Hot Take: Canada vs. USA Women's Hockey Gold Medal Showdown
In this hot take, Shireen Ahmed and Renee Hess, founder of Black Girl Hockey Club, break down the gold medal women's hockey match in the Beijing Olympics and storied rivalry between Canada and the USA.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Shireen: Good morning, flamethrowers! 🎶 Okay. Well, that was totally out of tune. And my next guest is actually going to help me with that. In addition to being one of my absolute favorite people in the world and the shining star and a goddess of hockey, a guardian of the gate, we have today to discuss the glorious finale of the Canada vs United States women's Olympic hockey game last night: a Southern California native, our Renee Hess works in community engagement for La Sierra University, and is an adjunct professor of sports journalism with the University of Memphis and, in 2019, launched the Black Girl Hockey Club, a nonprofit organization that focuses on equity and inclusion for Black women in ice hockey.
In October 2020, Renee's work was profiled in the New York Times. And in June 2021, she was named one of the three finalists for the NHL's Willie O'Ree community hero award for individuals who have positively impacted the community, culture or society through the sport of hockey. Renee received her bachelor's and master's degree in writing and literature at LA Sierra University, and has published nonfiction works and poetry in outlets such as Black Nerd Problems, Spectrum Magazine and Racebaitr. Her combined passion for reading, writing, research and hockey has led Renee to archive stories from Black folks about race, community and sports that examine multiple aspects of hockey culture through the lenses of intersectional feminism and social justice.
Renee is a fan of being a fan, and loves traveling to hockey games, listening to music that makes her cry, hanging out in the sunshine with her dogs. And her most memorable moment as a writer includes interviewing Nichelle Nichols, Lieutenant Uhura on Star Trek: The Original Series, at WonderCon, and then telling her mother about it. I love this bio, but I'm also going to add that she is an incredible singer. She is a scholar of sorts of Stan Rogers. I absolutely love her. Her aura is like the ocean and the sea. I could wax poetic all day. I will say, though, that not mentioned in this bio is that Renee has previously been a guest on Burn It All Down in 2018. So, Renee Hess!
Renee: Good morning, flamethrowers! 🎶 There, I did it. And you know, a fun fact is the very first time I was on a Burn It All Down, you asked me about a secret talent, and I said singing in the shower, and you have never let me forget that, honestly. [laughs]
Shireen: Yeah, because like, I clearly don't sing. I listen to you sing and I think I clap along, you know, whatever. But I didn't know. And you're very humble! That's another thing, you're humble – which is not something I'm going to be in this conversation. [laughs] You can see her rolling her eyes right now. My friend, I love you. And also, you're the biggest Pittsburgh Penguins fan I've ever known, like, ever. Which I think is really funny because you love Geno, you love Cros. And tell me Geno's name again, because I didn't actually–
Renee: Evgeni Vladimirovich Malkin. Yes, I did study Russian for about a year, just so that I could speak to him in his native tongue when we met. [Shireen laughs] It hasn't happened yet, and my Russian is now rusty. And so like, yeah, we'll see how well that goes. Are you laughing at me? You know my commitment. I'm a fan of being a fan! It's right there in the bio!
Shireen: You’re dedicated. I’m so lucky that all the players I love speak French, so I'm good. [laughs] So, you and I have been doing…The gruesome twosome is what we've named ourselves. And we have been doing some stuff on CBC all through these Olympic Games, particularly about hockey and women's hockey. And we're just going to bring that right over here and continue this with our shenanigans. So, there’s been a little bit of chirping going back and forth. This is the part where I'm humble and I'm like, well, you know, it was an honor just face the United States. But let's cut it down. Let's break it down, really.
First thing is I'm going to just hit you all up with my opinion. I think the loss of Brianna Decker was immense, and we felt that. I also last night, based on some stuff I learned this morning, I didn't know that Cavallini actually tore her MCL in January. I did not know that. And she was playing! So I'm wondering about these coaching decisions. So we can just jump right in, and we can start at the beginning or we can start at last night's game, which was 3-2 for Canada, no OT. Thank god. I think we all prayed for that. So, What are your thoughts?
Renee: You know what? You hit the nail on the head when you said the coaching decisions. I think that the coaching decisions have been questionable the entire tournament. From what I understand, they didn't even get their coaches til just a couple of weeks before the actual games, and it shows. The cohesiveness of Team Canada, the way that they are gelled and work together and know each other and know each other's weaknesses and strengths was incredibly imperative the entire tournament. With Team USA, it seemed there were a bunch of questionable coaching decisions. The one that stood out to me in last night's gold medal game was the fact that they only played 4 defensive players and left a couple on the bench, not just for the game last night, but for the entire tournament. And it just seemed like a bad decision.
You mentioned Cavallini and the fact that she had torn her MCL in January. And I mentioned last night when we were on IG live that it looked like she was surprised and not able maybe to move as quickly, you know, down in that butterfly position, when she was protecting the net. And it was pretty apparent that as much as she played well throughout the tournament, that perhaps they had picked the wrong goalie last night, you know? Rooney was standing on the sidelines. So was Nicole Hensley, just standing on the sidelines, watching it all go down. And I mentioned on The Extra Hour that it was going to be down to the goalies. Ann-Renée was a wall, you know? She was a wall, and she was amazing the entire tournament. But not just that – the entire team was doing their jobs, you know? They were just, you know, mind-melded together, [laughs] as much as a hockey team could be.
And sometimes you see with those playoff games or those championship games just that last one, one of the teams kind of crumble. And I think of…You mentioned the Penguins, and I think of the times where they actually won the Stanley Cup, in the last couple of times, you know, and watching those games and seeing their opponent just kind of crumble in that very last game. And I got the same vibe, unfortunately. Even that frustration that we talked about last night was very evident from the captain down. And when you see the captain going into the box for stupid penalties, it's gotta affect the entire team and their confidence.
Shireen: That's something that I texted you, because Renee and I literally text across every conceivable platform, and we're finding more ways to communicate with each other. So for WhatsApp, I think it was after our IG live – we did an IG live last night after the first intermission – there’s what we see that psychological breakdown. And as much as hockey is very physical, it is also very much about mental acuity, and we saw those breakdowns. I mean, don't get me wrong. I know you love Knight. I love Hilary Knight too, and she's dangerous–
Renee: But she can’t do it all on her own.
Shireen: She can't. And I expected more from Kendall Coyne Schofield. I really did. I didn't see her step up in the ways I…Abby Roque was out there…
Renee: Yeah, it was just really frustrating. Megan Bozek, you know…It was really frustrating. And it felt kind of like, when we came out in the second, that it was Hilary Knight dragging everybody else behind her.
Shireen: I mean, Amanda Kessel had a goal.
Renee: Yeah. Amanda Kessel and Hil were just working their butts off to get some…I was going to say parity, but… [laughs]
Shireen: I know, we're not using that word.
Renee: We’re talking about parity. [laughter] Just to get something going. And it just fell flat, unfortunately. But you know what, honestly? Canada was the better team the entire tournament. They did not lose a game. You know, they were on point, and they just kept getting better every single game. And so did the US, but it just wasn’t enough. It really wasn’t.
Shireen: And I think one of the things that I really liked was the joy. And I mean, I will say this, because I've been waiting to talk about Black joy for a long time in hockey, because like, honestly, Sarah Nurse…Let’s just, just for a second. It’s Black History Month. And, you know, we know, especially on this show, we don't do a huge thing about Black History Month because we revel in the excellence of Black folks all year round, because they’re still Black in August and they’re still excellent, so we talk about it all the time. But I do want to talk about it now.
I want to talk about Sarah Nurse being the first Black woman to win a gold medal, being the only Black woman in this entire tournament, beating Hayley Wickenheiser’s previously set record of 17 points at the Olympics. Sarah Nurse is at 18! Sarah Nurse also has 13 assists in the Olympic tournament – a new record. So, there's many records. I know a lot of people are talking about the technical stuff, but I really want to stress about why it is important that Sarah Nurse is doing this. And Renee, I want you to tell me, as somebody that is not only community mobilizer and somebody that brings people together, tell me why it's important for us to see Sarah Nurse. I'm just gonna cradle my Sarah Nurse Barbie doll as you talk.
Renee: I'm going to get mine and cradle it as we talk. You know, honestly, representation matters. And as cliche and over-said that phrase is, it's a hundred percent true. There is going to be an entire generation of girls watching – and boys – watching these games and seeing Sarah Nurse play, and think, “If she can do it, I can do it,” right? She's not just the first Black woman to win gold and to play at this level – she's the only, right? And that is something that I think has been lost in the conversation, because when we remind folks that she is literally the only Black woman to ever play Olympic hockey, and we think of, you know, it's not been that long.
It's just been a couple of decades, but Angela James never did. Blake Bolden never did it. Saroya Tinker, Mikyla Grant-Mentis won't ever do it. And so that puts Sarah in an entirely nother class of athlete. She's done something. And in 2022, it gets tiring to say “the first Black woman to ever…” you know, fill in the blank. But it's also important to acknowledge it and to give her her flowers, because the trials and the things that she has been through to get to this point are probably more than we could even imagine. She is an amazing athlete, and we talked about this before, Shireen, that not only that, but she is her own PR agent, she has her own publicist. She has endorsement deals that she has cultivated because there is no league that is doing that for her. She is on her own, and she's doing it quite well.
I saw a post on Twitter saying, you know, that they hope that Sarah Nurse gets paid millions of dollars every year for the rest of her life, or as long as she plays hockey. And I agree. She deserves it. This is huge, not just for Team Canada, but specifically for Sarah Nurse and for Black communities who are involved in hockey, to see someone like Sarah, who is just a gem on and off the ice. You know, she's a big supporter of Black Girl Hockey Club. You know, all week long us talking on CBC, my caveat to USA winning was, you know what? I'm happy to see Sarah Nurse win a gold medal, and not just that, but to see her breaking records and getting that acknowledgement, you know? I hope that she is feeling the love right now from all over and from Black communities and from everyone, because she deserves it.
She's worked incredibly hard to get to this point, and she was no slouch in the Games. She was doing the most, right? With those 18 points, beating Wickenheiser’s previous record. Twice. That's huge! And it was great to watch her play. I hope to see her again in four years, but you know, we have to remember that these women are playing in between the Olympics, right? They talked about it a lot on the American broadcast, which I thought was really great. They brought up the PWHPA and the Dream Gap Tours. They're going to be actually playing in DC next month. I mean, can you imagine getting to see Olympic gold medalists play hockey? Let's do it! I think we should make a trip of it, Shireen. What do you think?
Shireen: A hundred percent. We'll go hang out with Fatou. One of the things that I think is really important here is, in addition to what you said that really hit me, is that she's the only, and what that mental she carries and that weight that comes with it, because, you know, we have Black women in hockey in different places. We have them, like you mentioned, even the Toronto Six…I got Tink jersey; you know, Black Rosie is now on the uniform of the Metropolitan Riveters for the PHF, the Premier Hockey Federation. So, we're seeing that. We're seeing that influence come in. But also, you know, after two years post-George Floyd's murder, the weight, the emotional weight on Black athletes has been enormous. And in a time where we've seen the rise of anti-Asian hate and violence against them in communities. So, as a non-Black person of color, to see Sarah Nurse thrive, like, I can't wait til I see a Muslim identifying person on one of these teams, on any of these teams.
And, you know, it's like, Sarah Nurse is saying that like it's 2022. Also, I do want to say that Sarah Nurse has come off an injury. She wasn't actually playing in the rivalry series earlier in the fall because she was coming off of a leg injury. I was worried that that would be a problem, and it was not a problem! Sis came ready! Black History Month, she came ready! So it's also, you know, for her to recover, and to talk about, that you were talking about earlier, about the chemistry within the team and the joy. I've watched and followed this team for a very long time. I'm old enough to remember their first time in Nagano. I know this team. There is a joy and there was a sincere joy of the way they share. Though, okay, yeah, so maybe that Sobey’s food commercial with her and Pou makes me cry every single time. It does. But also that she is recognizing the greats that come before, and she’s fostering that in others.
And seeing Pou and her interact, and seeing her on that line, you know, and seeing her on the team. There's a lot of joy, particularly in the country. And I will remind people of this til I'm blue in the face: Canada doesn't have its own domestic women's league. And I say this all the time because I think it's criminal at this point. We’re gold medalists in soccer and we're gold medalists in hockey and we do not have a league in either of those sports. Nor in basketball. And Kia Nurse, Sarah Nurse's cousin, she's a WNBA player also from Hamilton, Ontario. That family, I mean, can you imagine the pickup games at Thanksgiving?
Renee: Right!
Shireen: That’d be intense. But all these things…So, Renee, we’re not out of the woods yet, in women’s hockey.
Renee: Not at all. I mean, one thing that I really appreciated was seeing all over my social media, and even like I said, hearing on the American broadcasts, the reminder that this isn't the only time that you can see these women play. If you want to support this Olympic team, whether it's the Canadians or the US team, you can support the PWHPA, you can support women's hockey in those years in between the Olympics. And I think that's something that we need to just continue to reiterate til we're blue in the face. And I know it's like preaching to the choir when we're talking to Burn It All Down audience members, or flamethrowers as you call them.
But I think it's important to keep saying it, because I loved noticing the rest of the world kind of getting that lightbulb moment, understanding that, wait a minute, these women are amazing. They are better than the men's team in both countries! And yet they don't have the money, the resources, and the support in their countries to continue on professional playing when they're not at the Olympics. And I saw a lot of folks talking about how the men's game would have been better or different if the NHL players were there. But I think that's beside the point, like, the women, especially the Canadian women, are legendary, right? And on both sides. The USA has some amazing players. I mean, you know how much I love Hilary Knight, Amanda Kessel, Kendall Coyne Schofield, you know? All of them. They are amazing. And they deserve to have a space to play. They deserve to have that support within their country – not just when they're playing on the ice.
And like, don't even get me started talking about USA hockey and the Olympic committee and how they treated those women in the last four years. I mean, even before the 2018 Olympics and the things that the USA team had to do to even get some sort of equitable wage for playing. This is something that when I…In the times where I have taught, my students know this argument, because it's ridiculous to me that the women have had to go through so much in order just to get the bare minimum in the United States. And we have a league! We have the PHF, the Premier Hockey Federation. Canada doesn't even have that for their players. And so until we can get that support, that financial infrastructure support in women's hockey…Oh, god, am I circling back around talking about parity? There's not going to be any, right? It has to be financially supported, not just in the US and in Canada, but all over the world.
Shireen: And during the medal ceremony, I saw that the commentator was saying – and props to Cheryl Pounder for doing a great job at the CBC with her play by play. But there was also commentary that Sweden was going to be investing more, like Finland, a bronze medalist. We love to see this. Like, a lot of these players – it’s a smaller community of DI women's hockey – were teammates at college. So they know each other. As much as there's rivalry…And in my opinion, this is the best rivalry in sports. Like, I follow enough sports with rivalries, whether they're derbies in football, like proper football or whatnot. The Canada-US women, it's a history of its own.
And I saw the faces at the medal ceremony, because those were our faces. That was my face four years ago! But what's gonna come next, you know? With Carpenter and, like you said, just seeing their faces. I mean, there was some rumor that it may be Hilary Knight's last Olympics, but I don't know. Marie-Philip Poulin is 30, she could have a two Olympics left. Like, I don't know who makes up these arbitrary numbers. You know what I'm saying? But at the same time, I do hate that. And I wrote a column about this for the CBC earlier, just before the games started, just talking about I do want people to support women's hockey, period. I want it, whether it's PHF, whether it’s PWHPA. I want that to happen. Whether it's college, whether it's community, whether it's Black Girl Hockey Club – support scholarship winners! Send your money, send your money.
But also, I do not like this conversation, just to get back to something you were saying, about “the NHLers didn't go so it gave the women the spotlight.” I don't know who needs to hear this, but I'm going to say this clear: the women got the spotlight because the women deserved the fucking spotlight, full stop. That’s it.
Renee: They're amazing. And you know, I have mixed feelings about the NHLers not going. But ultimately in the last four years, eight years, this has been the show, the women’s hockey tournaments. And you know, with or without the NHLers, it's still the best rivalry in hockey, I would say. And it was really fun last night to not only chat with you on our multiple platforms, but also to see my entire Twitter timeline talking about women's hockey and reinforcing this idea that there is an audience for this, and folks need to invest. I just, as I was watching the game last night, listening to…And I watched on NBC, because I'm not allowed to watch CBC in my area. But I'm watching on NBC, and to hear these NBC announcers calling this game so professionally, compared to how we watch the Premier Hockey Federation play, and the camera angles and the announcers.
I mean, it was so fresh and fun to watch this very high quality feed of hockey. And I just remember wishing that we had that same level of professionalism the rest of the year, you know? The rest of the time. Instead of these like high, horrible angled, gritty feeds that we get with women's hockey right now. And so I think right now is a good time for change and shifting and new narratives. You know, Canada being good at hockey is not necessarily a new narrative, but focusing on these record-breaking women like Sarah Nurse and Hilary Knight. I mean, you talked about Pou being, a little bit older and Hilary maybe having played in her last Olympics. And I heard this morning, “Hilary Knight, the oldest player on Team USA” and she’s like thirty! [laughs] She's a baby!
Shireen: She looks like she's 15 still. Like, she looks so young.
Renee: Don’t get me started on Hilary. She looks so amazing. In her second intermission interview, it's unfair that she looked that good after playing two periods of hockey.
Shireen: Well, you know, this is no secret that she is my crush. After Julie Chu, it's Hilary Knight. And I try to focus my attention on the Canadian women exclusively, but like, it’s hard.
Renee: You keep your Canadians. Hilary’s mine. [Shireen laughs] I know this, alright? We've talked about this already. And like, after Geno it's Hilary. I can't help myself. That's just what it is. [laughs]
Shireen: It is what it is. And I get it. In fact, Dr. Courtney Szto, our friend, has photos of me meeting Hilary Knight, and she looked a little bit scared of me because I was real excited to say hi to her. I was giving her some Burn It All Down decals. I gotta find those photos and send them to you.
Renee: Yes, please! Send them. [laughs]
Shireen: But you know, I think that one of the things that I love most about this is the excitement. Everybody is excited. I mean, I know you love Cros – he's from Nova Scotia! But I don't remember feeling this jazzed up about the men's hockey. And like, Canadian men’s hockey has done very, very well. But the excitement and like the relevance to it…And I do want to say this: every player on the Canadian team is in the PWHPA. And that means something, right? The level there. Because I mean, they're league mates, most of them. But that there is this tenacity and there's this drive and there's this focus and there's this joy in hockey that we get to see and they get to share it with us.
So, I'm forever grateful. I'm forever grateful for you, because I love you being out there being like “Go USA!” You with your little Captain America bobblehead. [Renee laughs] I'm like, you're so cute. That's so great. But I also love that, and I love that competition, because what better way? And I said this yesterday on The Extra Hour on CBC, what better way to respect your opponent than to try to be your best and beat them? Like, what's better than that? That's what we want.
Renee: I mean, the rivalry is strong. The words are stronger. One thing that I noticed yesterday as I was on the USA Hockey website, I was looking for some names and looking at the roster, and I see the picture of everyone on the Olympic team for USA hockey, women's hockey. And it was so pale and bright white. I was blinded. There's no color on that team and there never has been. And I mean, you know, we've got Julie Chu. Yes, you know? We've got Abby Roque. Awesome! But it's very, very pale, and we need a little bit of diversity in USA Hockey, in general. I mean, you know how I talk – from the front office all the way down to the ice. I mean, the ice is important, but that diversity needs to happen within USA Hockey and let it trickle down to the ice, because, I mean, in 2022, it's so disconcerting to see that they don't have any coaches or team staff or players that are Black. And why is that, USA Hockey? Please, enlighten me.
And I could give a couple of answers about, you know, the men's coaching, you know? John V, Mr. N-word. And yet he's still in charge of USA Hockey. I mean, there's a lot of issues there. And, you know, we talking about the coaching decisions. The administrative decisions and the coaching decisions and the decisions of the higher ups in USA Hockey has been detrimental to the team, on both the men's side and the women's side at this point. And that needs to be acknowledged and it needs to change. And I hope we see that change in the next four years so that when Team USA comes out in…Italy? Is that what I heard with the CBC team?
Shireen: Yep. Milan.
Renee: Milan. Yes. Never been.
Shireen: You and me in Milan doing fashion week. I’m so there.
Renee: We're going to be the most fashionable and we're going to be eating well. That's all I know.
Shireen: And we'll fit in some games from time to time as we eat and fashionistas.
Renee: Of course. We’ll be dressed to nines.
Shireen: 100%. I mean, you know me. When we do our hits on CBC, I'm dressed up. Bottom, it’s like pajama pants. But I mean, I still think that's a look. [Renee laughs] That's a look. But I love what you're saying, and by no means am I forgiving or…You know, I wrote a piece last summer actually on Hockey Canada, based on a paper that Dr. Courtney Szto and her academic disruptors, whom we love very much, wrote about, whether it was everything from acknowledgement of Indigenous participation in sport in Canada, and whether it was anti-Blackness, it was everything. So, I mean, just because we've got Sarah Nurse doesn't mean that we’ve solved racism. [laughs]
Renee: Right.
Shireen: Like, let's be real clear about that. And I think that that's something that we need to look to, which is why I love what you said. It's from the front office all the way down. And we want to see coaches. We want to see officials. We want to see all across the gamut. But what I am excited about, and I'm grateful to you for, and I say to you, and you don't love it when I shower you with compliments. It's just because I know you don't love this. You've really created a space and re-energized people, and I'm so grateful to you, because I probably would have broken up with hockey. I tried and then the Canadiens went to the finals last year. And I tried real hard, but it was losing me. And there's a joy in women's hockey that I have not experienced elsewhere in the same way. There's a joy, like, that's all I can say, is there is a joy. And you have a bit of a huge part to do with that, Renee. You saved me and hockey! You saved us.
Renee: [laughs] You know, I totally agree on the joy part. It was really fun to watch even my diehard Team USA American friends cheering for Sarah and her accomplishments. And for Pou and her accomplishments. And we've talked about this rivalry and how, while the teams are playing against each other, the actual members of the team, the women, are friends, and in some cases wives and partners. And so I was listening and they didn't actually mention the Canadian team specifically, but on the American broadcast last night, they showed the different universities that the American teams were representing. And there were so many of them that played together in college. And the funny thing is, on the other side, there are women who played with the Americans in college. I believe that ARD is a Badger, I think?
Shireen: Yep. And I mean, Sarah Nurse is as well.
Renee: Exactly!
Shireen: Sarah Fillier from Princeton. There's nowhere…That’s exactly the point, that there's nowhere for Canadian women to go other than to the States to play. And in fact, that feeds into another point, that they’re some of the most educated athletes in the world because there's no sustainability afterwards, so they stay in university. And this is also a paper…I keep dropping Courtney's name, but Dr. Courtney Szto actually wrote a paper with a couple of players and other academics and people in this space about this and what the hockey space looks like. So I think that's so important, that those relationships are there.
And I mean, we saw that adorable…I sent you that thing yesterday, where Pou and Hilary Knight, who both played on Les Canadiennes together in the CWHL before it folded in 2019, they were shooting pucks at an apple pie and bottle of maple syrup – not going to lie, that’s a lot of wasted food, so my brown self was like, what is happening here? [Renee laughs] I was like, maple syrup is expensive and that apple pie, I would eat that!
Renee: Yeah, shoot over that pie, Hilary!
Shireen: Shoot over it, you know? But that camaraderie, like, you love to see it. But also there's a way that these women have navigated that competition and their friendships that's really something we can look at and aspire to do.
Renee: Yeah. I said it before, and I'll say it again. The NHL could never. Like, the boys could never.
Shireen: The who! [laughs]
Renee: Yeah, right? Exactly. [laughs]
Shireen: And I did not know this. I do also want to thank you – I did not know that Sidney Crosby could crush a watermelon with his thighs. That was–
Renee: Oh my god. That was private!
Shireen: Oh, sorry.
Renee: It was on Twitter. [Shireen laughs] Yeah. And the Penguins’ Twitter account teased the fandom, I think it was in the summer, with a picture of a crushed watermelon, like in their parking lot, with the caption that said “Leg day.” And just imagining…Oh, don't even get me started. This is going to get past the PG mark, [Shireen laughs] but those thighs and that watermelon coming together to make a beautiful, beautiful, crushed watermelon…
Shireen: Ok, so, Burn It All Down after dark. [Renee laughs] We’re not going to get into that. But again, this information is imperative for hockey people.
Renee: I know, and I come with the facts! I told you, in real life, my friends call me Clutch, and it's not because…Well, the reason is because I come through with the random facts of knowledge in the most unreasonable times. Kind of like Marie-Philip Poulin, but not exactly.
Shireen: [laughs] Yeah, you're just like her.
Renee: Just like her!
Shireen: You know, the woman or man to score four times in gold medal games, only hockey player to ever do this in history.
Renee: Game winning goals in all of them.
Shireen: Game winning goals in four Olympic Games. It's incredible. So, I love you.
Renee: I love you!
Shireen: And I love this. Tressa, we love you. And Tressa by the way, I'm just going to add this, I think is secretly Canadian. [Renee laughs] I'm taking a liberty here. Also I do appreciate my Burn It All Down sisters who let me have my space and just kind of humored me and let me go off everywhere. And I do appreciate that. And Renee, you are an expert. You are honestly one of the guardians of this game, and love having you in this space. I'm so honored you took time, because I know you're busy. It’s a busy time and you're in demand, and we love you for this. Where can our listeners find you and Black Girl Hockey Club? And do you want them to find you? [laughs]
Renee: Well, let's see. You know how private I am, but I do have a public Twitter. You can find me at @ReneeHess. But really I want you to follow @BlackGirlHockeyClub, check out blackgirlhockeyclub.org. We're a nonprofit organization – if you don't know, now you know – that supports Black women in hockey. And really that is where I want to point people in that direction, because if they find my secret Instagram account, all they're going to see is cat pictures and selfies. And, you know, we're saving that for my close circle of friends. And that's just for us. But you can find us on social media, check out the website. And like Shireen said, support women's hockey and Black folks all year round.
Shireen: Thank you so much, Renee, for being with us today. You heard it here. Go Canada, go! Go, women’s hockey, go! Go, Black women, all the time.
Renee: Go, Sarah Nurse, go!
Shireen: Go, Sarah Nurse! [laughs]