Interview: Evan Whitfield, VP of Equity for Chicago Fire FC, on DEI in the MLS

In this episode, Brenda Elsey interviews Evan Whitfield, former Chicago Fire FC defender as the new VP of Equity, Alumni and Engagement for the club. They discuss Chicago Fire FC's DEI programming efforts in the club and in the city of Chicago, the need for more bilingual MLS websites and why jobs like his are important.

This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our social media and website specialist. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network.

Transcript

Brenda: Welcome to Burn It All Down. It's the feminist sports podcast you need. I'm Brenda Elsey, and this week I get to do the interview, and I have with me Evan Whitfield, who has been working on issues of equity in soccer for quite a while now, and he recently has joined the Chicago Fire as vice president of equity. He is a founding member of SCORE. He is a former player. We're gonna get into all that. Evan, welcome. I am so excited to have you on the show.

Evan: Thank you so much. I am really excited to be on your show. I've been a big fan of the pod for a while now, and I love the episodes. I love the perspective. So thank you so much. 

Brenda: So, let's just start with a little bit about your own biography in soccer. Sometimes we call it football on the show. [laughs] We go back and forth.

Evan: Yeah. I go back and forth. Yeah. We're the Chicago Fire football club. So I feel like I should call it football, but it just depends on the audience, right? So I'll probably be saying soccer. It just seems more natural to me. 

Brenda: Totally fine. 

Evan: Yeah, no, I did play soccer in the US in all the levels, you know, youth, like everyone else, high school, and club, and ODP and collegiately at Duke, and then eventually made it to the pros, played for the Chicago Fire for a majority of my career, ’99 to ‘04. Prior to that, I played a little over half a season with Ghent in Belgium, and then I finished my career unceremoniously in Salt Lake City for RSL. You know, a few things of note that I'm really proud of, you know, my participation in the 2000 Olympics, and also the ’99 Pan Am games. But from the advocacy and equity side of things, I was one of the original members of the MLS players union, MLSPA today, and was on the executive board when we negotiated the first collective bargaining agreement in 2003.

Brenda: And you're also a lawyer, right? 

Evan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Brenda: I mean, so you're good at bargaining.

Evan: Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's my my learned skill. So yeah, after I stopped playing, I went to law school here in Chicago, went to DePaul, and went on to have a 14, 15 year-ish career as a divorce litigator, which was something interesting that I don't want to get too much into, because I'll have like a PTSD episode. 

Brenda: [laughs] Oh man. But you started over last year is getting, again, like revisiting some of the issues of equity and Black Lives Matter. Did you always, when you were growing up, was it very apparent to you that there was deep seated racism in soccer? 

Evan: Yeah. You know, I was particularly lucky. I mean, I'm from Glendale, Arizona. Maricopa County, Phoenix, Arizona. It's a pretty interesting place politically. It’s been that way forever. But my soccer experience was very unique in that my very first coach when I was in AYSO was South African. And he was, you know, at the time what they call a colored man who had left South Africa and moved to Phoenix, of all places. And he was mixed like I am. So I'm biracial also. So it was really neat to finally have met someone like you, right, that is doing the thing that you like to do. So, you know, learning at five or six years old, where, what is South Africa? What is apartheid? What is going on? Like, all those things were conversations that we had, and kind of bringing in the topic of our current Supreme Court, even, you know, the Loving case from, I think it was ’71 or something. You know, my parents having met prior to that, right? Something that we always kind of discussed, right? So, you know, why are there no Black people in Arizona? [laughs] Why is there such a large, you know, Latino, Mexican American population in Phoenix, but then we don't see them, right? So, those questions just kind of came up naturally.

Brenda: And it's kind of interesting, because today when we work together on a report about the state of representation of Latinx and African American players, one thing that's really striking is even though there's this idea of the “soccer mom” or soccer family in the United States, which is coded as very white, the players themselves for the national team, for MLS, for NWSL is an incredibly diverse sport, racially. 

Evan: Yeah. 

Brenda: Was it always that way? Did you remember it always being that way? 

Evan: No. I mean, I think that, you know, again, just growing up, there was one other Black person on my teams growing up. It was our superficially very noticeably Black person on our team. And of course everyone in the sidelines…And again, this is the 80s and 90s. So the parents were, I dunno if they're more or less well behaved, but anyway, there was always a lot of interactions, and people always assumed that my dad was John's dad. 

Brenda: Oh, okay. 

Evan: There was a lot of like accidentally heard purposefully intentionally racist language, right? So, the lack of Black people was around, right? And my dad comes from a family of 13 kids, and being Black dairy farmers back in the 40s was very unique. So yeah. And if you watched the national teams, like 1990 World Cup, that team was pretty white, right? So, I think my high schools, my club teams were all very white. So yeah, it was something that I think was obvious in American sport. It's not until you go to other countries, right? So I was lucky enough to travel to South America starting at 10 years old. And there is when you really see the difference, right? You see all of the players being of, you know, different hues and darker complected. And then you see, you know, the things that you and I like to talk about, all the managers and coaches and whatnot, agents all being white, right? And that was a big thing.

You know, my club coach Luis Dabo, who passed away this last year, was from Guinea Bissau. And he played for Benfica in the 60s. And he was a very, very dark complected man. And again, he was very outspoken about that. I think America is unique in that we have, I don't know, whitewashed the sport, so to speak, right? But now with the professional game growing and growing, growing on the men's and women's side, we're seeing the contrast that you're talking about, with the players being more of color.

Brenda: And it's exciting because it also indicates the internationalization of the sport in the US, right? I mean, the dominance of Brazil forever and ever means that it's always been a sport where the very idea of excellence is not necessarily associated with whiteness, right? But in fact, like Pelé like 1958, right? 

Evan: Right. Eusébio 

Brenda: Exactly. So, it's an exciting time. And so, on that note, I wanna ask you, so, you decided to stop being in your law profession. 

Evan: Yes. [laughs]

Brenda: Where you work. And you've made this pretty big move. And I think there's been, you know, a lot of calls for your type of position, a type of position that, you know, addresses head-on issues of equity. So I wonder if you could just explain to listeners why you did that, what it is, you know, the kind of concreteness of it.

Evan: Yeah. I mean, it was…It almost sounds like trite now, right? Like, the pandemic occurred, and I was not billing a zillion hours a week, and the courts were closed, and I had dinner with my family for the first time in however many years, [laughter] and that was…Awful things, right? So, that space that I was afforded by the pandemic was really a catalyst just for wanting to do…Really, I mean, missing the sports that I had been playing for so long. And then of course, you know, George Floyd in the summer of 2020. But you know, in Chicago…You know, Chicago is a very racially charged city, and we had McDonald, I think in 2016, and I mean, there's so many lethal policing incidences and the…You know, there was our current mayor Lightfoot, prior to her stint as mayor, was the head of like the investigation into the rampant systemic racism within the CPD.

So, that space created by the pandemic, my background and skill set as a litigator and professional advocate. And then reaching out to people during the pandemic via Zoom, right? Which is like this weird phenomenon. And getting back in touch with, you know, Eddie Pope, Cobi Jones, DaMarcus Beasley, you know, Danielle Slaton, Kim Crabbe, Tony Sanneh, right? All these old colleagues and some new friends that I had known about but never met, right? And we were very much inspired by, you know, Black Players For Change that got on it very quickly, right? I'm very inspired by their action. But you know, we're sitting there on these Zooms…Ali Curtis, right? All these very, very prominent Black soccer players who had the most amazing careers – represented the country, scored the first goals in the MLS Cup finals, you know, like vanguard, pioneer status people with amazing resumes. Oguchi Onyewu, right? And none of us involved at equivalently high levels that you would expect from our backgrounds, right?

And like, you know, you hear people say, past performance as an indicator for future performance. And if that's true, all of these champions that I was seeing again, why aren't they excelling in the ways that they want to excel, right? They've all done quite well, but not in the space they want to do, right? Those things and, you know, coming together with SCORE – Soccer Collective On Racial Equity – which was, you know, this loose confederation of us individuals who came together and supported Black Players For Change, and directly interfaced with Don Garber, Commissioner Garber of Major League Soccer. And, you know, we wrote a demand letter and demanded increased representation for Black and brown people and women in the sport, which at the time had never had a Black executive in its 26 year history. Shockingly. Or not, depending on how cynical you are. [laughs]

But you know, being part of that and getting the response from the league and the commissioner and helping and instigating the hiring of MLS’s first Black executive, Sola Winley, to the, you know, the diversity, equity and inclusion position there on the executive team. It was really rewarding, right? And then of course, meeting people like yourself, like Piara Powar at Fare Network, different people at Common Goal. And it was exactly like what I did as a divorce lawyer, which was advocating for an individual, but like, you know, being part of a community and working towards fairness and equity in the space that I love was just super desirable. And I couldn't find a reason to go back to my prior existence, right? Regardless of the, you know, status or financial differences in it. And was lucky enough to, through my, you know, work with you and Common Goal, kind of reconnect really with the soccer world in this space, and be a person who was sought after in that. And then that led me to the Chicago Fire role.

Brenda: And so what is your position right now at the Chicago Fire? Can you explain it?

Evan: Yeah. So, I'm the vice president of equity, alumni relations and engagement, which is three very, very different things. You know, the alumni relations is straightforward. The Fire, we have amazing alumni. Stoichkov, Schweinsteiger. Jesse Marsch, the coach of Leeds. Chris Armas was at Manchester United. We have a very, very long list of really amazing alumni. And we were just doing a really bad job of keeping in touch with them. So I know a lot of those guys, I played with a lot of them. So, I've just created an alumni network, right? And we're just building that out, and it's our 25th anniversary season, so we're having a big party on October 8th and flying everybody in. So I'm like spearheading the logistics for all of that. Yeah. So that's cool.

And then the engagement piece is…And this is, you know, something that we can get into that's important, like, where should DEI sit in your organizational chart? I sit underneath the SVP of community relations, Paul Cadwell, who's an outstanding person, a real ally and advocate. So I'm lucky to be there. But I work with him very closely. And the director of our foundation, Jessica Yavitz, in community engagement and civic engagement around our infrastructure projects. We're trying to build a performance center for the first team. And then we do a ton of, you know, field building and things like that. But I think the different…I’ll just plug Chicago Fire a little bit, brag on ‘em. The one thing that is a little bit different is that we do provide an intense amount of programming, right? And I think that so many people wanna do an infrastructure project because it's tangible and it's sexy and they can put their brand on it. But I won't say it's useless, but it doesn't reach its maximum potential if there's no programming on it.

Brenda: And by programming, you mean what?

Evan: We have this thing called the PLAYS program, which is social, emotional learning through football, right? So, this is coaching, CPS public school teachers about how to be a coach, because they maybe don’t know a lot about soccer, but relying on their professional teaching skills, which is a thing. And also, well, I'm married to a teacher, so a lot of people I think have under appreciation for teachers. So I just have to say that.

Brenda: Agree. Strong agree, as a teacher.

Evan: [laughs] And using, you know, their connections with the children in those areas, right? And, you know, CPS has a residency requirement for their teachers. So, you know, it's not us just coming in here and, you know, playing the savior. We’re trying to amplify the people who are already doing work in the communities, and then just adding and supplementing to their programming. So we're in…I think we're about 50 schools, 50 Chicago public schools. We also currently just this month, as part of our outreach to the near west side ABLA homes where we're attempting to lease this land to build our performance center, we provided three weeks of free soccer camp for children there. And we also employed as counselors local youth. 

Brenda: And that's a heavily Latinx area, no? I mean, I lived on Western and Fullerton, so I'm trying to think if you think of that as near west? Or do you mean…

Evan: So, I'm very specifically talking about Roosevelt between Roosevelt and 15th Avenue, and then Loomis and Ashland. So, just east of that is all Latino, a hundred percent, Latinx. But just west of that, like west of Loomis, is all Black.

Brenda: Yeah. Oh, so that's a really important area to be in, space to occupy.

Evan: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And it's a traditional demographic, Latinx, that, you know, everyone already acknowledges is into soccer, right? But I would say is underserved still. And then this Black community which I think people wrongly think of as a monolith, and say, oh, Black people don't play soccer. But that's not true. We all, like we just said earlier, tons of Black people play soccer in and around America.

Brenda: And there's ton of Afro Latinx people. I mean, you’ve got–

Evan: African, Afro Latinx, yes. Yes.

Brenda: Huge Puerto Rican community over there, you know, huge diasporic populations. Yeah. That's an exciting place to be though. I can see how people would really love that idea, of giving these kids structured…

Evan: Yeah, no, for sure. And I guess now I'm getting to the what I do, because you asked me the question, what do I do? You know, it's a brand new role. I think that only one other MLS team has a position like mine that's dedicated to this, and I think it's St. Louis, which isn't even playing yet. But I would say that like representation matters, right? Like, they are majority woman led organization, right? So I feel like it only makes sense that they're the other group that has created this space or thinks that's relevant or important. But anyway, so what do I do? I am the owner of everything DEI for Chicago Fire. That is from the first team staff and players all the way down to our academy. Our front office employees, also like the strategic mission and vision and the operationalization of those things as far as DEI is concerned. 

Brenda: Why do you think DEI is important? You know, why do we need these positions?

Evan: I mean, the easy answer is like, it's the right thing to do. And that's a really good answer. I also think that, you know, representation matters, and I'm a real big believer in, like, I don't believe in like innateness, right? So, it's about practice, right? You're good at soccer because you practice. You're a good college professor because you practice, right? You may have like a predisposition for it or something like that, but you get better as you intentionally practice over time. And DEI is so important because our organizations, whether they be in sport or elsewhere in the United States, are overwhelmingly white and male, but it's a fact, right? And those people are not practiced in thinking about anyone other themselves.

And DEI is important because there is a person, preferably at a high level within the organization, who is making space either through lived experiences, or bringing in other people of color and different genders and different backgrounds and, you know, all of those rich diversity that we have in the human experience, and giving them space to be seen and also to be heard, and then also to influence the decisions that are made on a strategic level. Because again, soccer is a business. It's a massive business. And Major League Soccer, you know, wants to continue to grow and be a, you know, “major league,” which we are, but a global major league. And, you know, that comes through eyes on screens, revenue, TV deals, right? And all of that has to do with, you know, connecting to our consumer base, which is heavily, heavily non-white, right?

And then also, like you brought up in the beginning, connecting to the players. Like 55% of Major League Soccer is not white, right? So, coaches, trainers, psychological performance people who work, like, it's important to have people who can authentically connect with the athletes to help maximize their performance, right? So, it's morally right. It's right for the performance of the organization. And it should be the legally, you know, correct thing to do by compulsion, right? Not so much in the United States, I guess, but we are equal opportunity, but you know, we don't have anything like they do in Europe with like mandating of additional women to boards and things like that, right? 

Brenda: Like a quota system.

Evan: Right, right.

Brenda: One of the things that is just historically true is that unless you do something structurally to change the organization, then it just becomes a kind of motto, or it just stays the same. And it might be a blip, but there's not long term...Right? So like, investing in DEI, it feels like, yes, it's morally right, and you know, financially or business minded right. But it also, unless you think that there’s...Well, we think that the sport of soccer should bring something in terms of social capital and cultural capital to the world, right? Like, what do you do with all the passion and the love that people have for that? Like, you have to be able to harness that into something, right? [laughs] I mean, and it's so often harnessed into perpetuating the status quo where actually retrograde in terms of, you know, sexual orientation, racism, like, this is just…It can be really depressing. But I think that if more people understood DEI, I would hope that they would see it as this no brainer. 

Evan: Yeah. No, I agree with you. 

Brenda: I don't know. I would hope.

Evan: Yeah. When you said structurally, there's like a quote – whoever it was tweeted to is not certain, so if anyone's listening, you email and say I stole this, but I stole this, like most things. [laughs] And it's like, systems are designed for the results that they get. And again, you know, I'm arguably…It’s summertime and I've been outside a lot, but I'm arguably a white passing individual, and definitely in certain spaces, right? In a courtroom with a suit on, and you know, not having seen the sun in nine months. And I guess I'm saying that because I feel like I do have some perspective here. A lot of white people think that things are the way they are because they naturally are that way, and there's nothing further from the truth, right? Like, we are where we are at today because of specific choices and policies, whether explicitly or implicitly, were designed to stratify the population, you know, in the context of colonialism and slavery and all these things, right? So like, why you see whatever the percentages are of Fortune 500 companies with white men leading them, that’s not because they're all the best.

Brenda: Yes. [laughter] I mean, absolutely. I mean, the idea that there's fairness…I mean, here you are as like a VP of equity, right? I mean, that's like an impossible job. You will never create that, but you are working towards it, right? You are trying to adjust and to get closer. 

Evan: Right. Yeah, yeah. And I guess, you know, again, what do I do? A lot of it is either very directly or circuitously influencing people into why structures are important, or just letting them recognize that the world is not this way because everyone that looks like you is the best. So just like starting there. And, you know, we talk a lot about meeting people where they're at in this kind of work, right? And then like education and things like that. But, you know, I go back and forth between accepting that and then challenging that a lot, because I do work with a lot of like highly accredited people who should know better, right? So, it's one of those things that you would say in like a deposition, like, are you lying to me, or are you just stupid? You tell me, right? Either answer's very bad. [laughter] And I don't use that…I mean, I'm using that on the podcast, of course. But like, I don't use that often–

Brenda: To their face.

Evan: In people's faces at meetings. But like, a lot of times I'm thinking that. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, how…You know, like of course we have to have intentional policies and procedures to ensure or at least like aspirationally get to equity, right? 

Brenda: Absolutely. 

Evan: And that starts in hiring, right? And where you're sourcing your people and how you're writing your job descriptions and how inclusive is the language. And again, you know, I do a lot of like anti-Black racism equity work. But like, when I'm talking about this as a VP of equity, I'm talking about everyone. Underrepresented groups, right? So, if you're an underrepresented group, which typically is someone who's not male and not white, or not educated, or not wealthy, right? Or from a privileged background. These policies are designed to be inclusive and welcoming and, you know, gather up at least the opportunity for people who may not otherwise have had them to be seen, whether it's in a position to be hired or what have you. 

Brenda: Right. Most people are underrepresented in structures of power. Most people. The vast majority of people is who you're describing.

Evan: Right!

Brenda: You know, the idea by using the term minority, people's vision is created through words like that, and they have this image that like, oh, you're just privileging this very small group of people. And it's like, no, no, no, no. [laughs] It’s a very small group of people have been privileged, and it's all those other people that you're talking about that belong. 

Evan: I would love to know like the etymology of that phrasing. Maybe I should know that already. But like, to say that the majority is the majority is such a like, you know, Orwellian thing, right? I mean, the global majority is not white. Like, sometimes I use that and people are like, what are you talking about? And there's all those like studies and things like if you put a picture of, you know, 10 by 10 of faces, and you put a spattering of Black faces in there and, you know, white and Black people will overrepresent the number of those peoples, right? So like, you know, we live in Chicago and I've asked people this anecdotally in different times of my life, like, how many Black people do you think live in Chicago? Like, what's the percentage? They're like, “60, 70%?” You know? And I’m like, well, what do you think nationally? “I don’t know, 50%?” And I'm like, geez Louise, people, it's like 12, 13% nationally. And it's like 30, 31% in Cook County, you know? So, yeah. I don't know. Sorry. It's like an aside.

Brenda: But I don't think…I mean, part of the problem, I think, is that when you use terms like structure or systemic or things like that, people's brains turn off. Like, they start to think that's math or something, and it's like, no, no, it's not. Like, this isn't hard, you know? [laughs] This is like, you know, like when you start to talk about an org chart and where DEI fits within sports in a particular org chart and why that matters, that is something really easy to grasp. And yet, as soon as you use “structure, system, organization,” people are like, ahh! You know, I just love my football. [Evan laughs] And so one of the things that I hate the most is when people go to Twitter and say, “We live in a broken system.” And you say no, no, no, no. This is working exactly how it was designed to work. 

Evan: Correct. 

Brenda: Which is to…You know, MLS had been hitherto designed in a particular way to model itself after other leagues in the United States, because it is not modeled off of a European or a South American type of soccer club.

Evan: No, not at all. 

Brenda: Right. So you're really pushing against the kind of weight of history where it's already been designed like this. And so when you're describing that, I just appreciate how difficult it is to go against that tide. 

Evan: It is, it’s a Herculean task. And that's why if teams don't have this position that is independently paid and staffed and with its own space within the org chart, you know that they're likely being performative, right? A lot of like HR people are doing this, or just the Black or brown or woman employee who's doing it extra on the side because they love it so much, right? 

Brenda: Right. Right. We love unpaid labor, right? [laughter]

Evan: Yeah. Right. It's so profitable. [laughter] Where am I supposed to make the margins, Brenda? Come on. [laughter] But you know, the Fire, again, and kudos to them and our president Ishwara Glassman Chrein and our SVP Paul Cadwell, you know, for recognizing the need and making the space. Making the space, and more important paying for it. That's number one, right? Like, I feel like that's a really easy differentiator between, like, is the club you're supporting performative in their DEI efforts? Or are they attempting to be substantive? Well, do they even pay somebody to do this? Okay.

Brenda: It's a good barometer. 

Evan: Yeah. But then talking about like the complexity of the problem…And that's why I say it takes more than just me. Like, right now I'm a staff of one person, which is, you know, I won't get any trouble saying that it's inadequate. I need more people. But thankfully there are people within the organization that feel that this is very important and are willing to do that extra emotional labor and physical labor, right? So, you know, we have people who, you know, the player care staff for our academy, right? You know, participating in Major League Soccer's culture coaching program, which is a new program that Tony Sanneh at The Sanneh Foundation have put on through Major League Soccer, and then incorporating DEI not as like the fifth element of their curriculum, but incorporating aspects of DEI into each curriculum of topic that they're doing.

For the coaches, just more direct training, saying like, hey, don't assume all your players are heterosexual, right? Like, try to disincentivize or dissuade, like, hyper-masculine, sexual conversations in the locker room, right? And make space for LGBTQ+ athletes. And if you don't do that, then that is part of your performance review, and you, you know, may not have a job here. You may be put on a performance plan, right? And then, you know, working with HR to do trainings, like, you know, implicit bias and pronoun trainings for the employees, right? You know, we're bringing in a consultant, Chris Gibbons next week to work with the executive team on the importance of inclusive leadership and DEI and these things. So, yes, it's complicated, but it's not so complicated where, you know, we should feel apathy, right? Or hopelessness.

Brenda: Oh, totally. Yeah. No, no, you never feel that. Yeah.

Evan: Well, no, I know you don't think that, but I think that's such an easy out for people, right? “This is way too complicated. It's gonna be too expensive. It's gonna take too much time.” So I like to say, actually, totally solvable. We can do it quickly – if you want to, right? [laughs]

Brenda: If you want to.

Evan: If you want to, it can be done quickly. You know, I'll just give an example, again, like, under the idea of like what it is that, that I do, right? And, you know, it's funny, because I even get that question from people I work with in the organization. Like, what are you doing all day? [laughter]

Brenda: And it's not questioning you personally. It's more like, for people…Because DEI has become such a hot button sort of like critical race theory, it’s become shrouded in this conversation. It’s like, so easy and helpful, I think, for people to just hear you and hear like what concrete things you're talking about, so that they aren't in this fantasy land of, you know, theory.

Evan: Yeah. And like, a super concrete thing, you know, in the northern suburbs of Chicago a few weeks ago, there was the Highland Park shooting. And it was awful. And this like, you know, highly affluent neighborhood suffered this awful trauma, and children were killed and left orphaned, and it was ridiculously awful. And in my position, I'm part of like the crisis communication team, right? And this would be a whole nother topic, you know, about like how involved should your sports club be in messaging? But, you know, this is something that people expected a message from, and they wanted to do things. And, you know, we have people in various roles who felt very impassioned about doing all sorts of stuff, very public and what have you.

And like, again, a very simple thing that I do is in that conversation that we had, saying, hey, totally agree with everything here. We really should do things and help and whatnot and message. However, before we do that, I just want to remind everybody that more people were killed in the city of Chicago that very weekend, and there was a kid of a similar age orphaned and, you know, left maimed and all these awful things. And we neglected to do anything about that, remember? So when you're talking about equity and fairness, just consistency of messaging. Let's not, by our actions, indicate to the city and our fans that we think some people are more important than others, right?  That's a conversation that, you know, you have to have a group of individuals who trust each other enough and who are open enough to have like difficult conversations, you know?

Same thing with like the invasion of Ukraine, right? The league very much allowing and people wanting to speak to that, right? And how far are clubs gonna go? Because people had very, very strong opinions. And again, same thing. I don't say playing devil's advocate, because I don't like that. I didn't play devil's advocate when I was an attorney. I'm just talking about another side of an issue, right? Not a bad side, just another side that's equally as important to somebody, right? And you know, MLS does have fan rules about political messaging in stadia and things like that, that, you know, may or may not be enforced. And again, I just come up with a hypothetical, like, if we're going to drape the Ukrainian flag all over a stadium, be prepared to be equally welcoming to Palestinian flags in the stadium. Sometimes people, you know, decision makers may not be comfortable with that. And if they're not, then they need to be equal in their treatment of those things. And maybe not allow any of them, or maybe allow all of them. 

Brenda: Well, or I think here, Black Lives Matter is like an excellent example of something that was frequently called political, that…Political in the US context makes people think of partisanship. And I think people have a tough time separating those issues. Black Lives Matter is a human rights movement, you know what I mean?

Evan: Yeah, no, no. 

Brenda: So, that gets you into a place, but I think if you always go to, I think, like issues of racial equality in the US, you're gonna find your compass in terms of what you do with the rest, right? 

Evan: Yeah, no, that's such an astute point, right? Because you know, one of the things that we try to do is frame things in a humanitarian lens, right? Like, you know, abortion rights is a humanitarian issue. Like, personal autonomy, right? Safety from being a refugee, whether from war or climate.

Brenda: Exactly. And it of course intersects with racial equity all the time. So we don't even need to usually like make the choices that the devil's advocate people want you to make.

Evan: A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you on that. And this podcast was worth it for many reasons, but just having that articulated helped. Thank you. [laughter] But then, you know, I'm really, really proud of our recent language accessibility work. 

Brenda: Yes. Talk about that. Can you explain a little bit…I know that I've taken up a lot of your time, but if you could just at least talk just a bit about that.

Evan: Yeah, no, I would love to. So, Major League Soccer has a very high proportion of Latinx fans and Spanish speaking fans, regardless of however you wanna categorize them, right? And that's known. Everybody knows that. Anyway, what we did was, you know, we have an idea council, which runs meetings for the employees. And it's a safe space where employees come to talk about their own things or worldly things or organizational things, right? And there's no managers there. It's just the employee level people. And, you know, one of the things that came up was, you know, the lack of language accessibility on our website, which made me go back to my desk afterwards and do that thing that people are saying, what are you doing all day? Is I just went on all 29 websites and looked to see if they had Spanish language tabs.

Of the 29 teams, about a third of them had Spanish language tabs, meaning you could go up to the navigation bar, hit Español or Spanish, and it would convert the website into Spanish. Most of those conversions are like adulterated versions of the English site. So, you know, maybe a third or a fifth of the content is there in Spanish, right? Maybe just, you know, like the press release or what have you. But anything you clicked on would take you back to an English language site. So the thing that I, again, from an organizational perspective, was looking at was ticket purchasing ability. So if you go to tickets – which says “tickets” on the Spanish site – and click it, it will take you to the English site that allows you to purchase tickets, you know? [Brenda laughs] 

And I asked a few people about why that was, and I got very similar answers being that well, you know, people who are able to get to the page have the wherewithal to get through it in English, which seems like, I guess, an acceptable answer, but strangely unacceptable to me, just from like an equity standpoint. And then also just like from a business standpoint, if you're trying to sell to somebody, if you're trying to take money from someone, shouldn't you make that as comfortable, like, isn't that what marketing's about? Like, as comfortable and–

Brenda: And excited, engaged, and ready to…Yeah.

Evan: Engaged and, yeah, facilitate this purchase, right? So, of the third of the teams that had some sort of Spanish, only two had the ability from beginning to end to purchase tickets in Spanish. And I believe that was Charlotte and Miami. 

Brenda: Honestly, every market is gonna have a pretty, you know, significant…New York, LA, right?

Evan: LA, they didn't have those things.

Brenda: Texas…

Evan: Right. Texas, Dallas, Austin, Houston. They didn't have it, which is absurd, right? So we talked about this, and I, you know, being a recovering attorney, I wrote a memo about it, and I shared it with our SVP of marketing and, you know, she was like, yeah, I totally agree. And then she let me in on some of the things that they were doing. And the Fire does a decent job, you know what I mean? Like, we do a pretty good job. But so, you know, talking with the SVP of marketing, having these idea council meetings, and then sharing that memo with the employees who thought it was important on their own without, you know, management oversight. Employees came together, worked across apartments, and made our website on the ticketing aspect functional in Spanish from beginning to end.

Now, we don't have a hundred percent, you know, translated website, every piece of content, but we are the third team in MLS to have the ability to purchase tickets in Spanish, which I'm very proud of, and our website content is growing in Spanish. And now we're looking at ways of, you know, enshrining that change into a sustainable change, which means staffing it and putting resources towards it, right? So that's like a huge, huge win for us. It's great for our fans who are largely Spanish speaking. And you know, I'm excited to see in the next, you know, by the end of the year to, you know, do the analysis and see how much more engagement we had, and things like that, right?

And again, I would argue that we will have more engagement, which would be more ticket prices, regardless of how good or bad the team is, you know? And then another thing that was really, really interesting when I was reviewing the websites, Montreal has an amazing website in French, which makes sense. They also have a tab for English, and when you click their English tab, it is 100% comprehensively in English, which I found to be really, really enlightening, because they know…You know, and I'll be tough on us English speakers. I don't speak any other languages, unfortunately. It’s all my own fault. [laughs] But English speakers, they're communicating how important they are by saying, you know what? We are giving you equal access to our content in English. And you know, that difference with the English speaking teams not doing the same for Spanish speaking people was telling to me. And I didn't wanna be a part of that, right?

Brenda: Yeah. And I mean, the question is not if they can read English, right? Or if you can read, but rather you wanna excite people. You also, a lot of times, people like to keep up and use football and soccer as a way to like maintain community, and the idea that the Mexican American community has enjoyed speaking Spanish. A lot of times there's an assumption that, well, if they can speak English, why on earth would they speak Spanish? And it's like, you know, it's a nice language to… [laughter] Like, some people just voluntarily want to speak in that language. It's not just a functional question. So, it's great. And it sounds like you did it quickly and cheaply, and so, like, why not?

Evan: Right. Why not? Why not? And I would imagine…Because we do like DEI collective calls on the league level, and I don't believe in like gatekeeping and ownership and things. So, very much shared this little win with everyone. And I would imagine you'll see around the league, you know, again, to those teams that are substantively interested in DEI initiatives, you'll see changes. Because again, it's not that hard, right? But I also wanted to say about the fact that like people who speak a language, they enjoy speaking the language. Again, I don't have that ability. I haven't learned that. But I was talking to a colleague and a friend who is born from a native speaking family who then didn't really transfer the language and then he lost the language. And he didn't like lose it, but like, he doesn't sound like a native speaker any longer. And it was a really personal story, and I was really happy that he shared it with me, because it gave me a perspective I had never had before, right? And what you just said, like, having spaces where you would use your Spanish routinely…

Brenda: It's exciting. It's exciting. I take my children to schools around Latin America and shove them into like Spanish school, [laughter] and they hate it. But I mean, you know, it's a great opportunity for me. Like, you know, I have Fubo on in Spanish all day long, and they may not love it, but it’s an opportunity. It's a good ecosphere. 

Evan: Yeah. And again, what I think about in DEI work, because I've, you know, being mixed, I feel like I've been on both sides of this. Like, I have felt very much included in things, energized by things being made for me, and I've also felt very excluded in times in my life where things were like readily known not to be made for me. And that first feeling is a zillion times better than that second feeling. And not to be cheesy about it, but like, I want to be able to spread that feeling to people. Like, when they talk about inclusion at work and performance and things like that, like, if you have that feeling, you're going to be better doing whatever it is that you're doing, whether you're the administrative assistant or the performance coach or the player or the marketing person or the ticket seller, right? So yeah, it feels good to be accepted and understood and wanted and engaged with. Again, this is very human, right? This is just like a very human thing. 

Brenda: It's very basic. But I do think it's important, and I just wanna wrap up by thanking you once again, and just reiterating that I think if more organizations had solid footing in terms of what an equity executive can bring, what a DEI strategy can bring, there would be much more openness and priority placed on it, or at least that's my most hopeful version of myself, [laughter] I'm thinking, is that I hope…I think it will beget other positions. I hope your position will beget other positions, both within the Fire but also more broadly in NWSL and MLS, because of what we know to be a system that has not had great representation. 

Evan: Yeah, no, I agree with you, and there's a big selfish aspect to this too, you know, like, I want job security, because if I have to go back to being a divorce lawyer, I don't know if I could manage that. [laughter] So, I'm motivated to make this work.

Brenda: Well, I'm glad that for so many reasons you've taken this position, and we wish you the best of luck on Burn It All Down. Thank you so much, Evan Whitfield, for being with us. 

Evan: Thank you so much, Brenda. 

Brenda: So that's it for this episode of Burn It All Down. This episode was produced by Tressa Versteeg. Shelby Weldon is our web and social media wizard. Burn It All Down is part of the Blue Wire podcast network. You can follow Burn It All Down on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Listen, subscribe and rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Play and TuneIn. For show links and transcripts, check out our website, burnitalldownpod.com. You'll also find links to our merch at our Bonfire store. And thank you to our patrons. Your support means the world. If you wanna become a sustaining donor to our show, visit patreon.com/burnitalldown. I'm Brenda Elsey, and on behalf of all of my wonderful co-hosts, burn on and not.