Episode 241: March Madness: Finally, the Women Can Say It Too
In this episode Jessica Luther, Amira Rose Davis and Lindsay Gibbs discuss March Madness! But first, they talk a little bit about WNBA star Brittney Griner's situation in Russia. Then, they break down everything with the NCAA Women's March Madness basketball tournament: how we can finally say March Madness for the women's bracket, the inequities that have changed and those that remain as well as how NIL might increase the madness. They also discuss who they are excited to watch ball out.
Following this discussion, you'll hear a preview of Brenda Elsey's climate change and sports interviews with global football writer David Goldblatt and AP reporter Brittany Peterson. Next, they burn the worst of sports this week on the Burn Pile. Then, they celebrate those making sports better including Torchbearer of the Week, Erica Ayala and Kelly Schultz, the first all-female digital broadcast in New Jersey Devils' history. They wrap up the show with What's Good in their in their lives and What We're Watching in sports this week.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Links
WNBA star Brittney Griner detained in Russia: What we know and don't know about what's next https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/33462494/wnba-star-brittney-griner-detained-russia-know-know-next
Power Plays: On helplessness https://www.powerplays.news/p/on-helplessness
The low-profile, high-powered race to free WNBA star Brittney Griner from Russian custody: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/03/10/brittney-griner-russian-prison-wnba
Brittney Griner’s Impact Is Clear as W.N.B.A. Fans Await Word From Russia: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/sports/basketball/brittney-griner-wnba-russia.html
Transcript
Jessica: Welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. I'm Jessica, and I'm joined today by Amira and Lindsay. On this week's show, we're going to talk about March Madness – the women's side of it, at least. Then we'll burn things that deserve to be burned, highlight the torchbearers who are lighting the way, let you know what's good in our world, and tell you what we're watching this week in sports. But first, we want to briefly talk about Brittany Griner, the WNBA superstar who plays for the Phoenix Mercury. She's been detained by Russian officials since February 17th, after she allegedly went through customs with hashish oil in her luggage. We don't know that much at this point because it seems her family and her people don't want us to, but it all feels incredibly precarious and scary, and we're all very worried for her. So, what have you all been thinking about this? Like, what are you reading or listening to or whatever in order to follow this? Lindsay?
Lindsay: Yeah, I just think it's so important, like, the initial reaction – I'm about to publish a Power Plays about this, but just kind of how this is the type of thing where we want to do our typical response to any sort of injustice in women's sports and just scream about it and demand accountability and yell at those in power and rally the troops. But I think it's so important to take the cues from her team and from her agent and from those who have some sort of an idea about what's going on behind the scenes. And, you know, there's a piece at the Washington Post about why there are high profile people working on this. This is high profile, but they're trying to keep it low key. And we'll link that in the show notes, because that was really helpful to me, as well as M.A. Voepel and T.J. Quinn who did a great basic by the facts breakdown of the whole situation on ESPN.
And so it feels like and in some ways it is another example of like a Black queer woman just being allowed to fall through the cracks, and I think that's what the silence reads as, but because of the Russian legal system and because of the war there's a lot more to this, and added layers. So, I've mainly been trying to take the cues from her family and friends, but it's also impossible not to think about it and want to talk about it.
Jessica: Yeah, I agree. Amira?
Amira: Yeah. I would just really affirm that. I think that we know how raising voices can be an important tool. It can be a method of bringing visibility to things that feel overlooked and it can be, you know, a place of empowerment to feel like you're doing something. And I think what's frustrating about this situation is feeling powerlessness to do much of anything. And I think that Lindsay is exactly right, that it is clear that people have been working on this and are working on it. But it's also clear that this is a certain situation in which parts of the discourse and parts of the visibility actually can be harmful and not helpful. And so part of our kind of thing up top here is to point you in the directions of content you can consume if you have questions, but also to say, like, this is one of the reasons we're not doing like a full show on BG at this moment, because it's just, I think, more important to wait right now.
I do want to point out two places. Lindsay gave you some resources; I'm going to add to that. Myself and friend of the show Courtney Cox talked to Jonathan Abrams at the New York Times that did a kind of background, kind of contextual piece for people who actually are kind of more late fans or not understanding things like why WNBA players might be playing overseas. So, if you're listening to Burn It All Down, you might not necessarily need that primer, but I did want to flag it. I really do want to point you to our friends over at Spinsters with Jordan and Hayley, they just did an episode. They were joined by a Russian legal specialist, William Butler, to discuss the detainment in Russia, as well as of course our good friend Courtney Cox, who talks about her experience covering the W.
Also Courtney, if you don't know, is an expert on women's basketball and global labor markets, has done research in Russia. She tells a story for instance of going over to Russia the first time she does research there and getting her quote-unquote “lost” and how it was so hard to navigate these situations. And I think that that's really helpful context that isn't directly about BG, but can help set the stage for understanding of what this moment is, what's happening. And lastly, our thoughts continue to be with her and her loved ones as they navigate this really terrifying and trying time.
Jessica: Yeah. Thank you. I wanted to mention, there was this piece by Alex Simon at The Next, which...Thank you for The Next existing, like, a place that writes about women's ball all the time. Simon covered the Mercury last season. And I have just been thinking about this so much since I read it. He said that, in the final interview of the season for Griner last year, she was asked if this would be the last time for her traveling overseas. And she said, “It is getting harder and harder. I'm not really looking forward to it, honestly, having to leave my family and go overseas again. Definitely going over this offseason, and then just taking it year by year.” And I just…We are thinking about her, and we're keeping her and her family in our thoughts.
March Madness is here, and this year we can even use that term to talk about the women's tournament. It starts Wednesday, March 16th. It'll run through Sunday, April 3rd, when the champion will be crowned in Minneapolis. But this is Burn It All Down, and we cannot just talk basketball. You know we have to do the larger context. And this feels to me like the third part of a trilogy that began last year in March with episode 198 titled The NCAA Is Still Laughably Sexist. It was the three of us – me, Amira, Lindsay – talking about all the inequalities at the tournament bubble last year.
Lindsay: You know, we talk about inequity so much on this show, but it's kind of rare to have a week where like all the talking is done for us [laughs] through these visuals, like, where you can point to something so stark. And so it's been interesting. Jess, what stuck out to you?
Jessica: Yeah. I mean, lots of things. It was kind of that feeling of like, it's so blatant, how do you even talk about it? Because, like, how do you describe something that's so obvious?
Lindsay: Whew. Amira?
Amira: Yeah. I would say that I was not not surprised about the subpar conditions and the afterthought of the tournament, because it's been an afterthought.
Jessica: Then there was part two in November 2021. Again, the three of us in episode 225, titled Receipts on Gender Inequity in the NCAA, when we talked about the two reports that the NCAA put out about what it was doing to fix its problems.
Jessica: And I just think, why would we trust the NCAA or media organizations to suddenly take the women's tournament seriously, rather than just treat it as an uninteresting, annoying little sister to be managed alongside the big banner events of the men's tournament?
Amira: There has been no reason to ever trust the NCAA. The NCAA, who went to court a million times to not have to deal with women’s sports.
Jessica: And so, as you heard, we left off in November with us not trusting the NCAA to do much of anything to actually fix what was wrong. So we thought we'd assess where we are now, if anything has changed, how we're feeling going into this tournament a year later after everything that came out. Lindsay, can you get us started on some of the things that are actually different this year?
Lindsay: Yeah. I mean, first of all, like you said, the branding, that's a big deal, right? That was kind of the first thing they did. They said, okay, we'll allow you to use the March Madness – even though everyone already called it March Madness anyways! But you know, so, the branding and the logos will look different, and that's good news. The women’s selection show will be on Sunday, like the men's is. I think that'll help for media coverage and everything, getting those Monday morning brackets ready, having the brackets out at the same time. Another kind of, I think, easier change for them to make was we know that…What, 10, 12, 15? I don't remember how many years ago, but the men's field expanded to 68.
So they have the first four games, which are two games being played between 16 seeds to get into the main bracket and two games being played between 11 seeds to get into the main bracket. The women's side finally has that this year. So there are 68 teams in the women's tournament. It's a little bit different than the men's because we all know the men do neutral sites for the first two rounds, whereas for the women the first two rounds are held at the home courts of the top 16 seeds. So if you're a seed 1-4 in any of the brackets, you are hosting that first weekend of games between yourself and the low seed you play, and then your opponents also play. So these first four games, it seems to me, are going to be held at the campus also of whatever bracket they're in, if that makes sense. [laughs]
Jessica: Yes. I think so.
Lindsay: It's a little bit confusing, but whereas the men's first four is known for being in Dayton, Ohio. Like, it's this one location for the first four games, from what I've been able to tell. It’s actually been kind of hard to find out real information about this.
Jessica: Some things are always the same, Lindsay. [laughs]
Lindsay: Yeah. So, everything is, you know, at the home of the top four seeds. So I'm guessing it's wherever they would fit into that bracket, that's where they will be playing. So, you know, that's good. Four more teams getting an opportunity, you know, I mean, that's just something that there was no reason not to be equal. Also, swag bags and Final Four lounges will be identical, finally. Amazing. You know, we've kind of gotten a vague promise that there are more contractors, vendors and full-time employees that will work at the women's tournament, and also that they've increased the budget for the women's tournament and kind of recalibrated things going line by line with the men’s. But they have not released official numbers on that, so, yeah.
Also, the number of sponsors is increased. So, women’s tournament specific sponsors, there were seven in 2019, which is the last kind of normal year. And now there are 11, including Buick serving as the inaugural presenting sponsor for the Party on the Plaza. So, this is good! These are all kind of, I think, the easiest things to change, right? But at least they did, right? Because there was certainly a world where they didn’t. [laughs]
Jessica: Yeah. And like, things like this field of 68, you don't really go back, right? Like, once this changes, this is a change, right? Amira, I know that you pay close attention to all of this, because your cousin Alexis is the star point guard for LSU, Alexis Morris. What are you thinking right now in terms of what is different this year?
Amira: Well, like Lindsay said, there's a lot of things that I know players are happy about, like swag bags, like the players lounges that Lindsay just mentioned. I just want to underscore, like, these are really big deals. The fact that all four hotels that the men's final four teams stayed in had these designated spots where you could see friends and family – that was not standard practice on the women's side, like, god forbid they want people to come and hug them or something. I don't know. But yeah. So, some of the differences that I'm thinking about are two kind of big changes from last year, and kind of related to COVID. One that we saw last year of course is that these tournaments were held at a single site, because they created bubbles. We know that for instance COVID testing was not equitable. It's actually one of the things that allowed us to really see the disparity between the men's and women's tournament, because one was in Indianapolis and one was in San Antonio, but we could see the discrepancies in PCR testing. We could see the food, we could see–
Jessica: Lack of a gym!
Amira: Lack of a gym, because they had two bubble sites. And so of course now, as we're like in chapter four of COVID or whatever, and people are rolling back some of these protections and mandates, et cetera, the tournament is once again going to the sections and the quadrants, if you will, where you're going to these regions to play games. And so in some ways it's kind of harder to track. For instance, Lindsay mentioned the contractors. One of the big things that was trending of course last year was the food disparity. You remember those nice spreads of steak for the men, and–
Jessica: Lobster Mac and cheese! I think I remember. [laughs]
Amira: Yeah! The pictures my cousins sent me were like inedible food on the women's side. But because they're moving around to different sites, they've ensured that the budgets are the same for teams who are providing meals to their own kind of teams, et cetera, et cetera. And so you can see how already it's harder to track those sorts of measures of equity, because we're kind of bursting the bubble this season. And, you know, seeing how that works with COVID, because it's still out there, y’all! And so seeing how it works out, all these teams crisscrossing the country multiple times will be interesting to monitor. Before I go into the other kind of big difference this year, I did want to just kind of remark two things from that report that are still kind of untouched, which is big.
One, the incentives for winning on the women's side, we still don't have a lot of answers for. And if you remember, one of the big kind of foundational things about that report was what was gained by winning on the men's bracket, which incentivizes schools to pour into their men's programs, because they get stuff back. And we still don't really understand or have been told or anything how or if those similar incentives are going to be, you know, put on the women's sides. We've had groups calling for it, of course, and restructuring.
And then the second thing, of course, Liz Clarke had a column out today in Wash Post where she brings up the ESPN ratings. We’re seeing a lot of gains in ratings because ESPN is really fronting their coverage of women's March Madness this year, and ratings are spiking. We saw the numbers coming in from some of these tournament games were huge, huge numbers. And so, moving forward, it'll be interesting to see how those media rights deals are restructured. And I think there's both moments of concern and possibility in these kinds of big questions that go to the heart of the kind of foundational reasons for inequity: media rights, media deals, incentives, et cetera. And so the swag bags are great. The food budgets, super cool, right? But these bigger kind of big money questions are still floating up there that require answers.
Lindsay: Yeah. Just actually some breaking news from ESPN PR. Right as Amira was talking, they sent out a programming update. So, the women's championship game is going to air in prime time for the first time in years. Now, the cynic in me says, well, how convenient? Because there's probably not Sunday night baseball that night. [laughs]
Jessica: Huh. Yes.
Lindsay: So, that's an easy fix, because I think the game would usually be around 6:00pm eastern and then go into the Sunday night baseball. But we'll take it.
Jessica: We’ll take it. [laughs]
Lindsay: We got a prime time women's championship game. It'll be on 8:00pm eastern on Sunday, April 3rd.
Jessica: Thank you, Lindsay. Amira?
Amira: Yeah. And then lastly, one of the big kind of differences we see is we now have, of course, name, image, and likeness. And you know, in the mid season we started getting reports of these numbers of deals that college athletes were brokering. Some people were surprised. Other people – these people that are talking to you right now – were less surprised to see that women's basketball was second only to football in terms of NIL deals. So, football of course commands half of these deals, as football tends to do. And women's basketball has been the second kind of highest place where we've seen these deals be brokered with athletes, which is not a surprise because we have long known the follower count, the Instagram opportunities, all of these opportunities that would come for women's college athletes on the basketball side. So we're going into a March Madness with a lot of people also having sponsorships, having more eyes on them because they're having external sponsors also driving eyes to the athletes they're supporting.
Our producer Tressa pointed out a very meta thing that happened. Iowa’s Caitlin Clark and South Carolina’s Zia Cook signed with H&R Block to do activation around their kind of Fair Shot campaign, which provides a million dollars in sponsors and support for women college athletes, which is basically signing an NIL deal to promote more NIL deals. [laughs] So, we're getting very meta with it. But it does mean for instance that now H&R Block, who might not be an official sponsor, has two people in the tournament that they are going to be doing activations around, commercials around, ad buys around, et cetera. And it will be interesting to see how, as we roll through March and into that first weekend in April, how these external sponsorships not tied to schools, not tied to these big kind of sponsorships of the tournament also impact or heighten the coverage and visibility of the athletes playing in the tournament.
Jessica: Yeah, that is very exciting. I hadn't really put all that together. And that will be really interesting. I did just want to bring up the branding one more time. I know it's such like surface level that we are going to call it March Madness and it won’t…What did it say last year? “Women's basketball”? Like, that was the court?
Lindsay: “NCAA women’s basketball.” Yeah.
Jessica: [laughs] Women’s basketball. And now we get March Madness. I mean, there was this whole thing where they changed the Twitter handles so that the NCAA women's basketball says March Madness WBB or something like that. But I do think it matters. I did talk to a big time DI women's basketball coach this week, and we had a laugh over the fact that we both didn't realize until last year that it wasn't called March Madness. And this is someone…Like, this is a coach who's been in the game for over two decades. And so it is surface, but it is a big deal that we will finally have just the same lexicon for both the men's and women's tournament that everyone is used to.
At the same time, if you Google March Madness right now, it's going to be the men, right? Like, just the way that these things are entrenched. The SEO, the men own the SEO for March Madness and they will for a really long time. It will take a long time for that kind of shift to happen. One thing that feels very different to me this year already are brackets. I don't know if this is for you guys, but there are just brackets. Like, I keep seeing things for women's hoops. Whereas I feel like in the past, you needed like a pirate treasure map [Amira laughs] or like…It was like being in an escape room where you had to like put all the clues together in the right order, in order to like get to a women's bracket somewhere. And that's not true this time around.
Lindsay already talked about how the Sunday selection show means we'll get brackets first thing, you know, people can talk about them on Monday. But there are two big things that I saw. Degree and Candace Parker, they've teamed up to provide a bracket challenge. And Just Women's Sports is partnered with Dick's Sporting Goods for one. And I just love this so much, like, more of this, please, going forward. Lindsay, you have one more thing for us, something that we actually discussed on the last show in November.
Lindsay: Yeah. First I want to add, I really do want to see though more combined bracket challenges.
Jessica: Also a good idea.
Lindsay: When I was at ThinkProgress, I ran the bracket challenge for our pool and I made it combined, like, to enter, you had to do the men's and women's, and the winner was the combined of the both – which was a very me thing to do, yes. But everyone was cool about it.
Jessica: We should just be in charge of like all the things.
Lindsay: So, I love the women's specific ones, but also like, let's just have this all together. Like, let's do some combined things – but not everything should be combined. [laughs]
Amira: Just rooting for the chaos. I love it.
Lindsay: One of the big things that was a big recommendation from the report that the NCAA commissioned was that the authors of the report felt like money and opportunity was being left on the table by not combining the men's and women's Final Fours. And there's a lot of mixed feelings about this, and a lot of resistance actually to this amongst the women's basketball community because the women's Final Four has become its own special thing and people have worked really, really hard to make it like that, despite the lack of support. And, you know, there's a great fear that having it added to the men's Final Four weekend will just make it a sideshow, right? And take away from the specialness of the event.
And so on that note, the NCAA did announce in February that it's going to continue to hold separate men's and women's Final Fours through the next round of site selections. The next round of bids for cities looking to host the Final Fours are between 2027 and 2031. So, this looks like it will for about the next decade keep them apart, which I think is a good thing. I'm not saying it can never be combined, but I think that let's keep them separate for now and see what making all these other changes can do to strengthen the women's event. So we can think of it more as a co-star. I do think, like in tennis, things can be stronger when they're together. Like, I do believe that. But you've got to have some equal footing first, and the women's tournament, because the NCAA is bullshit, isn't there yet. So I really was comforted by this, and excited by it.
Jessica: Yeah, I think that time will give an intentionality to the combination rather than just throwing them together and seeing what happens.
Lindsay: Totally.
Jessica: So, I do want to talk actual basketball just a little bit before we get out of here. I want you all to tell me a player and/or a team that you're excited to watch in this postseason. Amira, I'm going to make you go first.
Amira: I want to shout out Shakira Austin from Ole Miss. And this is also a way of shouting out Coach Yo as well. What they have done at Ole Miss has been a little bit under the radar because the SEC has seen some great coaching this year. Obviously Dawn Staley got the AP coach of the year. Many people wanted Kim Mulkey for her turnaround at LSU. Kelly Finley down at Florida has also had a phenomenal season. And then Coach Yo has taken Ole Miss, which has just been like a perpetual loser in the SEC, it’s a very hard place to coach. It's also a very hard place to recruit, because a lot of people don't really want to go to Oxford, Mississippi. And yet they're the fourth seed in the SEC. They have a double bye at the SEC tournament, and a lot of that has to do with Shakira Austin, who of course Lindsay has covered for a while and on the show because she used to be at Maryland, and she bet on herself.
The Big Ten of course is pretty known for perimeter play, for shooters. Shakira Austin wanted to build a team around herself, and transferred to Ole Miss in a move that turned a lot of heads and brought a lot of confusion. But I must say, it has paid off for her, just the way that she has helped this program go up and up and up. Two years ago, they were 0-16 in SEC play. This year, they were 10-6. I mean, it's really a phenomenal turnaround. It's wild. Shakira Austin is on everybody's kind of late season watch list, the Lisa Leslie award, best centers in the game, et cetera. She's one of only seven active players right now with 1500 career points, 1000 career rebounds. She leads all active SEC players with her rebounds. And she has over 230 blocks this season. She is absolutely amazing. If you ever watch her play, she's fierce, she's a competitor. I love her style.
Talking to The Next just a few days ago, she reflected on this season and she said, “Yeah, I came to Ole Miss with some goals. I wanted to turn this program around. I wanted to find value in myself and try to figure out if I'd be able to do it. I had a belief in myself that I could. This was the biggest bet on myself, coming here and changing Ole Miss. And now, being a top four seed in the tournament, this feeling, and we haven't even won yet, is just as good as winning a championship at the high level.” But don't think that that’s all she had her eyes set on. She's certainly coming for more in this postseason. She said, “The feeling that will happen in a couple of weeks after we do something crazy and special will be even more exciting.” And so I can't wait to watch what Shakira Austin brings to the tournament.
And of course, the team I want to shout out is not really surprising, it's LSU. I just have to say, it’s been phenomenal to watch this season. When it started, of course they were unranked. We knew it would be kind of hard to rebuild a program. They have some seniors and then everybody's really new. So there's like very little middle in there in that team. And I just remember when they beat Iowa State when Iowa State was ranked 14, and that felt like a huge win because we beat a ranked team, and look at that. And watching the team come together, Alexis and Khayla Pointer have become a really effective duo. Khayla’s been named to the All-SEC first team. Alexis, the second team. They both are in top 10 categories across the SEC for points per game, for rebounds. Their production has been phenomenal together.
The guard play, especially when you add in Jailin Cherry to there has just been out of this world. The thing they've struggled with this year is that they have many games where the guards are doing it all. We saw a game late in the season where all three of them were just shooting bricks all day, and the post players finally really stepped up and had their moment. So, Faustine Aifuwa, Awa Trasi, Autumn Newby. And if they can put it all together, if they can get their guards going and their post players going at the same time, then there's not a single team that they can't hang with. They were up 15 on SC before losing by one possession. And I'm very excited to see what they do going into March, late March, March-er, the later March. I know we're in March. I just realized that. [laughter] You know what March I'm talking about.
Jessica: Thank you, Amira. Lindsay?
Lindsay: I'm all of a sudden very confused about what month we're in. [laughter] But yeah, I think I'm going to kind of stick with seniors here, because this is mainly the last chance to get to see them. So, Rhyne Howard over at Kentucky. Kentucky under coach Kyra Elzy, it's been phenomenal to see what Kentucky has done after struggling and kind of underperforming earlier this year. They just beat South Carolina in the SEC championship game to win that tournament. And Rhyne Howard, who honestly looked a little lost earlier this season, is now playing like the potential number one draft pick that we all thought she could be. And just, like, watch Kentucky. Watch Rhyne Howard. Such a fun team. I also have to give some ACC love over NC State. I really hope this is the year they make it to the Final Four and can kind of get some of that, like, you know, they've been in the top 10, they've been in the top 5 for years now, but they haven't made that big Final Four breakthrough.
And what Wes Moore has done with that team – and led by a Greensboro native! That's where I'm from. Elissa Cunane is the senior. She's also just a must watch player in the post. Cannot wait to see what she does. And then this is not a senior, but their point guard Diamond Johnson is like a firecracker out there, like, a human highlight reel. And the team has a lot of like super seniors who decided to take an extra year of eligibility after COVID to try and get to this Final Four. So, keep an eye on NC State. They'll be a top seed. It's a little sad because there's a regional in Greensboro, so Greensboro will host a Sweet 16, Elite 8 game. And so you would think since NC State's a top seed that NC State would get that, but South Carolina will get the Greensboro regional because it's the closest one to them. So, NC State won't have that hometown boost in the regionals, but that's okay.
Jessica: I love listening to the two of you talk about basketball. [laughs] I feel like we need to do more just like straight up sports talk, because that was thrilling for me. My player pick I feel is super obvious, and I'm still gonna do it anyway. Haley Jones at Stanford. It looks like Stanford might do this back to back. If they do it, it'll be in large part because of the outstanding play of Jones. Stanford won the Pac-12 tournament. She was the tournament MVP. She's had games this season where she's been on like cheat mode. Like, there was one game where literally my entire timeline was just constantly tweeting out the videos from Jones. She had something like where she was sitting on the ground with her back to the basket and still made the layup? Like, just stuff that shouldn't be physically possible. And so I am just really excited to watch the Stanford team, but also mainly just to watch what she can do when she really gets going like we have seen in the past.
The plan early last week was to do a baseball interview, but by the time we had to finalize who we'd be interviewing, the MLB and the players had not yet reached an agreement and everything was in flux. But rest assured, we will be doing a baseball what-the-fuck-just-happened interview very soon. But this week, we are excited to bring you a Brenda double-header. She talks with Brittany Peterson and then David Goldblatt, both of them journalists, about how the climate crisis impacts sport.
Brittany Peterson: You know, early January, the town was assessing the ice viability, and it was only six inches thick. It was slushy. And they decided that there was no way that was going to sustain such a large event and the heavy equipment required to create a hockey rink.
David Goldblatt: I think the climate crisis requires pretty much universal levels of engagement. Everybody is crew on this one. And I don't know anything that reaches more people in more places across more demographics than football. There's just…Nothing comes close.
Jessica: Now it's time for everyone's favorite segment, the burn pile, where we pile up all the things we've hated this week in sports and we set them aflame. Lindsay Gibbs, what are you burning?
Lindsay: Yeah, I want to burn the ATP, Association of Tennis Professionals, the men's tour’s very big lack of punishment for Alex Zverev. So, Zverev was kicked out of a tournament in the end February, just in case you need a reminder. It was the Mexican Open, I believe, for yelling and cursing at an official and violently striking the umpire's chair no fewer than four times. This came right after he and his doubles partner, Marcelo Melo, lost their doubles match. It was a stunning display of aggression and violence and fury on the court, like, actually scary and chilling to watch, especially when you think of the fact that there have been allegations of domestic violence against Zverev. And just to see the way he turned the switch in his mood and took that out on somebody physically and could've done real harm was terrifying to watch.
We've seen incidents where players have like thrown their racket in frustration and it accidentally gets near an umpire or a ball boy or something, and that's dangerous. But this was a targeted attack, and that's really set it apart. Well, he was initially fined and forfeited from the tournament and lost his prize money, but we've been waiting to see what the punishment was. Well, the ATP announced this week that he's been put on probation for one year. So if he receives a code violation that results in a fine for unsportsmanlike conduct or for verbal or physical abuse, he will be suspended from ATP events for eight weeks and fined an additional $25,000. That's only if – in the next year only, and after that the probation period goes away – he received another serious code violation.
This is an embarrassing, humiliatingly tepid penalty. The entire tour should be embarrassed by it. And I think it goes right along with kind of the governance issues the ATP has, which is this fact that it’s this amorphous blob of a board composed of players and tournament directors and tournament officials and former players who don't want to actually enact punishment on anyone in their sport, much to the sport's detriment. So, it's just fucking appalling. I cannot believe he did not get a real suspension. And I've just got to throw that onto the burn pile. Burn.
All: Burn.
Jessica: I'll go next. We are recording on Friday, March 11th, which happens to be the same day that multiple women are supposed to appear before a grand jury in Houston regarding their reports that Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson sexually harassed and assaulted them. 10 women have filed complaints with Houston police. Watson faces up to 22 lawsuits. Something like 23 or 24 women total have come forward about him. And yet, and yet, and yet! The news this week is all about all the teams interested in trading for Watson. Football media is clearly ready to move on, all anticipating – probably rightly – that Watson will not be held accountable by the criminal system. And that if he's not, we all just, what, move on? On Thursday this last week, Pro Football Talk published an article titled Which teams are realistic options for Deshaun Watson?
Florio literally wrote, “If the grand jury does not indict Watson on felony charges, he could be traded when the new league year begins next week. So which teams would be interested?” Sports Illustrated's Corbin Smith tweeted out his piece about Watson possibly going to Seattle to fill the hole left vacant by Russell Wilson's moved to Denver with, quote, “Embroiled in legal issues, Deshaun Watson's future remains up in the air. But if he isn't charged, the Seahawks have interest in pursuing a trade for the three-time Pro Bowler and think they have the roster to persuade him to waive his no-trade clause.” But if he isn't charged. I feel pretty tired reading all of this shit. I feel tired that the only arbiter of harm for many people is the criminal system, even though we know it does a poor job in particular of holding people accountable for this exact kind of harm.
I feel tired that the men of sports media are so ready to just put it behind them. They can't wait. They're eager to get back to talking about football. Good for you assholes. Lucky you. In my piece for Spinsters last year about the NBA and domestic violence, I talked to Dr. Leigh Goodmark about fan reaction to players who have been reported for harming someone. And she said to me, “The law hasn't done the work we wanted it to do. We have to do granular community level change in the messaging and the understanding of intimate partner violence and work around patriarchy. Fans are going to continue to cheer for people because, on some level, they don't think what the people did was wrong. And that's because we don't have a strong community consensus that says this is wrong.”
I think about this quote all the time. Like, whatever you're imagining in your mind right now, double it. That's how often I think about this quote. Fans are going to continue to cheer for people because on some level they don't think what the people did was wrong. This applies to the media as well. And they've proven it again to me this week. When I see people just wanting to move on from two dozen – two dozen! – women saying that this man has harmed them. The only conclusion I can come to is that on some level they don't think what Watson did was wrong, or that it was wrong enough. And that's just fucking shameful. And I want to burn it. Burn.
All: Burn
Jessica: Amira, what do you want to torch?
Amira: I mean, you know, good old NFL hypocrisy. This week, it was announced that Falcons running back Calvin Ridley would be suspended for a minimum of one entire season for placing three bets through a betting app that he did when he was out of football last season. So, he had taken a mental health leave. At that time, he placed three bets totaling $1,500 on an app that’s fine print includes a line that says professional players cannot bet on anything that their athletic leagues run. And so because of that, Goodell and the NFL has decided that he will be suspended for a minimum of a year. Next February he could apply for reinstatement, and we'll see what they say there. There's a number of reasons why this might feel grimy to you. The first is that it might feel excessive to have an entire season.
So, as Bomani Jones says, he thought he was betting 1500, he was really betting $12 million – which is the salary he will be foregoing while he serves the suspension. Moreover, in light of the paltry punishments that we have seen the league deem acceptable for things like domestic abuse, when you get two games here, four games there, to have an entire season based on these three bets seems excessive based on what the NFL has decided matters to them. So, clearly betting matters. We'll come back to that in a second. But like, hitting people, abusing people, molesting people doesn’t, in terms of what they deem to be across the line and worthy of game suspensions or seasons. Now, let's loop back to that idea that the NFL somehow doesn't like betting, because this is also probably one of the things that has you looking at this with the things that make you go (hmm face.) 🤔
Because the NFL shrouds itself in gambling, in betting, in pushing this to its fans, its constituents. And what they're worried about with players betting, of course, is this age old idea of point shaving, that they are going to lay a bet on themselves and then alter the outcome because they're participating. This seems like a situation where you can see he wasn't playing. He wasn't doing anything. He took to Twitter to be like, look, I don't have a gambling problem. I placed three bets. And I think it's hard to watch the NFL take such a hoity toity, high minded, you know, integrity line on this, and then turn around and double down on all of the ways they're profiting from betting themselves. The league itself is profiting from gambling, is pushing gambling.
And it feels like another way that they're padding their pockets, that owners are padding their pockets in ways that doesn't extend to the labor force actually playing the games. There's a number of tweets that pointed this out that said, I think Jess pointed out, it's only a matter of time until Calvin Ridley becomes the code that you can use in FanDuel or whatever to place more bets, or you could bet on if this suspension will get overturned next February. Or, as Matt Brown tweeted, you know, “How will this impact YOUR fantasy team? Presented by FanDuel. But first, a message from Coinbase.” [Jessica laughs] I mean, it's hypocrisy we should be used to by now, but it's still stunning when you see it happen in real time. Deep deep, deep, deep sigh, and burn it down.
All: Burn.
Jessica: Before we get into our torchbearers, we do want to say that our hearts are with everyone who was harmed at the Querétaro and Atlas game last weekend. No one should end up beaten up or in a hospital because of fan violence at a sporting event. We wish everyone a speedy and full recovery. Now, to highlight people carrying the torch and changing sports culture. Lindsay, get us started.
Lindsay: We are so thankful for Coco Gauff, the teenage tennis sensation, who is once again raising her voice against injustice, this time speaking out about Florida's horrible 'Don't Say Gay' bill that would prohibit discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in classrooms. She said, in part, “I think it's important that they have those conversations in school because that is supposed to be a safe space to talk about everything.” Keep speaking up, Coco, we are listening.
Jessica: Amira.
Amira: Yes, I just want to lift up and shout out Harry Miller. Harry Miller is an Ohio State football player who just announced that he was medically retiring from football for mental health reasons. Now, we have seen medical retirement tap in for physical health, but I have never seen a statement like this. I recommend everybody go read it. Harry Miller has detailed his mental health journey and talked about his need to step away from the game due to his own mental health concerns, the support that he's gotten in dealing with them, and being public about this so that he can help advocate for mental health and inspire other people who are struggling to take it seriously into understand that it is something that you can talk about and a valid reason to step away from something that is not serving you and is contributing to the harm that you're experiencing. And so, Harry, well wishes on your retirement. Thank you for stepping up and living your truth and sharing it with the world. It's not easy to do, but I think we are all the better for it.
Jessica: Lindsay.
Lindsay: Just like last week, we want to raise a toast to all the Paralympians who are out there killing it this week. We want to give a special shoutout to China's Yu Jing. She is a sledge hockey player, the third woman to ever play in the Paralympics. She had over five minutes in China's 6-0 blow out of Italy in their final preliminary round game. Afterwards she said, “It makes me feel meaningful as well. This is a perfect day for me.”
Jessica: So, there are too many to list, but we are excited for all the women's basketball conference champions: UMass, Belmont, Iowa, Kentucky, Mercer, UT Arlington, so many others. We love to see it. Good luck to everyone in the tournament. Can I get a drumroll, please?
[drumroll]
Amira, who are our torchbearers this week?
Amira: Well, Jessica, that would be Erica Ayala and Kelly Schultz. They are the first all-female digital broadcast in New Jersey Devils history. We are huge fans of Erica here on Burn It All Down, and we love to see her smash ceilings on her way up. Just check out their amazing call during that game…
Jessica: Okay. What's good, y’all? Lindsay, what's good with you?
Lindsay: I mean, it's March! It's sinking in that we’ve got, you know…
Jessica: Yay!
Amira: Is it March?
Lindsay: I’ve got so much great women's basketball on the horizon over the next few weeks. I'm going to get to be there in person for a lot of it.
Jessica: That’s awesome.
Lindsay: It’s fun. [laughs] Like, I'm just excited. It just kind of hit me that we're here, like, oh, I do like this time of year! Everything's awful, but this is good. So, I'll take it.
Jessica: I love that. So, my what's good, the first thing…It feels surreal. I interviewed Billie Jean King last week for the New York Historical Society’s conference on women's history. It was a full hour. You can watch it on YouTube. I have put it on all of my socials everywhere, so it's easy to find. It was a delight. She's great. And it was really fun to be able to ask her about things that I have thought and read a lot about. So, that was just pure joy for me. Aaron and I went to the first two Austin FC games. They were at home this year. The team scored 10 goals between the two games, and it's not…They weren't playing great teams, but last year they would not have scored 10 goals. So, it'll be interesting to see what they do this weekend against a much better team on the road. But y’all, that was just fun. It was fun to be there.
Of course, American Prodigies is always what's good around here. Episode four will have dropped by the time you all are hearing this, and it has just been so great. Last week, we were on the banner for Apple Podcasts. And then my final thing: South By is here, South By Southwest is this week in Austin. And so on Sunday, friend of the show Katie Barnes will be on a panel with friend of the show Chris Mosier and Adam Rippon. And on Monday, Amira, the lovely Amira Rose Davis, will be on a panel with Nneka Ogwumike. I hope to be able to go to both of them and watch my friends be brilliant. And so I'm very excited about that. Amira?
Amira: My what's goods parallel Jess's a lot, except for the Billie Jean King thing, because she's, you know, cool. [laughs] I continue to be thrilled about the support of American Prodigies and the work we've put into that, and to see some of the early reactions to it roll in. I just finished one of the last interviews from it with a certain very GOAT-ish gymnast’s mom, and I can't wait for everybody to hear our conversation. Austin FC is scoring goals and it's like a brand new kind of warm and fuzzy feeling. And I just kind of want everybody to see our text message exchange with Jess, [laughter] which is just like during the games, it's like, “TWO GOALS! THREE GOALS!” [Jessica laughs] I was just very confused by it, and very excited. South By is here. Last year when I did South By it was virtual, so I didn't even remember when it was happening because we prerecorded. And so this year it's like a brand new experience, because they're like, here's your platinum pass and your swag bag and all your fancy times.
So I'm pretending to be fancy and I'm kind of enjoying that, I must say. And so my other kind of what's good is if you watch the selection show this weekend, or maybe you're just watching Outside the Lines or SportsCenter during the week, you might see a video essay about women's basketball and Title IX that I've put together with ESPN. It will be airing through the end of the month, and it's been fun to collaborate on that project and to celebrate Title IX, the 50th anniversary, but also to kind of think about the gaps and think about what we're aiming for in the future. And to be able to do that on a platform like ESPN, in my own words, and have a lot of kind of creative control…Well, if it's good we'll say I have a lot of creative control. [laughs] If not, just forget about that piece of it.
Jessica: [laughs] It’ll be good.
Amira: But it's certainly been a fun experience.
Jessica: That is wild. I cannot…Like, I'm going to lose my shit, hearing Amira do a video essay on ESPN.
Lindsay: That's so cool. It’s my first time hearing about it. That's amazing.
Amira: What?! I told you.
Lindsay: Yeah, you have not told me, no. Rude.
Amira: Sorry. [laughs]
Lindsay: Honestly, rude! [laughter] What’s not good for me is having to hear about that along with the rest of you! Like I'm nothing! [laughter]
Amira: I swear I told you that…
Lindsay: It's fine. It's fine. I'm just another fan. It's fine. [laughter]
Jessica: What we are watching this week: the ICC Women's World Cup – that's cricket – is underway. We know for sure our Shireenie will be paying close attention. Of course, March Madness starts this week. We will be watching. The NCAA women's hockey tournament is happening right now – please check out the coverage of it over at The Victory Press. And Amira tells me that the Champs League is happening, so I assume she, Brenda and Shireen are tuning in. [Amira laughs] I do know, I did look it up – Man U will be playing on Tuesday afternoon, so y'all will hear this before. Some of you.
That's it for this episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon does our website, episode transcripts and social media. You can find Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. If you want to subscribe, you can do so on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play, and TuneIn, all the different places. For information about the show and links and transcripts for each episode, check out our website, burnitalldownpod.com. From there you can email us directly or go shopping at our Bonfire store and get some Burn It All Down merch. As always, an evergreen thank you to our patrons for your support. It means the world. You can sign up to be a monthly sustaining donor to Burn It All Down at patreon.com/burnitalldown. On behalf of all of us here, burn on and not out.