Interview: Sabré Cook, Race Car Driver on the W Series

In this episode, Jessica Luther interviews Sabré Cook, a race car driver. They talk about how Sabré got into motor sports, barriers to entry for women in the sport and what she finds most challenging about racing. They also discuss competing in this year's W Series, an all-female racing championship. The series takes place across Europe and the U.S., wrapping up this weekend October 22-24, 2021 in Austin, Texas. Visit wseries.com to find out how to watch.

This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Jessica: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. I'm Jessica Luther. Today I'm here with Sabré Cook, a race car driver. She will be here in Austin, Texas the weekend of October 22nd racing in the W Series. I should go down to the track and watch this! Sabré, how do you describe yourself and what you do?

Sabré: So I guess, being a race car driver, your job is to basically drive to the limit of the car, tires, and track, as close as possible at all times. Obviously it gets a little different if you're sprint racing versus endurance racing, because then you have some other things to manage. But ideally your job is to optimize whatever situation you're given and extract the most from yourself and everything around you.

Jessica: That's amazing, and I want to talk about extracting that in a little bit, but I understand that you were born into motor sports. Is that a fair way to describe it? 

Sabré: Yeah. Yeah. I would say that. My dad raced motocross and Supercross professionally, and he and my mother obviously didn't want us racing motorcycles. So he found karting after he retired from racing. And so we got into karting at a young age, and just took off from there. 

Jessica: Can you explain…The word karting shows up in articles about this. What is that, like go-karting? What does that mean when you say karting?

Sabré: Yeah. So, go-karting. I guess we just call it karting. Most of the people get a little confused – we’re don't mean amusement park fun carts. [laughs] So, no, I guess it's like you can actually race, you can be a professional kart racer. And basically usually it's a single engine, and the power to weight ratio is quite…I actually need to calculate what that is, actually. Basically, we weigh…What was the weight? 365. And we would have maybe 40-ish horsepower, depending on what engine package you had. So, not too bad. And we could pull quite a lot of G-forces in the corners, just because of our really low center of gravity. Yeah. So, karting is a much different perspective than people would think when you go to Six Flags. 

Jessica: Huh That is so…You’re doing all this calculation, like, in your head right now. That's so interesting to hear you talk about karts like this. So, how old were you when you started karting? 

Sabré: I drove myself for the first time when I was almost eight. But I remember my dad got a shifter kart and I sat on his lap in a parking lot and he drove around the parking lot, very obviously slowly, in a kart maybe the year before that. But yeah, I was about eight years old the first time I drove my first one. 

Jessica: Okay. And so, I want to talk about how you go from karting to what you're doing now, but I think first it would help if people understood what kind of cars you actually drive. Like, is Indy car correct? How do you describe what kind of car it is that you're driving in the W Series?

Sabré: So, yeah, I drive a few different ones, but we'll just focus on the W Series one for now. So, the W Series is classified as an F3 car. So, Formula 3. So, I guess a lot of people will know what F1 is now, especially thanks to the Netflix documentary–

Jessica: Netflix! Yeah.

Sabré: [laughs] So, that is Formula 1. That is the top. And then every step down from that is Formula 2, or they have Super Formula. And then a step down from that is F3. So, anything that's classified in that general power to weight or chassis type is Formula 3. And then below that is Formula 4, which is even less power, usually a heavier car. So, that's basically that's it's kind of classified. It's like 1 is the top, and then 4…

Jessica: And 1 weighs less and goes faster? Is that what you’re saying?

Sabré: Not necesarily, no.

Jessica: Okay, sorry. [laughs] 

Sabré: So, a lot of it is based on power to weight ratio.

Jessica: Power to weight. Okay.

Sabré: It is power to weight, but then also the F1 car produces an extreme amount of downforce that the others do not. And F1 is unique because every team builds their own car, and with like F2, F3, F4, there is a one standard chassis that a manufacturer builds. So, all of your chassis and the engines are the same, but you have different teams that can run…Usually each team runs two cars, but essentially the cars are the same. There's some development differences that you can do if you have a team that's experienced and knows how to optimize the setup for that. But F1, yes, power to weight is much better. Lots of downforce. It's the fastest. I guess that's a good way to think about it, it's fastest. Like, F1 is the fastest, F4 is the slowest. 

Jessica: Okay. Thank you. [laughs] And so how then does one go from an eight year old karting to what you're doing now? 

Sabré: Well, it can vary a lot depending on the person. But for me, I started karting and then started racing, you know, state races in karting, then started racing national races in karting, then started racing international races in karting. And then – this is the tricky part for most people – is that jump from karting to cars, because of the financial resources that it takes.

Jessica: Okay. 

Sabré: So for me, I love karting to death, but I maybe stayed in the karting level longer than I wanted to, because it is hard to make that jump financially. So I finally got enough sponsorship in 2017 to do my first car race. But until that point I had done…Obviously I talked about the progression of the karting, and then I was essentially a professional kart racer for several years and then transitioned to cars in 2017. And then I was amateur kart racing in 2017. A SCCA is what I started in, and then eventually moved on to do a little bit of USF2000, which is basically a little bit slower than an F3, but faster than an F4. I know it gets complicated with all of the names. And I did F4 as well, a couple of races in that. And then the very next year I moved into W Series in 2019, which is the F4 cars.

Jessica: Okay. This is a perfect moment for you to explain to our listeners what the W Series is.

Sabré: So, the W Series is a relatively new series. It's the first of its kind. It was created in 2019, was our first season. And the way that it works is all of the drivers, we don't pay. Usually for motor sports, you have to bring sponsorship and funding to the teams. But with W Series, you had to go through a very extensive qualifying process in order to be selected as one of 18 active drivers in order to secure your spot. So, 60 women started and then 18 made it to the final active spots. It's the first all female series, and it was basically created because women tend to struggle to make it to that F3 step or past that, and it's usually due to lack of experience, lack of funding. And so W Series is like that step that that they wanted to create to give females more opportunity to continue to grow, continue to further their careers. And, yeah, I'm happy to be a part of that.

Jessica: So how long is a normal race in the W Series? Like how long are you racing?

Sabré: W Series is shorter, so we race 30 minutes plus one lap.

Jessica: So, everyone races for 30 minutes. What does that mean?

Sabré: So, basically as soon as the green flag goes, the clock starts at 30 minutes, and then once it gets to zero, then we have one more lap on top. So basically, say whoever's leading the race, they cross the finish line with 17 seconds left. And that means that she's going to come around again and then get the white flag. So she has to do one more. But if she were to get to the start/finish and the time has reached zero, she would then get the white flag. Does that make sense? So it's like, 30 minutes…Wherever 30 minutes ends, as soon as 30 minutes ends the next time, the leader comes around and you get the white flag.

Jessica: Got it. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, so this is really interesting. I read that it's been more than 45 years since a woman started a Formula 1 Grand Prix race. Like, just seeing that, it's clear that there are barriers to entry for women. What do you think the biggest ones are in car racing? 

Sabré: I guess with Formula car racing, majority of it is financial, struggling enough to, you know, get the funding, to get the proper seat time. Like, I think the W Series did a study on the amount of seat time that a female has in comparison to our male counterparts, in order to develop and grow throughout our career, is far far less. So, I think that's a big part of it, and that all comes down to funding. And then also having that seat time is really important to building our physical strength in order to handle the Formula cars, because until you get to F1, there's no power steering. And so when you race in GT cars, et cetera, there is power steering. And while a woman is totally capable of doing so, we're more than capable of getting there, you still need to have the right resources, the right team, the right training programs and the right amount of seat time in order to develop you so that you are physically strong enough in order to drive the cars.

Jessica: This is interesting to me for a whole host of reasons, including the longer that women don't get that opportunity, that like reinforces itself, that it's harder to prove that women deserve to be there when you can't get there. That seems like it creates itself over and over again. And I read in one of the articles that F1 is an investor-driven model, and you've kind of touched on this, but can you explain what exactly that means and how that has an impact on women?

Sabré: So, a lot of people call it pay to play, and it's not wrong. [laughs] It’s unfortunate. But so, a lot of the way that it is structured, the team doesn't necessarily…Like, if we look at professional basketball teams, they want to go out and they want to contract the best players in order to do well, bring more sponsors to the team, and be able to pay their players well and perform well. But with the teams – typically, I mean, not all of them, obviously it gets a bit different and complicated – but in the majority, the team is not required to go out and find the best drivers. Usually the drivers are the ones that have to find the sponsorship and bring it to the team.

Jessica: Hmm. Okay. Okay. And so I just imagine that's very hard for women to do. 

Sabré: It’s not impossible.

Jessica: Or harder. 

Sabré: It can be harder because sometimes you don't have as much experience as your male counterpart to show that you can be successful in that area. And a lot of times, I mean, there's a lot of companies that see things differently, but there are sort of a lot of companies that maybe don't necessarily see a woman as as sound of an investment as a male driver. And so sometimes it becomes hard to convince them to invest in you and what you want to do.

Jessica: So, I do want to talk about the actual racing, because I find it fascinating. I think a lot of people listening, they’ve probably driven a car at some point in their life, and they think that you just get in a car and you drive and you turn the steering wheel. But I understand, I've interviewed a couple of race car drivers before. It's an intense mental and physical thing to race in one of these. So the question I always like to ask is what part of your body hurts when you're finished racing that people will be shocked to learn?

Sabré: That hurts…I guess it depends on what car you're driving, but hopefully if you've done your training well, nothing really hurts. [Jessica laughs] But for me, I guess if you don't have a lot of seat time and you get in a car or on a track that has maybe a lot of banking or a lot of really high G loaded corners, your neck can get quite sore just because it is hard to replicate that sort of training in your neck in a gym. I mean, there's ways to do it, but nothing ever replaces the real thing. And then other things that are really challenged can be your forearms and grip strength and shoulder strength. And actually the shoulder strength kind of ties in because all of this upper body chain is sort of connected. So it's like, you know, your shoulders are sore, it can actually be more supported if you increase the strength that's in your chest or the strength that's in your triceps, just sort of that whole support system. So yeah, it's a lot of upper body strength. It's like this whole section of you has to be quite stout.

Jessica: So, that's fascinating. Your neck hurts because you're taking the corners so…Like, the G-force is on you. You're trying to keep your head up?

Sabré: Yeah. Yeah. More or less. I mean, you're just resisting the amount of G-forces that are going through your body. You have a seat that is made to form around you. So hopefully it helps support your core a bit, but ultimately your whole body is taking anywhere from, you know, one to three Gs trying to resist that going through corners.

Jessica: Alright. What do you find to be the most challenging thing about racing? 

Sabré: I guess there's a lot of things. I think with racing, it challenges you in so many different ways as a driver, because you have to deal with the business side of things, you have to deal with marketing yourself, you have to deal with communication with the team. You have to have a general technical understanding of how the cars function. You have to be physically fit. You have to be able to endure. You have to be kind of versatile. And if you do a sprint race like the W Series, or…Like, next week I go and do a four hour race. So it's being able to compensate for different lengths of time, being able to adapt to different cars, different tracks that maybe you've never been to or never been in. I guess all those things are part of being a racing driver, and they are all challenging, but it is an enjoyable challenge. 

Jessica: Do you have a favorite race track? 

Sabré: I do! Well, in the States…I’ve never actually raced on it. I would like to, in the future. But I would love to race on Laguna Seca. And in Europe, I guess I really love Brands Hatch and I like Spa. 

Jessica: Okay. What makes it your favorite racetrack? What's good about a race track? 

Sabré: I think it depends on the driver, but I guess what I like about Brands Hatch is, you know, it can have some really quick, blind, fast, sort of like…You got to just have faith and go for it sort of sections. 

Jessica: Woo hoo! [Sabré laughs] You are a race car driver. [laughs] That sounds terrible!

Sabré: No, I mean, I guess when you get to a track and there's like a section that you're struggling with and you've got to push yourself to do it, once you do it, it's just like one of the greatest feelings in the world. I mean, that's true for anyone when you do something that challenges you or maybe scares you or you're a bit uncertain about. Once you do it, it gives you this great feeling about yourself. It gives you confidence. And yeah, it’s the same for a driver on a track.

Jessica: That's amazing. So what is your ultimate goal with racing?

Sabré: Ultimate goal has been to run IndyCar. It's going to take lots of funding along the way to get there, but that would be the end all goal.

Jessica: Do you think we'll see a woman start a championship Formula One Grand Prix in the next decade, two decades, your lifetime? Where do you see that? 

Sabré: I would hope by the end of the decade. But I don't know for sure. I think you're going to have to find a driver from a young age and, you know, build them up along the way, just like the men are. And they need to have the resources, but they also have to have the talent and the drive. And then encouraging more women to start, and if more women start, I think we'll find that person a lot faster. 

Jessica: So before I let you go, there's one last thing I want to ask you about. So at the beginning of this, you were talking about, like, calculating weight and power and all this stuff, and you're doing it in your head. My understanding is that you are an engineer. 

Sabré: Yes, I am.

Jessica: What did you go to school for? 

Sabré: I went to the Colorado School of Mines for mechanical engineering.

Jessica: Wow. So do you end up using that then as a driver?

Sabré: You don't need it necessarily as a driver, but I do tend to use it when I am, obviously just as we were talking, I do tend to use it sometimes. Yes.

Jessica: That's so cool. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Sabré. I really appreciate it, that you've come on Burn It All Down to talk about this, and I'm excited to see the W Series. Can you tell our listeners how they can follow you on the internet? 

Sabré: Yes, of course. It is just my name. I try to make it simple. So it is just @sabre_cook on Twitter and @sabrecook on Instagram, and Sabré Cook Racing on Facebook. You can also find me on LinkedIn as well. And yeah, I hope to see you guys there at the race! That would be amazing if you can come. 

Jessica: Yes. Well, good luck in everything that you're doing. 

Sabré: Thank you so much.

Jessica: This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Listen, subscribe and rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn. For show links and transcripts, check out our website, burnitalldownpod.com. You can also find a link to our merch at our Bonfire store. And thank you to our patrons. Your support means the world. If you want to become a sustaining donor to our show, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. Burn on, and not out.

Sabré: I love that ending! Burn it all down, and not out. That's great. That’s great. [laughs]