my halo and my angel wings – since I could say it was a message from the gods. And it was really, really fun. I love dressing up. Okay. Well, happy Halloween, everybody!

So, we're always, it seems, in the midst of a postseason, for some sport or the other. I remember having breaks from sports when I was little, and it feels now like it's a constant extension of postseasons with new tournaments, et cetera. This past week, the gender committee at FIFA, the newly “scientifically formed” – I'm putting this in air quotes –committee was discussing making the World Cup more frequent. Football's really weird – or soccer – already, and most people in the US, even Ted lasso fans, find it odd because there are overlapping tournaments, tournaments within the season, tournaments before the season, tournaments after the season. Many, many, many different cups. And there are stories and social histories behind all of those, but it's pretty confusing if you didn't grow up that way.

And now we're in the midst of the baseball playoffs, and I have to be honest, I mean, I don't know if I have the staying power to just watch a postseason for this long. So anyway, I'm kind of fascinated by the concept. Why do we need it? How does it affect women differently? What are the politics of it? And, you know, what we see in terms of this World Cup anyway, is this push and pull between revenue and actual fan interest and drama. So, I want to start out just with a general question about how you reacted to the FIFA news or the NWSL having some new tournaments, et cetera. Shireen?

Shireen: Well, I mean, I think that there's always a place for expansion, but what I think about when I think about expansion from FIFA is the type of…Let’s consider soccer a beautiful forest. It's like this deforestation to be honest. I feel like, as opposed to expansion, they believe in this materialistic capitalist system, and there's a place to amplify and grow the game certainly; I don't love this, and I think they're using off-season or postseason spaces to create and generate as much money as possible. Is this helping the players? Is this unifying, building teams? Is this creating fan bases? I don't believe so. I think this is a money grab.

I have absolutely no faith in FIFA in terms of doing something from an honest perspective, even if they argue women…And I mean, with NWSL, new tournaments, I have a lot of questions. Like, I just have a lot of questions on how they’d go, irrespective of when. And I want to make sure it's safe for the athletes. That's one of the things, because if you're playing all the time and your body doesn't get a rest, what does that look like? That's one of my biggest concerns.

Brenda: Right. I mean, it's strange when they can't even really get together a Continental Cup. [Shireen laughs] Like, we don't really…You know what I mean? Like, we don't really have the domestic leagues that play off among nations, like the Champions League, in South America, for women – even though they're supposed to, the Libertadores. And we don't have it at all for North America, and they never schedule matches, FIFA friendlies. I mean, they almost never do. So, I don't know what that looks like, and I'm not surprised to see it's just US and European women, so far as I can tell, on this scientific committee. So, they're making the argument that they want to develop the game in other places, but I don't really see anyone represented there. Linz?

Lindsay: First of all, I love that the more we do this podcast together, the more we all start to sound like each other, like having Shireen rail against capitalism, I was like, oh my god, like, we've got a Brenda situation here. This is perfect. [laughter] But yeah, I mean, none of this is surprising. I think there's such a lack of creativity and vision when it comes to women's sports. So, the fact that it's just like, let's take the organizations that are established, and what if we just do more of this one thing that actually gets attention? As opposed to doing the hard work of building up the infrastructures globally. And so it just seems to me like such a…I don't know, a cop-out, just like a bandaid – except a bandaid that would probably make things worse, [laughs] because it would just kind of overcrowd the schedule and continue to make the successful countries more successful while leaving the others that don't have the infrastructure and development and competitions in the dust.

So, I hope that maybe this committee can lead to some good things, right? Like, you know, it's always good to get stakeholders, actual stakeholders and experts, in a room together to talk about how to further develop women's sports. But I surely hope the starting point is not the ending point of this committee.

Brenda: Right. I mean, it is nice to see Alex Morgan on a committee, any committee. She can join all my committees. So, I'm excited to see a current player. But yeah, it felt really strange and it feels like more of a rubber stamping. But hopefully they'll rabble rouse themselves out of doing that for Infantino. You know, it's funny because a lot of these cups, they have really interesting histories. So, it feels weird, but like it might be, oh, this league was all union teams, you know, and they play for a particular cup that started in the 1890s. And so this club that came out of, you know, heavy metal unions, and this one that came out of mining unions, and this one that came out of transport unions, and then they play each other and it made sense. And I feel like some of that initial logic and stories don't really make sense in the women's game.

And when you say creativity, Linz, I think that's exactly the point. There’s ways in which you could start that and you could create and foster that and think about what made those men's tournaments exciting and important to communities. And I don't think they're doing that at all. At all, at all. Okay. So, thinking beyond soccer or within soccer still, what was the WNBA like for you, Linz? What did you think about this postseason we just finished? 

Lindsay: It was so, so good. Of course, if you listen to last week's episode, you know that I was in Chicago for game four, which of course the Chicago Sky ended up winning, and…Look, if you're down, if you're feeling blue, I highly recommend going into a sold out arena full of die hard fans cheering on a women's team for a championship. Like, that's just good balm for the soul, and a good fuck you to anyone who says women's sports don't matter, or that nobody cares. Like, just the pure joy in that. I don't think the WNBA playoff format is perfect, but I do like the way it tries to kind of combine two things that I love about postseasons. One, which is this kind of sudden death, one game means all final four type aspect. And, you know, they have that with the first two rounds, which are just one game. And then, you know, for the semis and the final, you do have these series, which are five game series. And I love seeing series as well. I love seeing teams try to adjust to one another. Do you know what I mean?

And I think series are where you really get rivalries, because you have to keep coming back, and you get to learn so much about players and so much about coaches during a series. And so I think always with the WNBA, I'm just left wanting a little bit more, you know? Like, I wish we could just have more of everything. And of course the reason we can't is because the players have to go overseas to play. And so it's kind of frustrating. Like, it goes to this whole postseason thing and the fact that WNBA players don't have an off season, so they go straight from the playoffs to overseas, to Europe. And the reason they can't keep extending the playoffs anymore is really because of that. And so you know, I dunno, it just brings a lot of these different elements together, but overall I do really love having both. I love having the sudden death and one game all and that intensity, and I love that we get some longer series – although I'd like them to be even longer, please.

Shireen: One of the things I was going to add to, for those that are like, well, why do they go overseas? I mean, the reason is really clear, that the salaries are not high enough, and most of the time it's a monetary factor that's pulling them overseas, because we saw, you know, the more you have…You don't have time to rest. Your body gets exhausted. You're prone to injury. So this really does come down to we need to be paying them more. I was working on some project recently and I was looking at the salaries of, comparison wise, and Candace Parker makes about $190,000 a year, which for some people it’s like, whoa, that's a lot of money. Well, not when the average NBA salary is like $7 million. So, I think that's something that we really need to think about. It's like a percentage. And then that also contributes to the lack of, like Lindsay is saying, an extended postseason. And I think the WNBA season is one of the type of playoffs that only gets more exciting every single year. Like, it really, really builds, and I love that it's building because we get to be a part of that, but it's like wildly fun.

And, you know, playoffs are fun. They can be a little bit…You know, for people like myself who have anxiety, it's not always great. And then I tried to do this thing that's called getting into baseball. I became an avid diehard Blue Jays fan in the end of August, conveniently. But baseball is wild, y’all. They don't even have a system that's normal. I had, for those of you that might know, I did a hot take with Kamila Hinkson, baseball editor from The Athletic, and we talked specifically about this, and it made no sense. I literally needed her to come on and explain what their postseason, their playoffs look like, because I couldn't follow. So, you know, it's good. I would prefer playoffs with a traditional format so I don't have to think too much, but that's just me. 

Brenda: [laughs] Well, I mean, I like single elimination. I really do, because I feel like every single second matters. Like, everything is thought out, and it feels so tense, and it's just like, I get it. Like, I totally understand what you both are saying about relationships forming and rivalries and how coaches get to develop a kind of game plan and then switch it up and stuff like that. But I love the Libertadores and the Champs League single elimination finals. I love the World Cup single elimination finals. Every time they're like, “We're going to make it a three game…” I'm like, shut the fuck up. Like, do not do that. Because I just feel like every touch, you're just hanging, you're just hanging on every touch. I don't even tune in to baseball that I'm interested in until the seventh inning. Like, why? 

Lindsay: Same. Same.

Brenda: Yeah. I mean, much less many games. So I'm like, man, I don't really want them to change anything. And I also have this creepy feeling that a lot of this has to do with betting. We've talked a little bit about the billions of dollars that go into sports betting, and the postseason betting is a whole other category, right? So you can, at the beginning of the season, not only bet on the season, but you can bet on the postseason, and then you get like a nine to one versus like, you know, whatever. I'm not betting. I'm just reading about it. [laughs] Linz?

Lindsay: Yeah. I mean, I think it's really interesting. You're totally right. Like, ultimately this is all capitalism, right? So, if you see the NBA playoffs, they've just gotten longer and longer and longer throughout the years. We're now like every series is best of seven, and I can't get into the first round at all because it's just longer. And now they are doing this play in game format, trying to kind of bring the excitement, which I like, because it makes the regular season more important. I felt…I’m not the only one, but you know, the last two months of the regular season have meant nothing in the NBA for years, basically, [laughs] just because, you know, as long as you're into the playoffs, that's the most important part; rest of your stars type thing.

So, you know, I like mechanisms that try and kind of make the regular season a bit more important and create that interest. But ultimately every time I hear about NBA trying to make the playoffs more exciting and maybe shortening some series, it comes down to they're not going to do that because the owners won't get as much money, right? And so that's always kind of a frustration of mine. Also, it's been very interesting to see the WNBA, and there's talks of this happening in the NBA, like, borrow some from soccer and start going into having these midseason tournaments which are things that I don't understand really at all, because the way I consume sports has been so American focused.

So, the WNBA this year had the Commissioner's Cup, and it was basically like certain games played during the regular season counted towards Commissioner's Cup points, and then when we came back from All Star break/this year Olympic break, you know, there was a champion. And so the Seattle Storm won the championship and there was money involved. There are a lot of people really critical of it. I thought…I’m all for innovation, and like, if you get more people to sponsor things, I’m not against it. And the first year is rough. But like, how does soccer – especially, I’ve noticed, like European soccer – balance all these different cups? And how do you know what matters, when? It seems very confusing to me.

Brenda: It’s a mess.

Shireen: After baseball, nothing is confusing. [laughter]

Brenda: No, it is.

Shireen: No, but like, it's regional, Lindsay. You check on regions and what happens. It's just, that's why the Champs League is so fun, because it's all the different regions together.

Brenda: In Europe. 

Shireen: In Europe. But it also makes sense when you've been doing something. Like golf – I don't necessarily understand the scoring, but it makes sense when you do it for so long. So you basically have to immerse yourself in football, and you will be fine. So what I'm hearing you say is you want me and Brenda to start a WhatsApp group with you and put in Forza there, and you will be immersed in football. That's what I'm hearing. 

Brenda: No, Lindsay, don't do it. Live. [Lindsay laughs] No, I mean, it doesn't make sense.

Lindsay: No, but do you understand why it's confusing? Because it's like, games count for multiple things. Like, you've got your country, you got your leagues, and then the Champions League. It’s a lot.

Brenda: Right. So, what you have basically is you have domestic leagues that are professional, right?

Lindsay: They’re country based, right? They’re per country.

Brenda: Right. And it starts with levels. So, you have the Premier League, but you also have the English League. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you might have three leagues, four leagues of professional footballers in a particular country. Those are just your domestic clubs. And like I say, they come out of unions, neighborhoods, universities, whatever. And so those leagues have cups mid-season. They don't always play each other all the time. So the cup brings together different leagues, right? Then you've got your national team, and your national team plays in a confederation like South America, Asia, Europe. Then you've got all of FIFA, where both the professional clubs play across borders. So you might have like PSG in the French league playing Barcelona in the Spanish league in the Euros, right? In the Champions League. Same thing happens in every confederation. Then you've got the whole world club thing, and then you've got the national teams.

So it's like, this is what makes it so confusing, is that you have all these overlapping things. And I think it's wild to think that the WNBA would take the same teams in the same league and have a tournament. That makes no sense to me at all. Like, that just blows my mind. There is a reason these teams don’t…So, Real Madrid and Barcelona may find themselves replaying each other for a certain cup, but they may not. Do you know what I mean? Like the WNBA, these people are just playing each other all season and then they just replay each other for a cup makes no sense to me. I don't know. Shireen, did I do an okay job there?

Shireen: Do, you did. [Brenda laughs] And I loved that Clásico example as well. Like, you'll find Real Madrid and Barcelona possibly meet in the Champs League. Then they'll meet in La Liga, then they'll meet another club world cup. Like, it's all over the place. Essentially, you just find the team that you want, the match you want to watch, and then you figure out later…I look for matches on Forza that are happening, and then I figure out later what they're happening for. [Lindsay laughs]

Brenda: Yes. Yes. 

Lindsay: See, that’s so backwards to my thinking. Do you know what I mean? Like, my thinking is, the playoff itself is the intrigue, and then whatever teams you put in there, you hope it'd be a good matchup. But it's the stakes itself that makes it interesting. But you do it kind of backwards. So, that's fascinating. 

Shireen: So, I'm a little chaotic. I'm Aquarius. We talk a lot about that here sometimes. And so this chaos of soccer works for me, the organized chaos. But I mean, essentially what Brenda is saying is that two different teams can meet for many, many different reasons, in different places. And sometimes the cups and those competitions are just formalities, in my opinion, because really the only thing that matters to me is the Champs League. The theme song, that I would love inserted here, Tressa… [Brenda laughs] That is my wedding song. And I feel like that is the best tournament of all time.

Brenda: Yes. But again, so this is really interesting – that song is just in there to make you think that the Champs League is old and distinguished.

Shireen: And I love that. I love it.

Brenda: But the Champs League is new, and so they just do this [angelic choral vocalizing] and they just do that so you think, “forever.” Like, the Premier League is such a baby, like it's so young, but they give it things like, [fake British accent] “the Premier League,” like it's been around for centuries. And, you know, it really hasn't. [Shireen laughs] And so one of the things that this brings up, I think, is a similar situation. Linz, and I wonder if you'd like to see this – you might – would be, could you take like the WNBA teams champs to play whoever won the European league?

Lindsay: You could, except because the WNBA season happens in the other…They’d be the same players on both teams. [laughs] Breanna Stewart would have to do double duty here, right? Because she’s doing both. And I think you are seeing a little bit more of that in women's soccer. Like, the NWSL I know has been hosting…There’s been some tournaments between international teams. And those are really, I think, exciting and cool. I love seeing that. 

Brenda: Yeah. I love that.

Lindsay: So, okay. This has been helpful. I feel like I understand a little bit more, but I also feel like sometimes when people explain things to me, I think, oh, I should never have been confused! That's not how I feel now. That's not how I feel now. I feel like this is, yes, it’s still very confusing to me, [laughs] but I do feel like I have a better sense of it. And, I don’t know, I think it's just cool how different teams and different leagues and different countries, how these traditions kind of come about for the postseason. And different things work for well for different sports, and I kinda think that's cool.

Brenda: I do too. And in the postseason we're in now, I just want to end this by asking you just a fun question of the moment. So we're down to the Dodgers, the Astros, the Red Sox and the Atlanta team in the World Series contention. Do you have any favorites? Does anyone care?

Shireen: So, my baseball love emanated from the Blue Jays obviously, and I kind of was like where the hottest players are. So at this point, that's kind of what I'm thinking about. And I don't know, I'll have to do a deep dive. But Red Sox are Boston. And I have a general visceral reaction to oppose anything from Boston ever. [Brenda laughs] So I will be like, no to that. So I don't know. I don't know the baseball well enough beyond the Jays, so I will do whatever bandwagon feels the best for me. 

Brenda: I think at Burn It All Down we're not a big fan of the ways in which the Atlanta team has continued to use the racist gestures. So my guess is that if I had to speak for my co-hosts, we wouldn't like to see that behavior rewarded. I don't know. Linz?

Lindsay: Yes. I agree, except like, so…And I think we talked about this a little bit last week where there's no MLB team in North Carolina or South Carolina. And so growing up, the only baseball I would watch was watching Atlanta in the World Series and rooting for Atlanta. And so I do have some nostalgia, like seeing them back in the World Series, I believe for the first time since ’99, since I would watch that in middle school and stuff. So, I do have an attachment to them, more so than I do for…I mean, I'm definitely not rooting for Boston. Houston, I can't root for right now. The Astros, I really have a hard time rooting for, for obvious reasons. So, I might actually root for them even though they're horrible, but that's life. [laughter] Like, I don't know. But I agree, they need to stop all the awfulness. I don't know. 

Brenda: It's hard. It’s hard.

Lindsay: Ugh. It’s complicated!

Brenda: As always on this show, there's no straightforward answers. This week, I sit down with Dr. Jennifer Doyle to discuss sexual assault in sport. How we can understand its pervasive and pernicious affects.

Jennifer Doyle: In sports, what we have is a deeply hierarchical structure that manages your access to pleasure and to the game, and also holds out the kind of carrot of enormous success, whether that be representing your country on a national team or having corporate endorsements, becoming a celebrity. It's a really asymmetrical power system. And, like the church, like university structures, like the military, these kinds of deeply hierarchical structures are ones in which harassment flourishes. Harassment loves that dynamic.

Brenda: And now it's time for everybody's favorite segment, where we discuss all of the terrible things that happened this week in sport and throw them on the proverbial burn pile. I am going to start. It's short and sweet. It's a continuation, for Evander Kane, and I think he's been on the burn pile before. I feel like he's still kind of steaming from prior behavior, but this week I'm throwing him on for his attempt to submit a fake COVID-19 vaccination card to the San Jose Sharks to continue to play, despite not being vaccinated. He is now suspended for 21 games and he will lose $1.68 million of his $7 million salary. And I want to burn the fact…Well, on so many levels. First, that you would lie about this is just absolutely disgusting.

Secondly, that you think you're smarter than anyone else in the room, to submit a fake card? Like, what? Who are you? You're just like, well, I saw somebody's card and I'm going to get a piece of construction paper and cut out a card…Like, what? You have to have some real hubris to go around thinking that you're going to submit this fake vaccination card. Nobody's going to check. Everybody's going to take your word for it. And I want to burn the fact that he probably thinks that, because he's gotten away with being violent towards his wife, with having people trust him on all kinds of levels when they shouldn't probably. So, anyway, I want to burn the fact that what this reveals about his character, what this says about the anti-vax movement, if that's a thing. And it's also kind of a happy burn because he's actually in trouble for something. So yeah. Burn. Burn his fake vax card.

All: Burn.

Brenda: So wild. Okay. Shireen. 

Shireen: Okay, so…I'm so tired. Islamophobia and racism is just so old. It's just…Can we not? So, I'll start off by explaining that, for those that don't know, Newcastle United is a team in the English Premier League. It's a men's football team, and it was recently bought for 305 million pounds by the Saudi public investment fund. So basically this is a team that's got all this money. It's not the first time we've seen Middle Eastern or Gulf money and oil money invested into football. And it's not the first time I've ever thought or understood about corruption. But that aside, to quote-unquote “honor” the new owners, Newcastle United fans decided to wear tea towels on their head and attend the games at St. James Park last week. Now, if you want to honor something, to copy someone in that way is not it. It's just not it. It’s a culture, not a costume.

And I know we're hitting Halloween and this is a time particularly when super offensive cultural appropriation happens, but Newcastle United fans, you want to big up the owners? Don't be racist in your overtures. That's not necessary. It's really not. I'm sure you can find a better way. Make some shawarma at home and eat it with your family. You don't need to do this. Like, it's just embarrassing. So, Newcastle United actually had to send out a memo to its team, its fan bases and communities, saying, “Please don't do this, it could be construed as offensive.”

And just actually jumping off of that, this was reported yesterday, and this is a continuation of this. Crystal Palace fans, who were playing Newcastle United yesterday, held up a banner, which is now being investigated by police because it was so offensive. Essentially, it was the depiction of a Saudi prince, like a Saudi man surrounded by Premier League chief executive Richard Masters, surrounded by blood. But that depiction of a Saudi man is brown, he's holding a sword, and it says, “Premier League owners test: terrorism, beheading, civil rights abuses, murder, censorship and persecution.” Now, I'm not out here to be like the Saudi regime is anything but terrible. Like, listen, they are. There’s no question.

But again, there's a way to critique a system that's horrible and a regime that's unjust without being racist about it. Crystal Palace fans, you haven't figured that one out. So I want to take all of this…Because I seriously get a headache. Put your tea towels away, focus on something else. Focus on being effective in your criticism and your analysis, because this ain't it. I want to take all of this bullshit and I want to burn. Burn.

All: Burn.

Brenda: Linz?

Lindsay: Yeah, I want to put a trigger warning here for abuse and self harm. Skip forward a few minutes if you want to take care of yourself today. But I want to put Dalilah Sappenfield, a US Olympics pairs figure skating coach, onto the burn pile. This is a story that came out a couple of weeks ago from Christine Brennan of USA Today, who has done phenomenal reporting on abuse in figure skating. Sappenfield has been temporarily banned by the US Center for SafeSport because of allegations of misconduct, and she's also barred from coaching or having any contact with about a dozen figure skaters. One of those skaters, Tara Kayne, the 2016 US pairs champion, who talked with Christine Brennan, USA Today. about the allegations that she submitted to SafeSport.

This is a quote from Tara. “She,” – referring to Sappenfield – “was constantly talking about sex, about who I was dating, about my sex life. It was completely inappropriate, but that's what Dalilah does. She uses gossip from other skaters in the rink against you. She knew I was struggling with my mental health, but instead of helping me, she chose to make fun of me. She even went to other skaters and told them about it, calling me names and asking the guys why anyone would want to date me.”

In the summer of 2019 at the US Olympic training center in Colorado Springs, things got so bad that Kayne self-harmed. She went to her skating partner, Danny O’Shea, and told him about it, but they were so afraid that if she went to the emergency room, that Sappenfield would be so angry about that. So instead, she and O'Shea super-glued her skin together to stop the bleeding. Kayne told Christine that in her head she thought she was gonna die that night, but she was still too afraid to go to the hospital. Over the next couple of weeks she tried to hide her scar, but Sappenfield found out and wasn't concerned about her wellbeing. Instead, pulled her aside and said, “Why don't you just go out and screw the entire men's gymnastics team?” Kanye had planned to continue skating with O'Shea and go for the 2022 Winter Olympics, but because of the abuse that changed, and it ended her career, ultimately.

Things also worth noting here, that Sappenfield was the coach and good friend of John Coughlin, the two time national pairs champion, who died by suicide in 2019, just one day after he received an interim suspension from SafeSport due to three allegations of sexual abuse. So, there's layers to this abuse. The world of figure skating, just like the world of so many sports, is in the midst of a reckoning and it has a long way to go. And I do want to say, I am glad that we're focusing on not just sexual abuse, which of course needs to be run out, but mental and emotional and verbal abuse as well. And as we see in here, as we see many examples of, women can uphold this abuse too, and women need to be held accountable for their coaching style. So, kudos to Tara for speaking out, and burn, burn, burn everything that Sappenfield is accused of.

All: Burn.

Brenda: After all that burning, now we move on to people who are trying to change things in sport for the better, who have made amazing accomplishments and who we're admiring. Honorable mentions for torchbearers of the week go to luchadores: Morgan State becomes the only HBCU with Div 1 wrestling. Shireen?

Shireen: The dragon slayer, Katie Guay, the first woman to officiate an American Hockey League game. She reffed a game between the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins and the Lehigh Valley Phantoms last Saturday.

Brenda: Linz?

Lindsay: Our fire spitter of the week is Lisa Byington. She's the first woman play by play announcer in the NBA. She is with the Milwaukee Bucks calling their games this season. So, she's been on this list before, and she continues to blaze trails. 

Brenda: Other trailblazers for this week include the Puerto Rican women's ice hockey team, which won the very first Amerigol Latam Cup in Florida. They have some adorable pictures up in Sports Illustrated of how excited they are. So, check it out if you can. Shireen?

Shireen: Okay. [laughter] This is flame mignon, y’all. I love it. I love that so much. Flame mignon! That’s amazing, Brenda, you’re a genius. Congrats to the 20 women who are nominated for the Ballon d’Or, including Burn It All Down favorites Christine Sinclair and Christiane Endler. 

Brenda: Did you see what I did there, with the French?

Shireen: I did. I love you, so much.

Brenda: Thank you, thank you.

Shireen: Flame mignon, y’all.

Brenda: Alright. So, can I get a drumroll for the torchbearers of the week?

[drumroll]

Okay. Linz?

Lindsay: Yeah, obviously we've got the WNBA champs, the Chicago Sky, and special shoutout to Copper, the finals MVP. Oh my gosh. They came from behind in that fourth quarter to win that game against the Phoenix Mercury. I've never been in a building that loud, ever. Every part of me had chills. To see Candace Parker in tears, to see Allie Quigley and Vandersloot, who've been with Chicago for so long win it as wives and get to celebrate it openly together, to see…I mean, so many stories on that team were just phenomenal. And I'm just so happy for them. You guys have to go look for pictures of the parade they had and the rally they had! Chicago showed up for them, and that just makes me so happy.

Brenda: Okay, well, in dark times we like to talk about what's good in our week. Shireen, why don't you start us off?

Shireen: Yeah. So I’m pretty thrilled about a bunch of things. I'm going on a vacation for a couple of days, which will be really fun. Just to take a break. It's been really busy. I have a project coming out that I'm really excited about that'll drop this week. I'm excited about teaching still, which is a lot of fun. My students continue to slay and be phenomenal. And I love that. Also, the Canadian women's national team has started a victory tour, which is great. And in addition to that, I broke a story yesterday which is a really big deal. Essentially, the Canadian women's national team pushed Canada Soccer to acknowledge and recognize survivors of abuse of a coach who is in court right now. Court date has been pushed up, facing nine allegations. And that had never been publicly commented on. And essentially this amazing team that should be reveling in their glory, is like, we're using this moment…They had a moment of silence yesterday, which is Saturday. We’re recording Sunday morning.

So that was a really big deal. I'm very tired. And I would like to go off grid, which may or may not happen, but I'm excited about just taking a little bit of a break. And one of the most exciting things in the world happened to me – not just breaking this story. But I went to watch curling, like, real in person curling. And I've been talking about this. I love watching it. I attended a tournament with my dear friend, Claire Hanna, and her partner Kirk Muyres – yes, of Saskatchewan curling, legendary, fame, that same person. And I didn't realize that the sheets were all in the same rink. So it's like, you've got four games happening beside each other. I always thought it was like one thing per game. That's not what happens. It's riveting. There's so much history and drama, and I didn't know that curling has this big debate right now about having an umpire or not. So they self-regulate. You guys…With the Olympics coming up, I know what my obsession will be. That's all I'm going to say, and I want to share it with you all. So thank you to Claire and Kirk, because that was so much fun.

Brenda: That's good! Congratulations on all that stuff. That's really exciting. Yeah, I mean, that's so much. I don't really know how to follow up, except that I love Halloween so much. And decorations…I have a purple tree with spiders on it and cobwebs that I put up, and then I put lights in the outside trees, like purple and orange, and I love all the colors and getting free candy. I don't like that people feel a lot of pressure to think of funny costumes or to be witty. I hate that. I would like people just to feel like they can just wear anything. So sometimes I do feel like I'm at a Halloween party and someone will clearly feel insecure about their costume. And for me, that's like making fun of accents when you're speaking a different language. Like, you go straight to hell, you know? Don't pass go. Like, it's gotta be fun, you know? So I hope people are appreciative when people put themselves out there, and I love it. I just think it's so fun.

So that's always what's good for me. I try to get myself invited to as many Halloween parties as possible. I try to weasel my way in. Let me be your plus one, please. I'll dress up. So that's great. The kids love it. We have coordinated costumes. We’re all some kind of angels this year – like fallen angels, dark angels, whatever. And, yeah, I just love Halloween week. I love everything about it. So, that's me. Uncharacteristically sunny. Linz? 

Lindsay: Yeah. You know, getting to be in Chicago last week is certainly a what's good. But also, this is my first weekend home in five weeks, and I do not travel often, and especially since COVID have not traveled often. So, it's been a little shock to my system, but I got caught up on laundry yesterday and that felt about as good as anything. [laughter]

Brenda: It does! It does.

Lindsay: I was like, that’s what’s good. Like, I have clean clothes. That’s what's good. Fall’s great, and I know I'm missing some things…Oh! I’m fully on board the Succession train. Oh my god. Succession. I'm very excited because tonight will be the first night I get to watch it live with Twitter. So, everyone needs to be watching it. Oh my gosh.

Brenda: Oh! Good. Okay. I love when I can follow that advice from co-hosts. What about what we're watching for this week? Anybody excited about something this week in sports?

Lindsay: Yeah. We got the World Series, and I will be watching some NFL, some football. NWSL, we’re down to the wire with…I think this is the last full week of games. And of course the NBA is back, and I am going to be all in on the Charlotte Hornets this year. I've decided. This team is just very lovable, the type of lovability that will destroy my life. So, you know, I'm all in. 

Brenda: Nice, nice. Shireen, you looking forward to anything?

Shireen: Yeah, I still love the Champs League. I will continue to watch it. I love September coming around for the reason that re-emerges women's football in Europe, is fun. Also, as I mentioned, this episode comes out on Tuesday. That night is the a women's victory tour, the Canadian national team. And it can be watched on OneSoccer. It's actually not being showcased on any major networks, which is another problem with women's sports. But you can find it on OneSoccer. And one more thing I wanted to say is curling. Right now, there is a big tournament happening in Oakville. And by the time this episode goes to air, the tournament would be over, but hopefully you did catch some of the series. 

Brenda: Okay. That's it for this episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. Follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Listen, subscribe and rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn. For show links and transcripts, please check out our website, burnitalldown.pod.com. You'll also find a link to merch at our Bonfire store. And thank you to our patrons. Your support means the world. If you want to become a patron and a donor to the show, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. I'm Brenda Elsey, and on behalf of my co-hosts here, burn on and not out.