Interview: Annie Costabile, Chicago Sun-Times Reporter, on the WNBA All-Star Game
In this episode Lindsay Gibbs talks with Annie Costabile, Chicago Sky beat reporter for the Chicago Sun-Times, about the 2022 WBNA All-Star Game that was held in Chicago. They discuss the best and the worst of the event.
Lindsay also shares resources to learn more about Brittney Griner's ongoing wrongful detainment in Russia. To sign the petition to bring BG home, visit wearebg.org.
This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.
Transcript
Lindsay: Hi friends, Lindsay here. As of today, it has been 147 days since Brittney Griner was wrongfully detained in Russia. We are discussing the All Star game in this episode, and a lot of the All Star game was about raising awareness and bringing attention to Brittney Griner's plight. You can go to the website wearebg.org. Once again, that's wearebg.org to find out more information about how to support Griner and join the campaign to bring her home
Lindsay: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Burn It All Down, the feminist sports podcast you need. I am Lindsay Gibbs. I am here with you today in this July summer break edition of Burn It All Down. If you've missed the announcements, we're not doing our Tuesday shows for the next few weeks, but we are bringing you an interview every Thursday, and this week it worked out perfectly because I was able to get Annie Costabile from the Chicago Sun-Times, a Chicago Sky beat reporter extraordinaire, here joining me to talk about a lot of things, but Annie, we're gonna have to start with All Star. [laughs]
Annie: I mean, let's get into it! I've seen so many hot takes that I'm just…I’m actually writing about this today. So, perfect timing. I mean, everyone's talking about this. But I also just have to say, I am a huge fan of Burn It All Down, so when Lindsay DM’ed me, it was kind of like a pinch me moment. I'm like, no! I get to be on one of my favorite podcasts? Stop!
Lindsay: We're so excited to have you. Okay. So look, All Star weekend was in Chicago. I wanna start with the positives. You know, there was obviously…I’m sure if you're listening to this, you might be aware that there's some complaints, some criticisms of what went on at All Star weekend, but there was some good stuff as well. The in arena experience looked really electric, and it was aired on ABC, which we love. What did it feel like in the arena?
Annie: The arena was so good. It was marked as a sellout crowd, which, sellout for Wintrust is just over 10,000. But the fan total that we were given was just under 10,000. So I think it was about like 9,800 fans were in attendance. So it was close to a sellout, and that was for sure felt throughout the entire game, starting with the starters being announced and descending from the concourse level onto the court. So as they came out, they got to high five fans. Candace obviously received a huge roar from the crowd when she was announced – is the hometown player, and she's led the Sky to the top spot in the league right now. So when she was announced, it was really exciting. And then in the game, obviously Sylvia's dunk, in my opinion, was the greatest moment of the game.
Lindsay: Yeah. Let's stop there. So, this is the final All Star game for both Sylvia Fowles and Sue Bird, and they were kind of named as co-captains to the teams. The teams were set, it was Brianna Stewart and A’ja Wilson by votes for the captains, but you know, honorary captains. And then Syl…Right out the gate, right? Like, I was kind of watching the highlights on replay, but she decides to throw it down, right? Talk me through the dunk.
Annie: So, the funny thing from my perspective about the dunk was Candace and Kahleah were matched up on each other, and Candace was in Kahleah’s face, like, you’re not gonna score on me. So I pull out my camera, because I'm like, oh, Sky fans will love this moment happening between Kahleah and Candace right now. And then meanwhile, on the opposite end of the court, Syl gets a steal, heads down court towards the basket. I'm like, oh my god, is she…Is she about to? So I had this moment recorded. It was just perfect timing. And yes, she dunks, and everybody absolutely loses it. [Lindsay laughs] Fans lose it. Both benches lose it. Courtney runs off the bench onto the court, arms up, and just like complete support, shock, just excitement.
And then Candace and Skylar are standing next to each other. Skylar wraps Candace up in complete shock. It was just a great moment. And then the cherry on top was Sylvia like skipping down the court into the arms of A’ja Wilson, who in the postgame was like, I was shook. That was what she said about the dunk, was that she was completely shook. And Sylvia said, you know, it wasn't like she knew she was gonna do it, but as she's dribbling up the court, she said the hype from the fans, seeing the faces of both her teammates and then the opposing bench, she was like, let me just go for it.
Lindsay: It's so funny, because Sylvia is not a flashy player at all. [laughs] You know, she's so down to earth and modest off the court. Sweet Syl is her nickname for a reason, because she's just so sweet. And a lot of times these dunks are premeditated. Like, I remember in 2017 when I was covering the All Star game in Seattle, and Jonquel Jones, I think it was only her second year in the league, but everyone was really goading on Jonquel to dunk. And it happened at the end of the game, and everyone kind of – unnaturally, I would say – cleared out the way for her. Do you know what I mean? Like, it wasn’t super in the flow of a game.
Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay: And so I think what made this Sylvia moment was so cool is A) it was so out of character for her, B) she's in year 14, which, as Arike Ogunbowale tweeted, like, oh my god. Year 14!
Annie: Isn't it year 15? She was drafted in 2008.
Lindsay: Oh, well, I'm just going by Arike's tweet. [laughter] So blame Arike. [laughs]
Annie: Blame it on Arike. Yeah, I think it's year 15, because her and Candace are in the same year together.
Lindsay: Okay. And it's just like, absolutely it was so cool. But I think, you know, if we're talking about controversies, I think we can start with like how Black players are treated, and especially how players like Sylvia Fowles, who aren't really big on pushing their social media, are a little bit more under the radar, and how the media can completely forget about them at times. Describe what happened during the sendoffs. But it seemed like the in arena experience and then the TV experience were very different for the moments when Sue and Syl were taken out of the game.
Annie: Yeah. So, that's what I was interested in seeing or reading after the game, because it became apparent that from watching and from being there, that the sendoff came across very differently. So I was writing, and anybody, you know, who's writing on deadline or getting their stuff ready, knows like you can miss things. You know, you're like so locked in that no matter how loud a moment is, you're like, wait, what just happened? So, postgame, Sue explained James Wade's desire to make sure that she was put on the court and then taken off to have like a moment. We didn't hear that explanation from Sylvia. Like, she didn't explain the sendoff in the same way. So I don't know what Becky Hammon's intentions were, and I don't wanna, you know, assume what they were.
But so Sue, she was taken off before Sylvia. And as she's being taken off the court, the announcer is like, for the final time, Sue Bird coming off the court, you know, the whole thing. And so as Sue's coming off the court – again, this is just a guess – but from my vantage point, it seemed like Becky was like, okay, yeah, Sue's coming off, let's take Syl off. And so as Syl's coming off, the announcer's saying Sue, and the entire arena stands in a standing ovation for both of them. Like, people behind me, around me are all screaming for Sylvia actually. Like, that's the name I was hearing.
Lindsay: Well, she, she played in Chicago obviously, so Chicago knows her so well. Yeah.
Annie: Right. So in all of that, I didn't hear the PA announce or say Sylvia's name. And I think if he did, he said it after she had already gotten to the bench. It wasn't as she was walking off like it was for Sue. So that was a difference in just exits.
Lindsay: It seems like ESPN, it wasn't even whether it was the PA announcer. It seemed like ABC's did not notice that Sylvia was getting let off, and fully focused on Sue Bird in that moment, which is ridiculous because it seems like everyone I've talked to in arena was like, no, it was for both. But then it just seems like ABC…And it's just, you know, it's another one of those little unforced errors, right? [laughs] It’s just like, the league, take a moment before the game, get the coaches together, right? You know you have two of these legends retiring, you know, this is their last All Star game. They're both honorary captains. Make sure that there's gonna be a moment at the end of the game. Becky Hammon, this being her first time kind of coaching in this, maybe she didn't think through it as much, right? But she shouldn't have been the only one kind of thinking about, thinking through it. Just make sure it's coordinated.
I also heard that the game ball got given to Sue, like, the ref sought out Sue to give Sue the game ball, and then Sue sought out Sylvia to give it to Sylvia. [laughs] And it's just like, why were there not two game balls already ready? Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just like little things like this that just…I don't know if they're of malicious intent, but they just compound these very real frustrations. And they would be so easy to get ahead of. [laughs]
Annie: Absolutely. I think the planning, like you said, on the front end, that should have been an established thing. I'm gonna take Sue off, you know, two minutes later, make sure Sylvia has her own individual moment. Again, you know, being there live was different than the broadcast. And so that perspective that ABC didn't notice or acknowledge Sylvia’s exit in the same way, it was definitely very different in the arena.
Lindsay: That's great.
Annie: Fans and the PA announcer acknowledged it as two separate things.
Lindsay: And that's good. Like, that does matter a lot. And you know, I do think anyone who pays attention to the WNBA knows, like, I mean, Syl is an MVP. She is gonna be so missed. Chicago did a really special presentation giving her like a recliner for her retirement, because she of course was drafted to the Sky, started her career to the Sky. And that was a really sweet moment. Another kind of I would say unforced error – look, Wimbledon just finished, I've got all my tennis metaphors in my head – but was the trophy presentation for the MVP. [laughs]
Annie: Oh my gosh.
Lindsay: So, this game ends, All Star MVP Kelsey Plum set a record or tied a record with 30 points, had just such a great game. And look, it's so exciting to see a former number one pick who started off her career maybe not as dominant as people expected, right? And you know, it took her a couple more years to kind of find her footing. She had a bad injury. But then to see her kind of really shining, getting this moment. And then the trophy she is handed… [laughs]
Annie: So embarrassing.
Lindsay: It looked like it was from a cereal box. [laughs]
Annie: Okay. It looked truly like it was from a cereal box. It was tiny. The trophy was truly tiny. I'm not sure why this trophy continues to change and why this year's was so tiny, but it was truly comical.
Lindsay: It's just dumb! Like, just get a normal sized trophy. If that trophy had just been like, well, probably triple or quadruple, because it was so small. But if they had just spent, I don't know, 200 more dollars on the damn trophy, like it just didn't have to be… [laughs]
Annie: Right. So tiny. It's the MVP trophy. It should reflect the award. And the funniest part about it is the jokes that her and her teammates had over it the next day. Like, did you see her Instagram story? Anybody who didn't see it…
Lindsay: It was the funniest. So if anyone hasn't heard, we'll put it in the show notes. On Instagram, her Las Vegas Aces teammate, Theresa Plaisance, who is hysterical, did a skit in front of like the whole team, including Kelsey Plum, and giving the trophy to Dearica Hamby, who was standing in for Kelsey Plum, and she handed her a GoGo squeeZ bottle, like a little… [laughs] I think my favorite part of the whole video was when Theresa Plaisance said, “You don't have to give it back. You get to keep it.” [laughter] Like, talking about the trophy. What was your favorite part of the parody video?
Annie: Oh my god. It was for sure Theresa saying, “The prestigious…” and like, thrusting this little drink up in the air and using the word prestigious, and all of the drama of it. Like, I am such a dramatic person. I love that. And her emphasis on prestigious and like, her acting chops, like thrusting this up. For sure. Hands down, from start to finish, cracking up over this video. And that was another thing, mid writing, you’re not seeing the actual size of the trophy, right? And plus they're at center court, we're kind of off in this corner. So I didn't see the actual size of the trophy until, you know, you log on social media after and you're like, wait, what's everyone bugging out about about the trophy? And then you see it, and it really is this tiny thing. And my thing too was, Cathy, just hand the trophy over to her. Why are you trying to hold onto the other side of the trophy? Just hand her the trophy!
Lindsay: [laughs] Meredith Minkow pointed this out on Twitter, that when Cathy put it over, she kept her hand on one hand and walked…
Annie: She had her hand on it until Kelsey was finally like, just gimme the trophy, and takes the trophy. Like, it's that small, Cathy, you don't need to help her carry this to center court. She's got it.
Lindsay: It’s so stupid. It's just another one of those things. Like, this is just ridiculous. All right. But it does sound like, and I read from your reporting, that the players all had a good time at the game itself and felt really supported. Also heard there were a lot of great player parties throughout the weekend, maybe better than usual All Star games, and like brands and things like that are kind of stepping up to make it feel like a more VIP type experience. Is that kind of what you've heard as well?
Annie: Yeah. So I'm glad you're asking this, because this brings up some of these hot takes that I, from speaking to players, just kind of need to get ignored.
Lindsay: Alright, squash ‘em. Put ‘em out.
Annie: Yeah, let’s squash them. So, this hot take that the WNBA needs to always have the All Star game as an introduction to summer league is really not that brilliant of an idea as I think some people think it is. So, the reason I say that is, after talking to players, this in their minds was the best All Star game so far for one reason. And maybe, you know, there's multiple, but the biggest reason that I've heard reiterated was the fact that they were able to team up with these different brands, different companies, and throw these individual parties that were a celebration, but were also a way to elevate their identity and their stardom a little bit, or that star aspect was elevated in a different way than it has been in previous years.
And, you know, to that point of the WNBA All Star game opening up for summer league, the WNBA I think needs to separate itself from being an introduction to what is deemed by many as glorified practice. Like, summer league is glorified practice. Because I saw LeBron James retweeted and said, you know, love this idea. And so if LeBron James is backing an idea, it's like everyone kind of thinks it's a good idea. And you know, there's reasons why people think that's a good idea, but what I think is getting missed is that the WNBA needs to stand alone. You know, were there missteps this weekend? Absolutely. And we're gonna get into them. But the WNBA does not need to be the appetizer to the NBA summer league.
Lindsay: No, no. First of all, I think that would only work if it was treated as the marquee event of summer league, right? Like, put in prime time, put in the best slots, given the best things. I do think, first of all, it's not usually exactly during summer league like this. Remember, this schedule this year is a little bit earlier. The timing doesn't always overlap. Usually it's kind of like one's coming and one's going type deal, and that was Vegas a couple of years ago. The main reason though why this came up as a talking point was because of some of the things it seemed the league botched about this All Star. And that's what got…I think you've always done something wrong when people start saying, “Has there ever been a good All Star?” and like, questioning like the very existence of the event, because that's how off the rails things got.
The first big thing that people were upset about was that the day before…So, the WNBA just recently, a few years ago, started holding the skills competition as a separate thing. First of all, there were a few years that they didn't even have a three point competition. Then it brought the three point competition back, and had it during halftime of the All Star game. Then it did a standalone day of the skills competition. In Vegas in 2019, that was an absolute blast. The fans loved it. It got good TV time. It was, I think, a hit. Obviously the last two years have been weird because of COVID, and then this year they did hold it standalone, but it wasn't open to the public. It was in, you know, kind of a makeshift like conference room set up type thing. It wasn't in the arena.
And it also wasn't clear, I don't believe, to the media or fans, that it wasn't gonna be open to the public until very, very last minute. Whether the WNBA was actively trying to hide it or it was just a miscommunication or just a fine print issue, I don't know. But it seemed a lot of people were taken aback by this and surprised by this, even though it had obviously been in the works. So can you, since you're in Chicago, you've been reporting on this. How long has All Star game in Chicago been in the works? You know, being on the ground, what was your observation of how it was handled?
Annie: So, they have been communicating about All Star in Chicago since like November, December timeframe. From the reporting I've done, that's my understanding. And they knew that Wintrust Arena was not available to use on Saturday ahead of Sunday's game. It was already rented out. Wintrust Arena is not owned by Sky ownership. So, that space was already rented out to a Pampered Chef event that that was going on, and they didn't have access to Wintrust Arena until 7:00pm on Saturday night. And that's not access as in, oh, the event could have started at 7:00pm on Saturday. That's they couldn't get in there to even start setting up for the game on Sunday until that timeframe. So, they knew that this was unavailable, and the reason why it still made sense to host the game in Chicago, from the league perspective, was because Nike nationals was going on. So their frame on it was, okay, we're gonna take this to like the grassroots level and have this moment where the league teams up with Nike nationals players and makes this exclusive event to Nike national players.
Lindsay: What is Nike nationals, in case people aren’t…?
Annie: So, Nike nationals is an AAU tournament that is hosted every year. It's in Chicago quite often. And so, it's some of the best players in high school basketball and youth basketball coming to town to compete against other teams across the country. So, those players and their families were who were in attendance for the events on Saturday, and that they shared the same court. So, Nike nationals was going on at McCormick Center. So Saturday's event was set up to go on at McCormick Center.
Lindsay: Gotcha. And I think that makes sense, but I think it's still…I obviously understand the frustration of fans.
Annie: Oh yeah.
Lindsay: Also I know it was booted off of ESPN2, and turned to ESPNU, which a lot of people don't have, because the Wimbledon doubles final ran late. And look, I'm a huge tennis fan. Everyone knows that. And honestly I'm sure that the reason they did that is because they paid a whole lot more for Wimbledon rights and it was probably in their contract that they had to have the Wimbledon on a certain thing. Whereas we all know, WNBA contracts, not that good when it comes to TV rights. So hopefully that's changing soon. But you know, I just think, again, it feels like it's a lack of creativity. It's a lack of trying. Like, I know there's some HBCUs in the area, that people were like, why couldn't it have been held in one of those arenas? You know, why couldn't we have done something a little bit different so that at least some fans could be invited to this event, could come. Because it changes All Star weekend really into All Star day.
Annie: Right. And that's the thing too, is when we saw the announcement for who even the participants were, and there was an expectation that obviously Allie was going to participate in the three point contest. I know she didn't start actually being open to that idea until very late. Like, she wasn't this entire time, since All Star was announced, saying, oh, I wanna be in the three point contest for a long time. She was saying, even though it was in Chicago, she was still saying, you know, no, I said I was done, I'm really done. It wasn’t until we were about a month out from the All Star game that she said, or I think it was even under a month, it was like a couple weeks out, that she was like, you know, I've changed my mind. If the league asks me, I will participate. And so once she said that, the league, if this was a ticketed event, this is a hometown player shooting in her last three point contes. That would sell tickets. Like, people wanted to come and see Allie shoot, Allie make history. It did seem like a very dropped ball situation.
Lindsay: You have to incorporate the fans somehow. And it did feel like they were hiding something because it was so, you know…Like, it just wasn't clear, and wasn't made clear to the media. And I just think that it was a bad look overall. I mean, let's say you can't get Wintrust. You find some other arena that's open in the summer. And let’s say it's smaller, right? So you say we're doing 2000 tickets open to the public, right? Like, first come, first serve. You know, you do something like that, and you make it a really hot ticket, but you still allow there to be some sort of fan involvement.
Annie: Right. Because, but to fans who are saying, oh, why didn't they just host it at the United Center? That's an entirely different commitment financially to shift from an arena like Wintrust to hosting a one day event at the United Center. But there were, like you said, there were other options. Chicago State is not far from Wintrust Arena. There are other options that could have been utilized to host a ticketed event. It very much seemed like a…
Lindsay: A dropped ball. We’re just like, why aren't we even trying, it just feels like sometimes, you know? And it's hard not to see that, like, you know, not having fans at the All Star, and that small trophy, like, as much as we laugh at it. I'm sorry. It just gives the impression that your expectations are low for this. Do you know what I mean? That the people who's running it have low expectations.
Annie: And that's the thing that I've heard from players since All Star has ended and just conversations and questions being asked, is that overall they felt like this was the best All Star game there's been, but they still felt planning was poor. And the three point contest and the skills challenge is a perfect example of that. And that, you know, is on the league and the host city to do a better job planning for its players. You know, it's like with the WNBA, there always seems to be a win in one lane and then all these things that are still lagging behind.
Lindsay: There's so much out of your control in any industry, but especially in women's sports. You're dealing with so much hate, you're dealing with so much…You can only fight for so much media. You're dealing with contracts that might have been signed decades ago that don't properly prioritize you. There's a lot that's out of your control. So what is in your control? Why don't you make that the best as possible, right? Like, some of these things are in your control. One more thing. There was also…I know there was a Chance the Rapper concert. It was outside, but it was not open to the public. It was kind of a VIP event. And when asked about this, commissioner Cathy Engelbert said that it was because of concern about gun violence and safety that it wasn't open to the public. What have you learned about that? And have you heard any rumblings from players about how that's been handled?
Annie: You know, players didn't speak to Cathy Engelbert's statement about it being due to gun violence, but they said it felt like poor planning, not a threat of gun violence. So, you know, reporting I'm doing now is that that's untrue. A CPD spokesperson confirmed to me that they did not inform the WNBA that they had to limit their outdoor events because of threats of gun violence or violence of any capacity. In these situations and in their planning of any event, you know, any outdoor event, the CPD handles it on individual case by case basis and plans accordingly for any type of security that's necessary. And there was planning done between the CPD and the WNBA, but in that planning it was never said that you need to limit your outdoor events because of gun violence. That just wasn't said.
Lindsay: It’s just mind-boggling! I'm sorry. Like, it's just, it's very frustrating. And to kind of parrot the “gun violence in Chicago” line, you know, like, it felt very coded. I don't know what the real reason was, but you've gotta have a better answer than that. And ideally not even have this happen in the first place.
Annie: Yeah. You know, obviously more reporting needs to be done, and I'm waiting to hear back from the league now on it. So, you know, by the time this episode airs, I may have heard back and, you know, I'm currently working on a story now. So, in that story, there may be more clarification from the league on why that blatant lie was told. But right now, I haven't gotten an answer from the league on why that lie was told.
Lindsay: And it's just, you know, this has led to…And we’re not gonna get deep into this now. I'm sure we will in future Burn It All Down episodes when we’ve found out more and the stories develop, but you know, because of the way that line came across, people started digging into Cathy Engelbert’s political past and donations, and found receipts of donations to Republican campaigns. It was Joseph Zucker, Seattle Storm fan on social media. He's worked with Bleacher Report and, you know, it's public information that she’s…So I think the last candidate donation that's public was Mitch McConnell, and that was in 2014. So it was a ways back, but I think there's certainly things she needs to answer to.
Lindsay: When I'm talking about Chicago and the WNBA and I want to think positive things – I literally do, and I'm not just saying this because you're here – I think about your coverage, and the Chicago Sun-Times, and how rare it is to have a full-time beat reporter on a WNBA team, even during the offseason. Is the Sky like your main, full-time beat?
Annie: Yeah. I cover 365 days of the year, except when, you know, you're on vacation. [laughs] Which is rare.
Lindsay: Yeah. And it's like, you know, we're actually…I always give the Washington Post credit, because they've always had somebody on staff that covers the Mystics, and Kareem Copeland is there now and does a great job, but he's got a lot of other beats as well. You know, it's just so rare. So how did this job kind of come about? Was it always just the Sky? Is this something you've had to really fight for?
Annie: So I feel like to explain how all this happened, I have to acknowledge like when I graduated college and even when I was in college, we were taught and told the jobs are covering men's sports. Like, the men's sports were always prioritized, even starting in college. So when I graduated college, I very much had this conditioned mentality that I, in order to be a professional journalist, I had to aspire to cover men's sports. And so when I took a job in Mississippi, I was covering all high school sports. So, you know, across the board, I was in charge of the high school section there. And when I came back and took this job in Chicago, I remember thinking of different story pitches to just, you know, get my foot in the door with the sports department. Like, Chicago sports, the Chicago sports market, and a paper like the Sun-Times is…You know, I've been reading it my whole life. Like, you don't just waltz into this paper and make a mark.
So, I remember seeing there was no coverage of Tierna Davidson, who was the number one overall pick for the Red Stars that year. And you know, every time someone gets drafted by any of these men's sports leagues, there's these blowout stories on them, right? You know, there's pages and pages of coverage who the number one overall pick is. Like, she wasn't just picked, she was the number one overall pick. If the Bulls had a number one overall pick, if any of these other sports teams had the number one overall pick, again, pages of coverage. So I pitched this story and really from there it was like, there was nothing else that was a priority other than, you know, getting coverage of the Red Stars and the Sky.
But the Sky at that time, Madeline Kenney was covering. And so that was 2019. Madeline Kenney was tapped to be the beat writer of the Sky. And obviously 2019 came before 2020, which changed the way we all cover sports teams and everything. So that contributed to, I think, why it wasn't done in the same way we're doing now, obviously. But when 2020 was coming to a close and the 2021 season was upon us, our sports editor reached out and asked me to take over the Sky beat.
And so from that moment on, I think it was just a lot of conversations internally about doing things at the same standard we're doing when covering the men's teams. And they weren't always easy conversations. Like, I didn't have these conversations and it just was like, yes, Annie, you know, we're gonna do it this way. It took some prodding, but ultimately, you know, I'm thankful that I work for a paper that sees the value in covering women's sports the same way as men's sports. And again, it hasn't always been that way, but right now, that is the standard we're living by. And I don't see that changing. You know, this is setting a precedent that this is how we cover the Sky and will cover the Sky.
Lindsay: I'm assuming it's ended up being beneficial for the paper. I don't know how privy you are to those conversations or how much you know about that stuff. But like, with the Sky doing well, I mean, we know that papers don't usually stick to stuff if it’s not good for them overall. But at the beginning, wasn't there something about someone coming into sponsor the beat reporter position?
Annie: Yeah. And I'm glad you're bringing this up, because this has been kind of like a sensitive subject for me because, you know, I've heard…And I don't wanna, you know, put this person on blast, but I had a source tell me that there was a person within the Sky organization telling people that he was paying for Sky coverage. And that completely wasn't true. Our Sky coverage originally was sponsored by the University of Chicago. And the University of Chicago obviously is a Chicago Sky sponsor as well. But that sponsorship ended I believe after one year. Our coverage is not sponsored by them anymore. So when I heard that, not only was I bothered because our coverage is not sponsored anymore, but also because I think it should be perceived as a positive that, yes, at one point this was a sponsored content, but that helped establish the beat to a place where it doesn't need to be sponsored.
So we shouldn't be frowning upon something that maybe some would perceive as a negative thing when ultimately it's led to, you know, this team being covered, again, the same way we cover men's sports teams. And maybe I'm like a whatever the saying is, a blind-eyed optimist? I don't know what the saying is, but too optimistic. But I didn't see that as a negative thing, to have it sponsored at one point.
Lindsay: I didn't either, and I'm completely on the outside and I thought it was creative and unique. Now, it would've been, I think, if it had been directly the team sponsoring it, you know what I mean? There's definitely some ethical concerns there, right?
Annie: Exactly. Right.
Lindsay: But it wasn't, it wasn't at all. And also if you read the coverage that you do and that Madeline did before you, and I think Madeline was the beat reporter when it was directly sponsored, it never seemed like there was a hesitancy to be critical when it needs to be critical. Like, you know, you've always been really good at not just reporting the happy go lucky stories, but reporting the tough stories just like you would if it was a men's team as well. And you know, as we've done at Power Plays, a lot of covering the coverage rankings and things like that. And, you know, the Tribune has always struggled covering women's sport. Although it's getting better, and we do see them now picking up their own Sky beat reporting coverage, which I have to say…And I don't know if you can directly connect this. I mean, I'm sure it's related to the Sky’s success, but also probably in having a competitor have a dedicated beat reporter, right? These things breed one another, like, they breed a larger ecosystem.
Annie: Yeah. I mean, It's hard for me to comment directly how our work, you know, impacts like the way other organizations in Chicago are covering the Sky. All I can really say about that is like, this is my job. I'm living my dream. This is what I've always wanted to do and I'm doing it. Whatever happens as a result of that, happens. But like, the Chicago Sky are a professional sports team. That just won a championship, and could win another. As far as jobs go, what else is a dream for a sports reporter other than to cover moments like these? And so I think that, yeah, this is a huge turning point. I hope it is for the way coverage of women's sports happens in Chicago. You know, I hope in 10 years, it looks vastly different, but as far as today goes, I'm just doing my job. I get paid to do this.
Lindsay: Amazing. And I know you can't comment directly on it, but I'm just opining on what I see from the outside, you know, from tracking the numbers here. Okay. Last question: what’s a favorite memory from covering the championship?
Annie: Oh, my gosh. So easy. And this is so funny, because I've gotten asked about this recently. First of all, when I was a little kid, I used to watch the championship floats, and I never thought like, ooh, I wanna go to one of those. I thought, ooh, I wanna be on one of those. Like, gosh, I wonder what's happening on the bus. That was always my thought when I was little. So during the finals, I was just nonstop reaching out to the Sky, asking, hey, if the championship is won and there's a parade, could I cover from the vantage point of like the bus? You know, would that be possible? So when they finally do win it, you know, the day of, we're getting kind of the security talk, and they're just advising us on the parade route. And they tell this bus that I'm on, which included Courtney Vandersloot, Allie Quigley, Candace Parker and Diamond DeShields, and I think Azurá Stevens were on our bus. They said, at this certain point in the route, you all need to sit down because you're gonna go under a bridge. He's like, we don't want anyone ducking. We just want you to sit down. He's like, it's not for two miles down, so don't worry about it right away.
So, once we get started, I'm like, great. I'm gonna turn my back to the route and snap pictures, get videos, you know, talk to players about this moment. We’re coming around the first corner, literally not even five minutes into the parade, and I'm snapping pictures and videos, not paying attention. And I'm hearing someone like screaming my name, and I'm like, who could be screaming my name? I'm looking around. Courtney is like a couple rows back. She's yelling my name. She's like, duck! Duck your head! So without even thinking, you know, without questioning Courtney Vandersloot, I duck. And as I duck, I'm like looking to what I'm ducking from. And there was a stoplight that was hanging lower than it should have been that, had I not ducked right then, would’ve completely taken me out. And I'm not saying I would've died necessarily, but I for sure would've cracked my head open and stopped the entire championship parade–
Lindsay: Oh my god.
Annie: –just as it was getting started.
Lindsay: So Courtney Vandersloot is your hero.
Annie: Courtney Vandersloot saved my life. So when I come up, then Allie just looks at me and goes, “Courtney just saved your life.” And then Courtney goes, “I don't just make assists on the court.”
Lindsay: No, she did not say that!
Annie: I swear it. She absolutely did.
Lindsay: She did not!
Annie: And I'm not saying if she would remember, but she said that.
Lindsay: That's incredible. We might have to fact check that one. [laughs] I love it.
Annie: Yeah. I mean, bring it up to her, but she absolutely did.
Lindsay: I love it.
Annie: I think the exit interview, I'm like, you know, thank you for saving my life. And she's like, what? I'm like, remember the stoplight? She's like, oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. Like to her, it was like nothing significant. To me, I was like, this would've ruined the entire day of celebration for the Sky's first championship.
Lindsay: All right. Thank you so much, Annie. It has been so great to talk to you to get the real story behind the scenes from All Star weekend. And I know you have exciting news. You're gonna be traveling with the team the rest of the season, right?
Annie: Yeah. We are traveling the rest of the season. So, it’s already begun. We started a couple weeks ago. So the first road trip I went on was to LA and Vegas. And again, yeah, we'll be traveling the rest of the season. So we've got another west coast road trip coming up to LA and Dallas and, you know, it's definitely helped our coverage. I was able to ask Allie Quigley about the three point contest and her participation in it in Minnesota. So, you know, it definitely changes your coverage when you're there every day.
Lindsay: There's really absolutely no substitute for full-time beat reporting. Like, there's just nothing. You know, we need it across sports, across papers, more of it, more of it. But you and the Sun-Times are very much bringing it back in the W. And where can people follow you?
Annie: You guys can follow me on Twitter at @AnnieCostabile. It's the same on Instagram. My Instagram's a little bit more personal. I don't really post a ton of Sky news on Instagram, but that's where you guys can follow me. And you also could subscribe to the Sun-Times if you have the means and aren't interested, you know, like I said, like Lindsay said, we cover the Sky every day, even in the offseason. So if you're interested in reading about the WNBA and the Chicago Sky, definitely hit us with a subscription. We appreciate it all.
Lindsay: It's worth it. Do they track where the subscriptions come from? If people subscribe through one of your articles, can they tell? How can we help you the most? [laughs]
Annie: You know what? I don't know, Lindsay, that's a good question. I need to ask our marketing team if that's something that they are able to track.
Lindsay: I always just like to ask, because if we can let people know that we're subscribing in particular because of their women's sports coverage, we'd love to say that.
Annie: For the stats. Yeah, I think a good way to do that is to send emails and to send tweets and to tag us in anything that you post about why you're subscribing. I know a lot of our readers on Twitter send in their messages after reading stories, and that's so appreciated. So, I mean, I think going directly to the source about what you want more of is valuable. That stuff gets read and seen and contributes to why things happen at media outlets.
Lindsay: Absolutely. Thanks again, Annie.
Annie: Thanks so much for having me on. Truly, one of my favorite podcasts. I was like, so amped.
Lindsay: And thanks so much for listening to this week's episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. And Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. You can follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Listen, subscribe and rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play, TuneIn, probably a million other places, wherever you prefer to listen to podcasts. We have show links and transcripts at our website, burnitalldownpod.com, and there's a link to merch at our Bonfire store at burnitalldownpod.com.
We are supported by our patrons. If you wanna become a sustaining donor to Burn It All Down, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. I think for as little as like $2 a month you can really help keep this project going. Remember, we are on summer break and we'll just be dropping interview episodes for the next few weeks, and we'll be back with regular episodes in mid August. Burn on, but not out.